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Its pretty obvious margarito had loaded gloves for this fight even though we will never know...
What are your thoughts on this first fight and give me an idea on where you think cotto would have been if this fight never took place..(no catchweight talk either!)
Catch weight talk is essential, that all changes if he doesn't lose that fight.
Cotto would have kept pushing himself maybe would have fought Paul Williams, maybe Floyd Mayweather Jr....I think he would have been very dangerous for a longer period of time.
The Margarito fight took a lot of starch out of him what with the loaded gloves and all.
Is it obvious?
The fight with Margarito did take 2/3 good fights out of Cotto. It stopped his undefeated streak and momentum. He may have got a few more wins but he would have still lost to Manny who was flying at the time and he would have still lost to Floyd.
Maybe he would have beaten Trout.
I STILL think Cotto had the right style to beat Floyd and that was shown in how well he fought Floyd with a brand new trainer...had his uncle still been in his corner who knows how well he could have done, but that Margarito fight broke their bond.
The Pacquiao fight was just a cluster fuck, Miguel didn't even have a real trainer in his corner
I think Cotto and Hatton had better chance against Floyd at light welter limit.
There would be one less loss on his record. That is all.
He probably wouldnt be as traumatized though. Marga got him cherrypicking handicapped opponents. Lol
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Originally Posted by imp
Tony Margarito LEGITIMATELY beat Miguel Cotto into submission. Cotto never queried his terrible beating until that blatant liar Nazim Pinnochio Richardson shouted out that "BLOCKS" fell out of Margarito's wraps. What happened to those supposed blocks ?? All the CSAC came up with was a used gauze pad that the Lab tested & proved to be harmless
The rematch , that Cotto only signed when he knew Margarito's eye was permanently damaged, was headed for a repeat of Fight 1 till the NY doc stepped in and stopped the fight. He stopped it to save Cotto the embarrassment of quitting AGAIN!!!! not to save Margarito's eye. Did Margarito have loaded gloves then? Did he have loaded gloves against Paquaio when he put Paquaio in bed with damaged ribs???
The only cheaters that night were Nazim Richardson & a juiced to the gills Mosely
I kind of think Mayweather let Cotto into that fight. There are even times wen he seems to be the one that was steering it to the corners. I honestly believe that Floyd was paranoid of going to jail regardless of how club med it was going to be. In his arrogant mind he probably never thought it possible with who he had on retainer. I think he fought that fight partly for the prison population.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
With Hatton, Ricky never had a chance to fight. He was even getting warned for Floyds fouls. Once Cortez figured out why he got the job in the second Castillo fight it was in his economical self interest to continue with those duties right up to his blown fight with Ortiz. Had he not retired, he most likely would have worked both Maidana fights. Its funny cause you would never see him in frame when he was reffing undercards.
In answer to the question I wonder how Billy Collins would have turned out if Resto never happened? Its a testimony to Miguels heart and soul that he has been able to do what he has done since even in his losses. His musical chair routine with his trainers hasn't helped much but one certainly has to afford a certain amount of physical loss to him. It had to have shortened his career overall and effected some of his performances.
Cotto and Margarito would never avoid each other.
Indeed. But you can't expect Margie fans to be honest about this because it's embarrassing. Embarrassing doesn't seem strong enough actually, disgraceful is more appropriate. But even that seems too weak for such a low down slimy piece of shit like Margie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
If Cotto-Margarito never happened?
MargaCheato's 15 minutes of fame would've been a hell of a lot shorter. His cheating ways were exposed against Mosley, who to add insult to injury had just knocked the living shit out of him.
As far as Cotto, the first fight did take a lot out of him. Getting beaten with plaster casts will have that effect on a man. Kudos to him for coming back and resurrecting his career even stronger. His adaptability has always been a strong point.
I do think his musical chairs with trainers would've caused him to lose against Pac regardless. As I remember, he had some clueless trainer in his corner for that fight.
Had Cotto-Margarito never happened, Cotto's peak would've been a bit longer.
Yeah the damage that Cotto suffered physically and mentally in that fight took a lot out of him.
When people slagged Floyd for trying to bring up special stipulations, I always think of Cotto, who took two of his worst beatings at the hands of two alleged cheats.
All you guys dissing Antonio Margarito & calling him a cheat seem to have forgotten the laws of the land. A man is innocent until he is proved guilty I thought. Antonio Margarito was banned from boxing due to a blatant lie from Nazim Richardson who claimed "BLOCKS" fell out of Margarito's wraps. Where are those blocks? No one else saw any blocks. The CSAC banned him without proof he'd done anything wrong. When the supposed loaded pads were tested they were deemed HARMLESS by the laboratory that conducted the tests.
If anyone cheated on that night it was Nazim Richardson for blatantly lying. Plus if you look at Mosely's performances against Mora & the way he gassed after 3 rounds against Floyd What made him the Unstoppable killer with boundless energy against Margarito?? In my opinion he was juiced to the gills. Now we all know he was caught using EPO steroids against Oscar If anyone should be accused its Mosesly not Margarito.
Cotto is a cry baby he blamed everyone else for his defeats. He took the rematch against Margarito only when he knew Margarito's eye was permanently damaged. Even then he couldn't beat Margarito legitimately He had to rely on a crooked NY doc to stop the fight in case he took a knee in surrender AGAIN!!!!!
Yeah... that damn crooked doctor. How dare he stop the fight before MargaCheato's eye came completely out of its socket? Disgraceful. My favorite moment, though... was when Cotto walked across the ring after the fight was over and stared down MargaCheato like the scumbag piece of rat excrement he is.
Since then.... where has MargaCheato's career gone? Where has Cotto's?
I rest my case.
The real question is what would Margarito be without loading the gloves? And if you take the sample of the fights where we know 100% for certain he didn't have loaded wraps he looks like a very average professional fighter, nothing special.
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Originally Posted by El Kabong
Ask Manny Paquaio who was bedridden with damaged ribs after the Margarito fight if he punched hard .
Margarito NEVER loaded his gloves stop using that excuse
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Cotto walked across the ring because he knew his crooked doc saved him. Cotto didn't push for a rematch until he saw Margarito's permanently damaged eye then he grew a set. He still couldn't put Margarito away even though he had only one good eye. He makes a career out of fighting cripples One legged Yuri Foreman Almost legless Sergio Martinez. Look at Margarito's damaged eye Did he quit!!! ??? NO Cotto took a knee in submission & QUIT!! He was heading to do it again till that crooked doc helped him out
It's really sad when a person can't face reality. I have no pity for that scumbag Margie but I have so much pity for his fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Cotto walked across the ring because he knew his crooked doc saved him. Cotto didn't push for a rematch until he saw Margarito's permanently damaged eye then he grew a set. He still couldn't put Margarito away even though he had only one good eye. He makes a career out of fighting cripples One legged Yuri Foreman Almost legless Sergio Martinez. Look at Margarito's damaged eye Did he quit!!! ??? NO Cotto took a knee in submission & QUIT!! He was heading to do it again till that crooked doc helped him out
Actually Ron its people like you I feel sorry for. Its you cannot face reality. All you can do is try to diss Antonio Margargarito purely because he made your idol Miguel Cotto take a knee and QUIT!!!!!!!!!! He legitimately beat the fight out of Cotto. Cotto tried to take advantage of Margarito knowing he had a permanently damaged eye. Watch the fight again & see how Cotto targeted it also illegally lacing, rubbing the inside of his glove, over it several times. Still couldn't get Margarito to quit like he did could he.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's really sad when a person can't face reality. I have no pity for that scumbag Margie but I have so much pity for his fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Cotto walked across the ring because he knew his crooked doc saved him. Cotto didn't push for a rematch until he saw Margarito's permanently damaged eye then he grew a set. He still couldn't put Margarito away even though he had only one good eye. He makes a career out of fighting cripples One legged Yuri Foreman Almost legless Sergio Martinez. Look at Margarito's damaged eye Did he quit!!! ??? NO Cotto took a knee in submission & QUIT!! He was heading to do it again till that crooked doc helped him out
Also watch the doctors faux pas when interviewed after the fight. He said he stopped the fight because Margarito couldn't see out of that eye since round 2. Then realizing his faux pas he stammered " But it was getting worse" If he knew Margarito had only one good eye in round 2 why did he let him go 8 more rounds??? It wasn't till Margarito started to come on & was beating his chest at Cotto & Cotto was wilting that the doc stopped that fight.
All Ive ever asked for is PROOF Antonio Margarito ever loaded or tried to load his gloves. I've asked the CSAC Nazim Richardson & everyone else. No one has been able to provide one iota of proof. If the CSAC had anything at all Margarito would have been charged & permanently banned & rightly so. They had nothing & never did. A mans career & good name was taken from him by a BLATANT LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's really sad when a person can't face reality. I have no pity for that scumbag Margie but I have so much pity for his fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Cotto walked across the ring because he knew his crooked doc saved him. Cotto didn't push for a rematch until he saw Margarito's permanently damaged eye then he grew a set. He still couldn't put Margarito away even though he had only one good eye. He makes a career out of fighting cripples One legged Yuri Foreman Almost legless Sergio Martinez. Look at Margarito's damaged eye Did he quit!!! ??? NO Cotto took a knee in submission & QUIT!! He was heading to do it again till that crooked doc helped him out
No need to feel pity for scumbag Margie. He'll soon enough (if not already) be peddling the streets of Tijuana with his eye-patch telling anyone who will listen how he used to be somebody.
"I coulda been a contendah. I coulda been somebody instead of a bum... which is what I am."
Ala Marlon Brando.... ;)
His fans are another matter. They're even more blind than "One-Eye MargaCheato".
Fuck'em.
Besides....... their idol's spot on the Hall of Shame is secure.
Now, I suppose its possible that Margaresto only attempted to kill his opponent via plaster paws when he was caught pad handed against Shane. I also suppose its possible that he didn’t know his hands were filled with cement soaked pads that formed to his knuckles. I know I play the “I didn’t know” card at work because when you work in the public sector its at times easier to apologize then it is to ask for permission.Quote:
We suppose ourselves to possess unqualified scientific knowledge of a thing, as opposed to knowing it in the accidental way in which the sophist knows, when we think that we know the cause on which the fact depends, as the cause of that fact and of no other, and, further, that the fact could not be other than it is.
The problem I have with this notion is in its reasoning and that’s why I quoted Aristotle. If he was about to cheat against a worn out old Shane Mosley then its no giant leap of faith or deductive reasoning to presuppose that he had cheated against a young undefeated world beater in his prime and come to a factual conclusion that he did w/o him being caught. You don’t need the same preponderance of evidence as you do in a murder trial. In this case its the law of “common sense”
Cotto margarito 1 was probably my favourite fight that didn't involve an Englishman
Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuit
Your imagination is on a par with Nazim Richardson's He claimed BLOCKS fell out of Margarito's wraps ROFLMAO Now you claim his hands were filled with "cement soaked pads" ROFLMAO I'll just ask you, like asked Richardson, Where are the cement soaked pads & the blocks????? Richardson wouldn't answer he knew he'd been exposed as a liar. Will you answer the question WHere are they???
All that was found in Margarito's wrap was a used pad & not a new one, at most a technical offense. The lab that tested it deemed it harmless although trace elements of sulpher & calcium wre discovered under a microscope. Yes Sulpher & calcium in much larger quantities are ingredients of plaster BUT are also ingredients of HUMAN SWEAT not to mention HAND CREAM
Antonio Margarito 's career & good name were tarnished by first of all a blatant lie from Nazim Richardson then conduct more in favor of the Keystone Kops by the CSAC completed the character assassination. Then to rub salt in the wounds I firmly believe Shane Mosely was juiced to the gills in that fight. Otherwise how do you explain his boundless energy & non stop punching. He didn't possess this skill in fights previous or after against Floyd where he gassed in 3 rounds. He had to be clean in that fight
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's really sad when a person can't face reality. I have no pity for that scumbag Margie but I have so much pity for his fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Cotto walked across the ring because he knew his crooked doc saved him. Cotto didn't push for a rematch until he saw Margarito's permanently damaged eye then he grew a set. He still couldn't put Margarito away even though he had only one good eye. He makes a career out of fighting cripples One legged Yuri Foreman Almost legless Sergio Martinez. Look at Margarito's damaged eye Did he quit!!! ??? NO Cotto took a knee in submission & QUIT!! He was heading to do it again till that crooked doc helped him out
No need to feel pity for scumbag Margie. He'll soon enough (if not already) be peddling the streets of Tijuana with his eye-patch telling anyone who will listen how he used to be somebody.
"I coulda been a contendah. I coulda been somebody instead of a bum... which is what I am."
Ala Marlon Brando.... ;)
His fans are another matter. They're even more blind than "One-Eye MargaCheato".
Fuck'em.
Besides....... their idol's spot on the Hall of Shame is secure.
Actually the person, you could well be describing in your ludicrous tirade , could well be Floyd 5 yrs after his final fight ( Charade)
Actually Antonio is doing very well promoting fights & handling fighters in Mexico. Tony & Michelle are doing very well thank you
Call him all the nasty names you want he just laughs at fools like you. That is the only ammunition you have to try to smear his name because the fighters you admire
1 Floyd the woman beating coward Mayweather was scared stiff of Tony & literally messed his pants when Tony confronted him
2 Miguel Cotto was forced to take a knee in submission & QUIT!!!! when Tony legitimately beat him to a pulp. Tony was fixing to do the same in the rematch but that NY doc saved Cotto the embarrassment of QUITTING AGAIN!!! when he stopped the fight on the pretence of saving Tony's injured eye. Which incidently he could not see out of since round 2. That doc knew that why did he let the fight go 8 more rounds????
Pleas go watch ice dancing or something you do not seem to understand boxing very well
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's really sad when a person can't face reality. I have no pity for that scumbag Margie but I have so much pity for his fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Cotto walked across the ring because he knew his crooked doc saved him. Cotto didn't push for a rematch until he saw Margarito's permanently damaged eye then he grew a set. He still couldn't put Margarito away even though he had only one good eye. He makes a career out of fighting cripples One legged Yuri Foreman Almost legless Sergio Martinez. Look at Margarito's damaged eye Did he quit!!! ??? NO Cotto took a knee in submission & QUIT!! He was heading to do it again till that crooked doc helped him out
No need to feel pity for scumbag Margie. He'll soon enough (if not already) be peddling the streets of Tijuana with his eye-patch telling anyone who will listen how he used to be somebody.
"I coulda been a contendah. I coulda been somebody instead of a bum... which is what I am."
Ala Marlon Brando.... ;)
His fans are another matter. They're even more blind than "One-Eye MargaCheato".
Fuck'em.
Besides....... their idol's spot on the Hall of Shame is secure.
Actually the person, you could well be describing in your ludicrous tirade , could well be Floyd 5 yrs after his final fight ( Charade)
Actually Antonio is doing very well promoting fights & handling fighters in Mexico. Tony & Michelle are doing very well thank you
Call him all the nasty names you want he just laughs at fools like you. That is the only ammunition you have to try to smear his name because the fighters you admire
1 Floyd the woman beating coward Mayweather was scared stiff of Tony & literally messed his pants when Tony confronted him
2 Miguel Cotto was forced to take a knee in submission & QUIT!!!! when Tony legitimately beat him to a pulp. Tony was fixing to do the same in the rematch but that NY doc saved Cotto the embarrassment of QUITTING AGAIN!!! when he stopped the fight on the pretence of saving Tony's injured eye. Which incidently he could not see out of since round 2. That doc knew that why did he let the fight go 8 more rounds????
Pleas go watch ice dancing or something you do not seem to understand boxing very well
Tony & Michelle?
They personal friends of yours? :D
Listen, we're not gonna get anywhere with this, so suffice it to say that you idolize a proven cheater who will always be remembered more as a cheater than anything else. He pretty much left the sport in disgrace (and one eye). Just remember..... Cheato's out of boxing. Cotto is still at the top of his sport, and headed for the HOF.
'Nough said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's really sad when a person can't face reality. I have no pity for that scumbag Margie but I have so much pity for his fans.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Cotto walked across the ring because he knew his crooked doc saved him. Cotto didn't push for a rematch until he saw Margarito's permanently damaged eye then he grew a set. He still couldn't put Margarito away even though he had only one good eye. He makes a career out of fighting cripples One legged Yuri Foreman Almost legless Sergio Martinez. Look at Margarito's damaged eye Did he quit!!! ??? NO Cotto took a knee in submission & QUIT!! He was heading to do it again till that crooked doc helped him out
No need to feel pity for scumbag Margie. He'll soon enough (if not already) be peddling the streets of Tijuana with his eye-patch telling anyone who will listen how he used to be somebody.
"I coulda been a contendah. I coulda been somebody instead of a bum... which is what I am."
Ala Marlon Brando.... ;)
His fans are another matter. They're even more blind than "One-Eye MargaCheato".
Fuck'em.
Besides....... their idol's spot on the Hall of Shame is secure.
Actually the person, you could well be describing in your ludicrous tirade , could well be Floyd 5 yrs after his final fight ( Charade)
Actually Antonio is doing very well promoting fights & handling fighters in Mexico. Tony & Michelle are doing very well thank you
Call him all the nasty names you want he just laughs at fools like you. That is the only ammunition you have to try to smear his name because the fighters you admire
1 Floyd the woman beating coward Mayweather was scared stiff of Tony & literally messed his pants when Tony confronted him
2 Miguel Cotto was forced to take a knee in submission & QUIT!!!! when Tony legitimately beat him to a pulp. Tony was fixing to do the same in the rematch but that NY doc saved Cotto the embarrassment of QUITTING AGAIN!!! when he stopped the fight on the pretence of saving Tony's injured eye. Which incidently he could not see out of since round 2. That doc knew that why did he let the fight go 8 more rounds????
Pleas go watch ice dancing or something you do not seem to understand boxing very well
Tony & Michelle?
They personal friends of yours? :D
Listen, we're not gonna get anywhere with this, so suffice it to say that you idolize a proven cheater who will always be remembered more as a cheater than anything else. He pretty much left the sport in disgrace (and one eye). Just remember..... Cheato's out of boxing. Cotto is still at the top of his sport, and headed for the HOF.
'Nough said.
Actually yes they are I first met Tony when as an unknown he met & beat the infamous Buck Smith in Ft worth Tx several years ago. We saw then he had the necessaries to go far in the sport
Once again you call him a "proven cheater" Who proved him a cheater?? No one has no one can because he never cheated. On the other hand his opponent that night Shane Mosely is a PROVEN & SELF CONFESSED EPO STEROID ABUSER. He tried to lie his way out but his name & signature on BALCO receipts forced a confession. On that night Mosely's unlimited energy & non stop punching gave him away again. You picked the wrong guy to call a cheater that night
As for Cotto ? Tony beat him to a pulp LEGITIMATELY & would have done the same again had that NY doc not saved Cotto's bacon. You say Cotto is "on top of his sport"
Whats he done lately?? He beat a journeyman Rodriguezyes. Then he beat a crippled shell of Sergio Martinez. He STILL couldn't put away Tony Margarito who was blind in one eye from round 2. That doc knew that but let him go 8 more rounds & only stopped the fight when Tony was coming on & Cotto was wilting
Of the two fighters I'd be proud to be called a Margarito fan as he always gave 110% every time in the ring. As for Cotto he turned into whining old woman blaming everyone but himself every time he got beaten. How many trainers has he had?? They were all at fault for his losses according to Cotto
Long Live Antonio The Tijuana Tornado Margarito
Cotto was smashing Margarito to bits in the second fight you must be blind to see it differently. Pun intended. :)
Tony Margarito had only one good eye from round two. Cotto tried everything he could to put Margarito away targeting his blind eye even lacing it several times with the inside of the glove. STILL!! couldn't do it. It wasn't till Cotto started to wilt & Margarito starting beating his chest that the doc decided to end the fight. The doc knew Margarito was blind in one eye from round two why did he let him go 8 more rounds???? Cotto was legitimately beaten to a pulp & made to take a knee in submission in fight 1 They wanted to save him the embarrassment of quitting AGAIN!!!
You are deluding yourself my friend. You normally talk sense but you are seeing things that did not happen. Cotton would have cruised to a point decision if he had to.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.Rock
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterYou are deluding yourself my friend. You normally talk sense but you are seeing things that did not happen. Cotton would have cruised to a point decision if he had to.Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.Rock
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on it then Master :) If you have a tape watch the fight again how Cotto goes back to his corner head down while Margarito was staring at him beating his chest. Only then did that doc want to stop the fight. Listen close to the after fight interview. The doc says " I stopped the fight because Margarito could not see out of his eye since round two" Then realizing his faux pas he added
"But it was getting worse" If a guy is blind in one eye ir round 2 why does he let him go another 8 rounds?? Sorry that's the way I see it but I'll still respect your opinion too :)