Why did so many fighters just stand straight up, right in the Klits' range, and let them just tee-off with predictable 1-2's, until getting knocked out?
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Why did so many fighters just stand straight up, right in the Klits' range, and let them just tee-off with predictable 1-2's, until getting knocked out?
fear
LOL
Give it up mate. You pump up boxers who would never enter the ring against Klitschko
And then you knock his actual opponents who did.
Every opponent TRIES to win against Klitschko. They simply can't!
Wladimir's style has been described, accurately as this..
"Complete, Stylistic Shutdown"
Every opponent is going to move, is going to do this and that BEFORE the fight.
AFTER the fight they "couldn't execute the plan".
Because no matter what they do, they are punished with iron jabs left and right until subconsciously they DON'T move, they have been conditioned that way, ready to be knocked out.
Wladimir has fought more good 200+ opponents than any other HW boxer in history.
And he has fought the most diverse range of opponents of any boxer in history, from the hard-hitting stalker to the slick counterpuncher.
And he wins round after round, fight after fight, scores KO after KO without barely getting hit or losing a round because of 1 thing.
He is unbelievably good.
If you can't give the guy his dues for this, you can go back to watching your precious Earnie Shavers and Joe Roman.
The only thing you can REALLY say about Klitschko's style is that it is based around his range.
He only outweighs about 50% of his opposition and his average opponent weight is a little smaller than himself at nearly 240lbs now (just shy). Weight which is ALWAYS an advantage even when the boxer with it is bummy.
But he out-talls most of his opponents, which is only a major advantage in itself (out-talling) when the boxer is skilled and knows how to effectively utilise height and range (as Klitschko obviously does better than anyone else).
However if you want to slam Klitschko for this, you also have to slam..
Geroge Foreman (who out-talled AND outweighed nearly every opponent faced)
Muhammad Ali (who out-talled nearly every opponent AND outweighed 70% of them!)
Lennox Lewis (who out-talled and out-weighed nearly every single opponent faced!)
As you can see, signature favourites of yours are no better in this regard but in fact had bigger advantages over the competition!
If you take Wladimir's height away, he would not be nearly as effective. IF you take Muhammad's height away, and paint him white, he is Jerry Quarry!
;D;D;D;D;D;D Sometimes....there just aint enough moticons:happy0931sb4::happy0931sb4::lolhaha::rofm aoal:Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Yeah but wars Max wheres the wars? :eek:
Theres no more wars.
THEY STOOD THERE, GUARD BARELY UP, ...... I know what Im talking about! They only stood there. They didn't try to bull their way in, like Rocky Marciano would do. They didn't try to get low, all the way down, and come up from underneath. I am a heavy hitter for my weight. I know I am talking about. I would get underneath, and punch upwards, I have a heavy hand, my hands are heavy. I could break their ribs, or split into their spleen, while they are flailing their octopus arms all over the place, looking so stupid and amateurish. I would show them good. :p
Ironically, if you want to see "wars" you have to look to the more UNSKILLED boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Skilled boxers=technical fight
Unskilled boxers=war
My favourite "war" was Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.
Because Holyfield was too small to nullify Bowe and liked to abandon skills to slug it out often anyway.
And Bowe did not have the level of skill necessary to utilise his height and keep Holyfield at the end of his jab. Bowe- often credited with his infighting double threat ability, should be equally discredited with having to resort to it.
What ensues is a slug fest. Enabled of course because they both possessed very solid chins of course.
Oh yeah? Tell me what opponent did that?Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Kubrat Pulev fought behind a very high guard you fool, look at him!
David Haye did not fight behind a very high guard, that's because his defence was fast and slick and he never stood in front of Klitschko.
2 examples.
Basically..
Speed+movement+reflexes = less need for high guard
Bigger+slower = high guard
UNLESS
You are a Klitschko, you are both big AND fast and can get do a bit of both.
Even Stiverne, who is very fast for his size, fights behind a high guard.
Foolish statements man!
You know little except of fights that occurred a hundred years ago.
uh, oh...think I got to disagree with you on this one..At least when it comes to David "Mach5" Haye.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Dude was trying to brake the speed barrier man. For what punchstats is worth: Haye: 72 outta 290.
While Wlad was credited with throwing 509-landing 134:105 were jabs.
That meant Wlad landed a whopping 29 power punches over 12 rounds.:o
By the 4th round 6, count'em if you like counting sheep. 6 power punches landed by Wlad...
That aint teein' off, that's called tea time, G-money.
And for Andre--war? Please bruh man..wars are for non-skilled boxers...why else would Holy vs Bowe combine over 1,100 punches thrown...because they aren't skilled enough to do ring-sprints.
Tua-Ibeabuchi may have averaged over 1,730 combined...I guess they were so busy trying to land, they didn't think to move...without sticking...
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/vi...-haye-compubox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Tell me...... do you ever wake up the next day and say:
"What on Earth possessed me to write something as outlandish as that??"
i would punch rights, and then punch lefts, into the Klits, hard, REAL HARD, so they would feel it good. I have good wind, 2nd wind, 3rd wind, for my height. I know uppercut, I know "opposite fist", I saw Jess Willard use it. On a video, but still it counts and I learned how it's done.
Unskilled boxers=war :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerIronically, if you want to see "wars" you have to look to the more UNSKILLED boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Skilled boxers=technical fight
Unskilled boxers=war
My favourite "war" was Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.
Because Holyfield was too small to nullify Bowe and liked to abandon skills to slug it out often anyway.
And Bowe did not have the level of skill necessary to utilise his height and keep Holyfield at the end of his jab. Bowe- often credited with his infighting double threat ability, should be equally discredited with having to resort to it.
What ensues is a slug fest. Enabled of course because they both possessed very solid chins of course.
I'd reword that if it was me, It does occur, but it isnt a monopolizing factor.
Balls and the decision to not be controlled also equals war.
I wouldnt call Tua and Ibeabuchi unskilled or Morrales or Barrera,or Ali or most of his warring partners through the years either for that matter.
Maybe the easy knock outs on the way for these men you can call unskilled but that is also comparative.
I'd let and encourage the Klit tee off all it wanted to ???
Well @brocktonblockbust,Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
If why don't you challenge Klitschko next if it's that simple, follow him around chanting LETS GO CHAMP for a few months and see how you go. Considering how "out of shape" Wlad's opponents are, hell, why even bother to train! LOL
Or even better, if your secret method long forgotten in the boxing world is so effective, why not become a trainer, teach a young potential fighter with old school mindset and conditioning to employ your tactic and "take out" that giant oaf they call Klitschko?
I will be here to eat that oily meat they call crow my man! ;)
Of the 66 opponents to date.. Only 3 have gotten lucky.
Tua was very unskilled, he was a basic tanker with a hard chin and hard punch and that is about it as far as skills go.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreUnskilled boxers=war :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerIronically, if you want to see "wars" you have to look to the more UNSKILLED boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Skilled boxers=technical fight
Unskilled boxers=war
My favourite "war" was Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.
Because Holyfield was too small to nullify Bowe and liked to abandon skills to slug it out often anyway.
And Bowe did not have the level of skill necessary to utilise his height and keep Holyfield at the end of his jab. Bowe- often credited with his infighting double threat ability, should be equally discredited with having to resort to it.
What ensues is a slug fest. Enabled of course because they both possessed very solid chins of course.
I'd reword that if it was me, It does occur, but it isnt a monopolizing factor.
Balls and the decision to not be controlled also equals war.
I wouldnt call Tua and Ibeabuchi unskilled or Morrales or Barrera,or Ali or most of his warring partners through the years either for that matter.
Maybe the easy knock outs on the way for these men you can call unskilled but that is also comparative.
Ali was a fundamentally very unskilled boxer, lacking in basic fight reflexes and technical ability. He made up for it with great stamina always, height and speed when he was younger and later on, chin and experience.
Ali's warring partner Frazier was about as skilless as can be like Tua (without the chin or the punch though).
Ibeabuchi had fundamental skills but nothing more and nothing "controlling", he boxed a bit and slugged too and often found himself inside. He could not control Byrd or Tua properly.
Morales and Barera, I grant you are well rounded fighters. They fight in limit weight division where it is necessary for success to be well rounded. Also they fight in rather light divisions where the punches are more bareable, thus enabling them to participate in that sort of fight to a much greater degree than a HW.
Hypothetically Andre, if we take one of our modern technically great fighters like Klitschko or Haye and we gave them first rate chins (assuming they are glass jawed now like many claim), how much punishment or hard punches do you really think they could take?
I mean Arreola was a very tough guy, extremely hard chinned but one really cracker punch from Stiverne and he was done the moment that first one landed really.
The power of the modern HW division I believe is now so great that even the hardest of chins will be cracked by the hardest of punches.
And even if they had a titanium chin that could withstand any slug fest with the hardest hitters, why the hell would they want to? When they can soundly outbox their opponents?
Nobody WANTS to get punched in the face as far as I am aware! The brawlers that enter into this stuff do it because it's the only way they CAN do it at the time.
I am certain that top level professional boxers did not routinely abandon their skills to slug it out merely for the entertainment of the spectators. That doesn't ring true.
I think it was an acceptable risk in previous HW eras (the Ali era, the Louis era), because the punches were much weaker. You get the feeling when watching these fights that an ordinary man could withstand a lot of those shots.
Not so today, you can almost feel some of todays shots and most HW's know they cannot be taking those kinds of shots in their time.
The days of taking a hundred shots to land ten of your own are over I am afraid, and it's only going to get worse.. OR better, depending on how you look at it.
I like action too. But I also appreciate real skills as well.
Deontay Wilder is a case in point...
He has relatively very poor skills.
He has no stamina or chin to speak of.
But he has such a hard punch, such range and such good delivery (atleast against his mismatched opponents to date) that it doesn't matter! Very few far more skilled boxers with relatively better chin and great stamina could withstand the one trick pony.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerTua was very unskilled, he was a basic tanker with a hard chin and hard punch and that is about it as far as skills go.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreUnskilled boxers=war :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerIronically, if you want to see "wars" you have to look to the more UNSKILLED boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Skilled boxers=technical fight
Unskilled boxers=war
My favourite "war" was Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.
Because Holyfield was too small to nullify Bowe and liked to abandon skills to slug it out often anyway.
And Bowe did not have the level of skill necessary to utilise his height and keep Holyfield at the end of his jab. Bowe- often credited with his infighting double threat ability, should be equally discredited with having to resort to it.
What ensues is a slug fest. Enabled of course because they both possessed very solid chins of course.
I'd reword that if it was me, It does occur, but it isnt a monopolizing factor.
Balls and the decision to not be controlled also equals war.
I wouldnt call Tua and Ibeabuchi unskilled or Morrales or Barrera,or Ali or most of his warring partners through the years either for that matter.
Maybe the easy knock outs on the way for these men you can call unskilled but that is also comparative.
Ali was a fundamentally very unskilled boxer, lacking in basic fight reflexes and technical ability. He made up for it with great stamina always, height and speed when he was younger and later on, chin and experience.
Ali's warring partner Frazier was about as skilless as can be like Tua (without the chin or the punch though).
Ibeabuchi had fundamental skills but nothing more and nothing "controlling", he boxed a bit and slugged too and often found himself inside. He could not control Byrd or Tua properly.
Morales and Barera, I grant you are well rounded fighters. They fight in limit weight division where it is necessary for success to be well rounded. Also they fight in rather light divisions where the punches are more bareable, thus enabling them to participate in that sort of fight to a much greater degree than a HW.
Hypothetically Andre, if we take one of our modern technically great fighters like Klitschko or Haye and we gave them first rate chins (assuming they are glass jawed now like many claim), how much punishment or hard punches do you really think they could take?
I mean Arreola was a very tough guy, extremely hard chinned but one really cracker punch from Stiverne and he was done the moment that first one landed really.
The power of the modern HW division I believe is now so great that even the hardest of chins will be cracked by the hardest of punches.
And even if they had a titanium chin that could withstand any slug fest with the hardest hitters, why the hell would they want to? When they can soundly outbox their opponents?
Nobody WANTS to get punched in the face as far as I am aware! The brawlers that enter into this stuff do it because it's the only way they CAN do it at the time.
I am certain that top level professional boxers did not routinely abandon their skills to slug it out merely for the entertainment of the spectators. That doesn't ring true.
I think it was an acceptable risk in previous HW eras (the Ali era, the Louis era), because the punches were much weaker. You get the feeling when watching these fights that an ordinary man could withstand a lot of those shots.
Not so today, you can almost feel some of todays shots and most HW's know they cannot be taking those kinds of shots in their time.
The days of taking a hundred shots to land ten of your own are over I am afraid, and it's only going to get worse.. OR better, depending on how you look at it.
I like action too. But I also appreciate real skills as well.
Then by all the above the you must of loved Spen Okkte ;D
Keep it, its not for me,neither is generalizing and snowballing whole eras into piles.
This latest one bores me. Skilled yeah sure so was Spen a total master at a few things to be exact.
Hehe, very funny! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreQuote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerTua was very unskilled, he was a basic tanker with a hard chin and hard punch and that is about it as far as skills go.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreUnskilled boxers=war :-\Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerIronically, if you want to see "wars" you have to look to the more UNSKILLED boxers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre
Skilled boxers=technical fight
Unskilled boxers=war
My favourite "war" was Bowe vs Holyfield trilogy.
Because Holyfield was too small to nullify Bowe and liked to abandon skills to slug it out often anyway.
And Bowe did not have the level of skill necessary to utilise his height and keep Holyfield at the end of his jab. Bowe- often credited with his infighting double threat ability, should be equally discredited with having to resort to it.
What ensues is a slug fest. Enabled of course because they both possessed very solid chins of course.
I'd reword that if it was me, It does occur, but it isnt a monopolizing factor.
Balls and the decision to not be controlled also equals war.
I wouldnt call Tua and Ibeabuchi unskilled or Morrales or Barrera,or Ali or most of his warring partners through the years either for that matter.
Maybe the easy knock outs on the way for these men you can call unskilled but that is also comparative.
Ali was a fundamentally very unskilled boxer, lacking in basic fight reflexes and technical ability. He made up for it with great stamina always, height and speed when he was younger and later on, chin and experience.
Ali's warring partner Frazier was about as skilless as can be like Tua (without the chin or the punch though).
Ibeabuchi had fundamental skills but nothing more and nothing "controlling", he boxed a bit and slugged too and often found himself inside. He could not control Byrd or Tua properly.
Morales and Barera, I grant you are well rounded fighters. They fight in limit weight division where it is necessary for success to be well rounded. Also they fight in rather light divisions where the punches are more bareable, thus enabling them to participate in that sort of fight to a much greater degree than a HW.
Hypothetically Andre, if we take one of our modern technically great fighters like Klitschko or Haye and we gave them first rate chins (assuming they are glass jawed now like many claim), how much punishment or hard punches do you really think they could take?
I mean Arreola was a very tough guy, extremely hard chinned but one really cracker punch from Stiverne and he was done the moment that first one landed really.
The power of the modern HW division I believe is now so great that even the hardest of chins will be cracked by the hardest of punches.
And even if they had a titanium chin that could withstand any slug fest with the hardest hitters, why the hell would they want to? When they can soundly outbox their opponents?
Nobody WANTS to get punched in the face as far as I am aware! The brawlers that enter into this stuff do it because it's the only way they CAN do it at the time.
I am certain that top level professional boxers did not routinely abandon their skills to slug it out merely for the entertainment of the spectators. That doesn't ring true.
I think it was an acceptable risk in previous HW eras (the Ali era, the Louis era), because the punches were much weaker. You get the feeling when watching these fights that an ordinary man could withstand a lot of those shots.
Not so today, you can almost feel some of todays shots and most HW's know they cannot be taking those kinds of shots in their time.
The days of taking a hundred shots to land ten of your own are over I am afraid, and it's only going to get worse.. OR better, depending on how you look at it.
I like action too. But I also appreciate real skills as well.
Then by all the above the you must of loved Spen Okkte ;D
Keep it, its not for me,neither is generalizing and snowballing whole eras into piles.
This latest one bores me. Skilled yeah sure so was Spen a total master at a few things to be exact.
I will be honest, Wladimir personally is not the most exciting. Many of the other HW's still are though.
I think the 90's era HW's was possibly the most watchable era. And Tyson in the 80's.
Although I understand what you mean about battles before that time, I have seen more than enough of them, they just don't do it for me like the 90's and a few more recent battles do either as far as even wars go.
I think there needs to be a bit of both for watchability. I want to see big stong guys that can knock you senseless with a punch and high tension, forced skill level because of it, AND some back and forth action as well.
For this particular combination, I personally prefer the 90's over all other eras.
But then again, I am obviously not nostalgic about eras I had no connection to, and I am only 33 (34 in MArch) so I never actually lived it.
That might qualify me as somewhat era biased.
I just don't feel the tension in an Ali fight, nobody ever really looks like they're in any danger of getting seriously hurt ever in any of those fights to be honest. Similarly with previous eras.
Both Klitschkos fight tall, but in different ways. Wlad is much more mobile and fluid, while Vitali is more aggressive and durable. There is a saying that no plan in combat survives first contact. The same is true for fighting the Klitschko brothers.
Vitali and Wlad are both technicians in the ring, and both hit very hard. I'm sure everyone that has ever set foot in the ring with them has come in with a plan to exploit the vulnerabilities you see, only to abandon that plan once their power and trip hammer jab was felt. It takes a unique/rare mentality to feel that kind of physical strength and power and ignore or overcome the survival instinct to force the type of fight necessary to overcome technically and physically superior fighters like the Klitschko brothers. You may not like their styles but you have to give them their due for their dominance of the division.
This is just stupid. If you do this against Wlad you get hugged and leaned on. Many fighters have tried this. It doesnt work. Marciano wouldnt get KOd early agaisnt Wlad. Its like asking Maidana to fight Kovalev. Hes getting KTFO, no matter how tough he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Same reason fighters froze vs Tyson, same reason fighters backed away from Holyfield, same reason fighters tried to hide vs Joe Louis and George Foreman.
#1 The bright lights of a title fight can fuck with a fighter's head
#2 Self fulfilling prophecy - Wlad LOOKS unbeatable, his opponents are eager to start believing that after the first big jab lands.
#3 The more you do something the easier it is to keep doing. Keep your head still in round 1, it's easier to do the same in round 2
For sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Simple because they are all shit and devoid of any god given talent, skill, courage and desire.
Secondly Wlad ties the fuck out of them if they get anywhere near him and tires them out.
Thirdly Wlad control’s the negotiations, fees, referees and judges.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Holy Jesus....ok ROSS
Out -Talled ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Would you say maybe that you were a................................................Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
monster ? :-\ for your weight ? :o;D
every era had a giant.
every era had a bully.
this is the first era where David just had no balls to think about slayng goliath.
It is a technical term and not made up at all. Honest. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzOut -Talled ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
yup, Just like David haye's loss to Wlad:he got out toed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterIt is a technical term and not made up at all. Honest. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzOut -Talled ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
Out toed :) is like a Brooklyn style shoe in da ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeyup, Just like David haye's loss to Wlad:he got out toed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterIt is a technical term and not made up at all. Honest. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzOut -Talled ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
@Max Power @Greenbeanz @maxpower You know it that I can use "left hand punch" and "opposite fist" (Jess Willard my main man showed me that on a video), so stop trying to deny it, that I can punch and I would PUNCH HARD to the spleen and appendix areas of Wlad, any fighter can be a Spleen-Splitter ATG who has a heavy hand and can PUNCH HARD to the rib cage of taller fighters, but Max Power is in denial, and Greenbeanz isn't so off-target as Max Power about the "opposite fist" that I would UNLEASH (AND I WOULD UNLEASH IT SO STRONGLY AND OUT-TALLERS WOULD PROVE FUTILE AGAINST MY ARSENAL) so quit hatin' on "opposite fist" techniques, because I am a monster for my weight and I can PUNCH HARD LIKE HELL.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzWould you say maybe that you were a................................................Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
monster ? :-\ for your weight ? :o;D
No, he said Out Toad, like a proud homosexual amphibianQuote:
Originally Posted by AndreOut toed :) is like a Brooklyn style shoe in da ass?Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeyup, Just like David haye's loss to Wlad:he got out toed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterIt is a technical term and not made up at all. Honest. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzOut -Talled ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Max Power
http://cdn1.smosh.com/sites/default/...ers-kermit.jpg
David did fight Goliath...Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
He actually did a lot better than most give him credit for. He made Goliath miss all night and landed a few shots of his own.
David simply failed to produce.
This Goliath is no regular bully.
Man I HOPE your taking the piss cause your bloody delusional!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
BAM, just like that ey!Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Your objectivity is just right off the scale!
Talentless bums, that's gotta be it!
ARE YOU SAYING GETTING UNDERNEATH IS NOT THE WAY TO FIGHT A GUY WHO OUT-TALLS YOU? OK, genius, what are you going to suggest, to stand back IN THE FIGHTER'S RANGE at the end of his punches when he has 10 inches reach on you? "opposite fist" takes care of that. But you won't listen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerMan I HOPE your taking the piss cause your bloody delusional!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
You really SOUND just like a Wladimir opponent (pre-fight) here just now!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust@Max Power @Greenbeanz @maxpower You know it that I can use "left hand punch" and "opposite fist" (Jess Willard my main man showed me that on a video), so stop trying to deny it, that I can punch and I would PUNCH HARD to the spleen and appendix areas of Wlad, any fighter can be a Spleen-Splitter ATG who has a heavy hand and can PUNCH HARD to the rib cage of taller fighters, but Max Power is in denial, and Greenbeanz isn't so off-target as Max Power about the "opposite fist" that I would UNLEASH (AND I WOULD UNLEASH IT SO STRONGLY AND OUT-TALLERS WOULD PROVE FUTILE AGAINST MY ARSENAL) so quit hatin' on "opposite fist" techniques, because I am a monster for my weight and I can PUNCH HARD LIKE HELL.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzWould you say maybe that you were a................................................Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
monster ? :-\ for your weight ? :o;D
I will even lay a fiver on you brock!! Good luck!
I was commenting more on your self-glorification, rather than your strategy :DQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustARE YOU SAYING GETTING UNDERNEATH IS NOT THE WAY TO FIGHT A GUY WHO OUT-TALLS YOU? OK, genius, what are you going to suggest, to stand back IN THE FIGHTER'S RANGE at the end of his punches when he has 10 inches reach on you? "opposite fist" takes care of that. But you won't listen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Max PowerMan I HOPE your taking the piss cause your bloody delusional!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust