Masterful Boxers who could bang (boxer-puncher)

Not every skilled boxer gets on their bicycle to win.

And if it has become a thing of the past, that doesn't negate the two-tier skillset that IMO makes the best kind of fighting style to employ: aka boxer-puncher.

Salvador Sanchez very skilled, accurate, rarely wasted punches- but didnt run from a fight.

Evander Holyfield well rounded Olympian with accuracy, precision, timing and distance, but if you wanted to fight him- he'd oblige.

Meldrick Taylor, could throw punches in bunches from every angle body to head. Unfortunately his bangers mentality took him to the brink with JCC which ended his career prematurely. (decision mentally broke him down as well) Taylor was beautiful to watch when throwing, Most fighters who throw as fast & as many as he did--- were unorthodox. Not Meldrick: he threw textbook shots by the bunche-just in an avdanced way.

James Toney- Slips, dips, fights at an angle, accurate as hell, but still loved to slug.

I'm not sure if today's boxers overall have the boxer-puncher mentality.

IMO-Pre 1960's most fighters were crude and fought that way.

1970-1990s the majority of fighters began to master the art of hitting and not getting hit- but when they did--these boxers could & would punch it out.


2000-present More and more boxers are looking to survive, make money or pick up a trinket belt without wanting to unify their division. The learn a part of the craft.
& More so today then ever before.... fights don't occur because of haggling for $$$.
Pricing themelves out of a fight.<<<--boxer-punchers IMO don't have that mentality.

Boxers with the bangers mentality, don't get caught up like that because they chase glory, the money follows.

Today however fighters chase $$$, while running from a fight. And if the contract is signed, they may run during the fight, clinch to survive and not to set traps. <<(especially todays HW's)

Today-They might either be a great boxer or a devastating puncher, but fewer fighters today embody both: The style & mentality of the boxer-puncher

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Not every skilled boxer gets on their bicycle to win.

And if it has become a thing of the past, that doesn't negate the two-tier skillset that IMO makes the best kind of fighting style to employ: aka boxer-puncher.

Salvador Sanchez very skilled, accurate, rarely wasted punches- but didnt run from a fight.

Evander Holyfield well rounded Olympian with accuracy, precision, timing and distance, but if you wanted to fight him- he'd oblige.

Meldrick Taylor, could throw punches in bunches from every angle body to head. Unfortunately his bangers mentality took him to the brink with JCC which ended his career prematurely. (decision mentally broke him down as well) Taylor was beautiful to watch when throwing, Most fighters who throw as fast & as many as he did--- were unorthodox. Not Meldrick: he threw textbook shots by the bunche-just in an avdanced way.

James Toney- Slips, dips, fights at an angle, accurate as hell, but still loved to slug.

I'm not sure if today's boxers overall have the boxer-puncher mentality.

IMO-Pre 1960's most fighters were crude and fought that way.

1970-1990s the majority of fighters began to master the art of hitting and not getting hit- but when they did--these boxers could & would punch it out.


2000-present More and more boxers are looking to survive, make money or pick up a trinket belt without wanting to unify their division. The learn a part of the craft.
& More so today then ever before.... fights don't occur because of haggling for $$$.
Pricing themelves out of a fight.<<<--boxer-punchers IMO don't have that mentality.

Boxers with the bangers mentality, don't get caught up like that because they chase glory, the money follows.

Today however fighters chase $$$, while running from a fight. And if the contract is signed, they may run during the fight, clinch to survive and not to set traps. <<(especially todays HW's)

Today-They might either be a great boxer or a devastating puncher, but fewer fighters today embody both: The style & mentality of the boxer-puncher

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A fine post my friend I think you hit the nail on the head.:)

Sugar Ray Robinson
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Shane Mosley

Those guys could flash the speed and skill but when they needed to slug it out they'd slug it out.

Pernell Whitaker got a lot of knockdowns late in fight because of his body punching, note I said knock downs and not knock outs.

Mike McCallum obviously did the same with his body punching and was the first fighter to stop Watson and knock out Curry with one punch but overall he was not a puncher.

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Not every skilled boxer gets on their bicycle to win.

And if it has become a thing of the past, that doesn't negate the two-tier skillset that IMO makes the best kind of fighting style to employ: aka boxer-puncher.

Salvador Sanchez very skilled, accurate, rarely wasted punches- but didnt run from a fight.

Evander Holyfield well rounded Olympian with accuracy, precision, timing and distance, but if you wanted to fight him- he'd oblige.

Meldrick Taylor, could throw punches in bunches from every angle body to head. Unfortunately his bangers mentality took him to the brink with JCC which ended his career prematurely. (decision mentally broke him down as well) Taylor was beautiful to watch when throwing, Most fighters who throw as fast & as many as he did--- were unorthodox. Not Meldrick: he threw textbook shots by the bunche-just in an avdanced way.

James Toney- Slips, dips, fights at an angle, accurate as hell, but still loved to slug.

I'm not sure if today's boxers overall have the boxer-puncher mentality.

IMO-Pre 1960's most fighters were crude and fought that way.

1970-1990s the majority of fighters began to master the art of hitting and not getting hit- but when they did--these boxers could & would punch it out.


2000-present More and more boxers are looking to survive, make money or pick up a trinket belt without wanting to unify their division. The learn a part of the craft.
& More so today then ever before.... fights don't occur because of haggling for $$$.
Pricing themelves out of a fight.<<<--boxer-punchers IMO don't have that mentality.

Boxers with the bangers mentality, don't get caught up like that because they chase glory, the money follows.

Today however fighters chase $$$, while running from a fight. And if the contract is signed, they may run during the fight, clinch to survive and not to set traps. <<(especially todays HW's)

Today-They might either be a great boxer or a devastating puncher, but fewer fighters today embody both: The style & mentality of the boxer-puncher

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I do think GGG bucks the trend a little. Obviously he can bang , but I do think his boxing skills are overlooked.

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Not every skilled boxer gets on their bicycle to win.

And if it has become a thing of the past, that doesn't negate the two-tier skillset that IMO makes the best kind of fighting style to employ: aka boxer-puncher.

Salvador Sanchez very skilled, accurate, rarely wasted punches- but didnt run from a fight.

Evander Holyfield well rounded Olympian with accuracy, precision, timing and distance, but if you wanted to fight him- he'd oblige.

Meldrick Taylor, could throw punches in bunches from every angle body to head. Unfortunately his bangers mentality took him to the brink with JCC which ended his career prematurely. (decision mentally broke him down as well) Taylor was beautiful to watch when throwing, Most fighters who throw as fast & as many as he did--- were unorthodox. Not Meldrick: he threw textbook shots by the bunche-just in an avdanced way.

James Toney- Slips, dips, fights at an angle, accurate as hell, but still loved to slug.

I'm not sure if today's boxers overall have the boxer-puncher mentality.

IMO-Pre 1960's most fighters were crude and fought that way.

1970-1990s the majority of fighters began to master the art of hitting and not getting hit- but when they did--these boxers could & would punch it out.


2000-present More and more boxers are looking to survive, make money or pick up a trinket belt without wanting to unify their division. The learn a part of the craft.
& More so today then ever before.... fights don't occur because of haggling for $$$.
Pricing themelves out of a fight.<<<--boxer-punchers IMO don't have that mentality.

Boxers with the bangers mentality, don't get caught up like that because they chase glory, the money follows.

Today however fighters chase $$$, while running from a fight. And if the contract is signed, they may run during the fight, clinch to survive and not to set traps. <<(especially todays HW's)

Today-They might either be a great boxer or a devastating puncher, but fewer fighters today embody both: The style & mentality of the boxer-puncher

---

I do think GGG bucks the trend a little. Obviously he can bang , but I do think his boxing skills are overlooked.

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That is for another thread entitled brutal punchers who were underated boxers.

I always considered guys like Holyfield and Toney as counter-punchers, atleast at HW.

I always reserved the term "boxer-puncher" for long-range outfighters who can execute thumping shots as well, i.e. Wladimir Klitschko and Lennox Lewis for example.

I would describe Holyfield more as a boxer-brawler.

Thomas Hearns

Lennox Lewis

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Originally Posted by Master

Thomas Hearns

Lennox Lewis

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Yeah Hearns fits the bill certainly. Long and whippy controlling distance but can swat his opponents jaw off too.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Sugar Ray Robinson
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Shane Mosley

Those guys could flash the speed and skill but when they needed to slug it out they'd slug it out.

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3xSugar!

1. Sugar Ray Robinson, truly the epitome of this topic.

2. ...Ray Leonard is a boxer-puncher but we'll break it down last...

3 .Sugar Shane, sound boxer- fits this to the "T".
IMO his knockout streak ended because he moved out of his best weight class to chase the golden egg (DLH), then found himself out of his (physical league) Forrest & Winky. LW he would've kept knockin' mofos out.

Now on Ray L...:rolleyes:

Here's where I'll get some flack ...:-\
Ray Leonard IMO is the most overated boxer I can think of...hold on!!!:o But the most underated brawler I can think of.
As I debated with Master that Benitez vs Leonard was something of a chess match turned war.
At one point they are toe-to-toe -throwing combos...in the phonebooth.
My point : Ray couldn't outbox Benitez, he had to whoop his azz.

1st title defense vs. 12 year-veteran LW champ Roberto Duran who beat Ray's ass fight I.
Conventional wisdom says Duran got into Ray's head, so he fought the wrong strategy then claim fight II proved it.

However: Fight II was not a boxing lesson, rather a guy (Ray)who refused to get entangled in a brawl- He fought smart enough to frustrate a guy to quit while taunting him & doing ALOT of moving.

That fight is like Ali's rope-a-dope against Forman: a one-trick-pony that can't be taught or duplicated.
Duran to me...proved Leonard's win over him wasn't that great of a feat as Duran went on to lose every major fight afterwards. Outside of Cuevas & Barkley; Duran got outboxed by Benitez, upset of the year against Laing, loss to Haglar, KTFO'd by Hearns, Sims, Pazienza, Camacho, Joppy.
Point again: The scores basically showed 4 rounds to 3 going into the 8th- not a shutout, or a clinic.

Ray fights Hearns a brawler with who we now know has a suspect chin- Ray's underated power IMO is what caused Hearns to go unorthodox- and box. Why else did he resort to the jab?
One of my favorite cornermen moments solidifies my arguement when Dundee told Ray going into the 14th "Ya blowin' it kid! This is where we separate the boys from the men, ya blowin' it"

Question:confused: What was Dundee saying other than: Your boxing skills don't compare to this kid's jab, reach and range, so fuck it...whoop his ass!
:-\

Last-His comeback fight with Lalonde, Donny was hangin' and up on one card- Ray brought the dog out and KTFO'd him. No Bernard Hopkins style clinic. He had to stop Lalonde to win.

Hearns II comes years later...after Barkley sparked his ass & that was a bullshit draw all-day-we all know it, why? Because Ray could never outbox a KO artist named Hearns with a suspect chin.

Then fights a fat chaloopa of a Duran for a 3rd time ending his career by getting outboxed by Norris and knocked out by of all people, Camacho.

Ray Leonard's career proved his boxing skills was compromised continously, but his chin & heart would deliver by turning from boxer to puncher.

Had Ray not have the puncher's mentality- he would've folded in the 9th or 10th with Haglar- BUT the dog came out.

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Not every skilled boxer gets on their bicycle to win.

And if it has become a thing of the past, that doesn't negate the two-tier skillset that IMO makes the best kind of fighting style to employ: aka boxer-puncher.

Salvador Sanchez very skilled, accurate, rarely wasted punches- but didnt run from a fight.

Evander Holyfield well rounded Olympian with accuracy, precision, timing and distance, but if you wanted to fight him- he'd oblige.

Meldrick Taylor, could throw punches in bunches from every angle body to head. Unfortunately his bangers mentality took him to the brink with JCC which ended his career prematurely. (decision mentally broke him down as well) Taylor was beautiful to watch when throwing, Most fighters who throw as fast & as many as he did--- were unorthodox. Not Meldrick: he threw textbook shots by the bunche-just in an avdanced way.

James Toney- Slips, dips, fights at an angle, accurate as hell, but still loved to slug.

I'm not sure if today's boxers overall have the boxer-puncher mentality.

IMO-Pre 1960's most fighters were crude and fought that way.

1970-1990s the majority of fighters began to master the art of hitting and not getting hit- but when they did--these boxers could & would punch it out.


2000-present More and more boxers are looking to survive, make money or pick up a trinket belt without wanting to unify their division. The learn a part of the craft.
& More so today then ever before.... fights don't occur because of haggling for $$$.
Pricing themelves out of a fight.<<<--boxer-punchers IMO don't have that mentality.

Boxers with the bangers mentality, don't get caught up like that because they chase glory, the money follows.

Today however fighters chase $$$, while running from a fight. And if the contract is signed, they may run during the fight, clinch to survive and not to set traps. <<(especially todays HW's)

Today-They might either be a great boxer or a devastating puncher, but fewer fighters today embody both: The style & mentality of the boxer-puncher

---

I do think GGG bucks the trend a little. Obviously he can bang , but I do think his boxing skills are overlooked.

---

That is for another thread entitled brutal punchers who were underated boxers.

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Good idea.

what about Earnie Shavers? ;D

Actually, more seriously, I completely agree with Tommy Hearns. I'd like to add Alexis Arguello and Bob Foster.

I'd like to add Alexis Arguello
ETM

extreme thin man;;Alexis Arguello super skilled boxer who could bang!

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Originally Posted by Max Power

I always considered guys like Holyfield and Toney as counter-punchers, atleast at HW.

I always reserved the term "boxer-puncher" for long-range outfighters who can execute thumping shots as well, i.e. Wladimir Klitschko and Lennox Lewis for example.

I would describe Holyfield more as a boxer-brawler.

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Yeah Toney is a superb counter-puncher. He can counter, or when he was close to losing to Nunn, he didn't counterpunch, he took it to Nunn.

Holy a boxer-brawler LOL! Can't dispute that title.

Lennox definately is the conssumate boxer-puncher.

Well you'd really have to look at whether or not it was in a boxer's best interest to stand and bang if he had enough ability where he didn't have to.

Meldrick Taylor is brain damaged and broke somewhere in Philly right now because he chose to fight that way.

Tim Bradley chose to bang it out with Provodnikov when he got hurt and nearly got his ass knocked out because of it.

Tommy Hearns tried to go toe to toe with Hagler and ended up in an unconscious heap.

Ect ect ect.

The fans win out when these guys choose to bang it out - no question - but I have to wonder if it works out for the boxer.

I love guys who bang, but I never saw the glory in making a fight harder or more competitive than it needed to be. The goal of any true champ should be to hit and not get hit, so you can make money and enjoy a reasonable quality of life when you retire.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Sugar Ray Robinson
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Shane Mosley

Those guys could flash the speed and skill but when they needed to slug it out they'd slug it out.

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Nice set

Hearns is another
Morales. I think he had a +90% ko ratio at 122
Louis
Arguello
Foster
Langford

Orlando Canizales was the first to come to mind. Jose Napoles, Antonio Esparragoza. Too Sharp Johnson. Ricardo Lopez would knock you retarded while painting a museum piece.

Felix Trinidad, not just a banger.

Joe Louis is the original boxer-puncher.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Sugar Ray Robinson
Sugar Ray Leonard
Sugar Shane Mosley

Those guys could flash the speed and skill but when they needed to slug it out they'd slug it out.

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Sweet!

Carlos Monzon

Ricardo Lopez was the consummate boxer puncher. Beautiful to watch in the ring and his technique was textbook worthy. Kennedy McKinney, Junior Jones and Terry Norris were all great boxer punchers in addition to those already named (Lewis, Hearns...etc.). One thought (take it for what it's worth!): James Toney was more of a boxer-puncher at middle and super middle as he had the speed and length necessary to box behind the jab and the power to score legit stoppages. James Toney the light heavy up to heavy was a great defensive specialist who had superior hand speed and would counter punch guys into frustration/submission.

Forgot Michael Carbajal. He was another guy I would add to the list. Maybe Azuma Nelson also.

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Originally Posted by mikeeod

Ricardo Lopez was the consummate boxer puncher. Beautiful to watch in the ring and his technique was textbook worthy. Kennedy McKinney, Junior Jones and Terry Norris were all great boxer punchers in addition to those already named (Lewis, Hearns...etc.). One thought (take it for what it's worth!): James Toney was more of a boxer-puncher at middle and super middle as he had the speed and length necessary to box behind the jab and the power to score legit stoppages. James Toney the light heavy up to heavy was a great defensive specialist who had superior hand speed and would counter punch guys into frustration/submission.

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James Toney every thing you just stated.