Welcome to New Jersey: check this video OUT! Opinions?

@Dia bando @Andre @Spicoli @Bill Paxtom @p4pking @walrus @TitoFan @greynotsoold @Dark Lord Al

this stuff goes down every DAY in my home state. Do you defend the cop's actions? The passenger in the car had just served 13 years in prison for firing on police officers in New Jersey in 2002. Since he was out, he had been arrested again on some minor drug charge. Could the cops have used a taser? There was a silver gun in the glove compartment and another on the dashboard that the cop saw apparently. WHAT WOULD/SHOULD A COP HAVE DONE? It is a sad case either way you slice it.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=n32bwzcWk1I

Wonder if there will be a riot over a black cop shooting a black guy?
I wonder at what point they knew he had shot at police before? My friend that was killed by police in 2013 had shot it out with them 30 years before; they would regularly say that someday they would kill him. Another friend was killed by police in 2000. He was running and they shot him off a roof, which was justified because they found a gun in his car 4 blocks away.

I don't have any fucks to give to guys who fuck around with the police like that, especially when they have a gun within arm's reach.

Driver played it right: put your fucking hands out the window.

How is it so difficult to follow instructions? You put your hands in plain view, you answer clearly, and if you even think for 1 split second that you are in legal trouble just say "I refuse to answer questions before I speak to my attorney" and just be polite....how difficult is that?

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

How is it so difficult to follow instructions? You put your hands in plain view, you answer clearly, and if you even think for 1 split second that you are in legal trouble just say "I refuse to answer questions before I speak to my attorney" and just be polite....how difficult is that?

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must be damn difficult.

This one happened in Billings last year. They were looking for that guy pretty tough- he was on a bit of a spree. They had had something like 60 calls about him in a month, and he (the guy that got shot) had shot somebody either the day before or earlier that day.
Youtube : Dashboard video: Billings police shooting

Do they believe in street lights in N.J??? If I'm a cop there I install flood lights on my roof.

Again was the guy in the passenger seat stupid, the driver done as he was told were the passenger
had a problem with simple orders,! and ended up getting shot.
I can't for the life of me understand when your told by someone with a gun, which he is pointing at
you to do as you are TOLD.
You have to be a idiot what more can I say.

its terrible though. god help us all.

Son of a notch. Seriously, what if they pull over someone and the passenger has Parkinson's and keeps twitching around and can't follow directions. What if a passenger is deaf and is reaching for his id or something. Are they justified shootings. I understand the cop is fearful for his life and not following directions from a police officer is something I wouldn't do but to shoot someone for not following directions seems extreme. If they continue to consider every police shooting of an unarmed suspect justified it is giving cops carte Blanche, I'm not necessarily talking about just these two examples but in general it seems most cases of police shooting unarmed suspects are justified

In the Billings shooting, the video apparently goes on to show the cop break down crying and hyperventilating. He said he thought the guy had a gun down by his left leg. The same officer had killed somebody else a year or so previous. In that case the guy pointed what turned out to be a pellet gun at the cop.

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

In the Billings shooting, the video apparently goes on to show the cop break down crying and hyperventilating. He said he thought the guy had a gun down by his left leg. The same officer had killed somebody else a year or so previous. In that case the guy pointed what turned out to be a pellet gun at the cop.

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well, the pellet gun incident I can see. Not that I'm for cops shooting anyone but if you have a weapon pointed at you if you take too long to determine its type you could be dead. Cases where kids pointed toy guns at kids are tragic all around. I don't have the answers but these cops should be held accountable in more of these cases to keep them on the reigns.

[QUOTE=walrus;1298649]

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

I don't have the answers

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I do: have the media and figure heads (including the president and the mayor of New York) spend less energy peddling anti-police rhetoric about the police being a bunch of crazy, racist gun slingers, and use that energy to educate citizens on the correct way to deal with police.

Know your rights, be polite, comply with what the officers tell you. It's that simple. You don't get to make your own rules when a cop has stopped your or is arresting you. You don't get to decide if you're going to be arrested or not. If you're being unfairly treated by the police, comply and then sue and get a nice fat settlement from the city afterwards. Nobody has ever argued their way out of an arrest, and nobody has ever made their situation better by resisting or disobeying orders. Cops have a dangerous, shitty job and it's become even more dangerous and shitty for them over the last year with all the negative press they got. Make it easy on them, make it easy on yourself.

That's the answer. Problem is it's not the answer most people want.

[QUOTE=Beanflicker;1298667]

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Originally Posted by walrus

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

I don't have the answers

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I do: have the media and figure heads (including the president and the mayor of New York) spend less energy peddling anti-police rhetoric about the police being a bunch of crazy, racist gun slingers, and use that energy to educate citizens on the correct way to deal with police.

Know your rights, be polite, comply with what the officers tell you. It's that simple. You don't get to make your own rules when a cop has stopped your or is arresting you. You don't get to decide if you're going to be arrested or not. If you're being unfairly treated by the police, comply and then sue and get a nice fat settlement from the city afterwards. Nobody has ever argued their way out of an arrest, and nobody has ever made their situation better by resisting or disobeying orders. Cops have a dangerous, shitty job and it's become even more dangerous and shitty for them over the last year with all the negative press they got. Make it easy on them, make it easy on yourself.

That's the answer. Problem is it's not the answer most people want.

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I didn't say that.

[QUOTE=greynotsoold;1298672]

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by walrus

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Originally Posted by greynotsoold

I don't have the answers

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I do: have the media and figure heads (including the president and the mayor of New York) spend less energy peddling anti-police rhetoric about the police being a bunch of crazy, racist gun slingers, and use that energy to educate citizens on the correct way to deal with police.

Know your rights, be polite, comply with what the officers tell you. It's that simple. You don't get to make your own rules when a cop has stopped your or is arresting you. You don't get to decide if you're going to be arrested or not. If you're being unfairly treated by the police, comply and then sue and get a nice fat settlement from the city afterwards. Nobody has ever argued their way out of an arrest, and nobody has ever made their situation better by resisting or disobeying orders. Cops have a dangerous, shitty job and it's become even more dangerous and shitty for them over the last year with all the negative press they got. Make it easy on them, make it easy on yourself.

That's the answer. Problem is it's not the answer most people want.

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I didn't say that.

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Don't make it about you, man. It's about the kids!

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Do they believe in street lights in N.J??? If I'm a cop there I install flood lights on my roof.

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That was my first reaction. Too much darkness in what is already a very tense situation. The guy can't say he wasn't warned repeatedly. These cops are making damn sure they don't get shot while pulling someone over on a routine traffic stop. I'd probably be overly cautious too. The driver did what he was told... sticking his hands out the window. The other one didn't, and ignored repeated warnings. Maybe a taser right off the bat would've avoided the death.

Right or wrong it's still overkill, that amount of shots and one in the back too eventually,something is wrong.

I get the feeling cops now know that if the people are kept in the car, no video is going to see what the dude did or didnt do so no court will convict the cop.(like they do anyway :rolleyes:).Most times they get paid leave and at worse moved or dismissed.

Maybe a law should get passed that everyone pulled over has to have their hands out the window immediately. Or back up is called and its onto stage two where you know more drawn guns will be at your dumb fucking head.

Then "get out of the car, interlock fingers and put them on top of your head or for worse cases plastic cuff their legs and hands as well.

Then the cops get to go through your glove compartment themselves only if filming it.

Something like that, a set routine that is advertized country wide for a few months so everyone knows the stages of engagement and that has to be followed before the hell breaks loose.

Other than car chases, robberies or shoot outs then its what ever comes and you know you are into stage two already.

Seems like cops get to call when and where the shots go down most of the time, not sure thats a good idea to keep that going on the public when pulling them over, there are good and bad cops and some are chicken and some are brave too and on the other side also erratic or nervous innocent people and some disabled that need more time to react without further threat.

It seems like cops are pushing for time too and that causes anxiety in both vehicles so maybe a break down into stages is required.:-\

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Originally Posted by Andre

Right or wrong it's still overkill, that amount of shots and one in the back too eventually,something is wrong.

I get the feeling cops now know that if the people are kept in the car, no video is going to see what the dude did or didnt do so no court will convict the cop.(like they do anyway :rolleyes:).Most times they get paid leave and at worse moved or dismissed.

Maybe a law should get passed that everyone pulled over has to have their hands out the window immediately. Or back up is called and its onto stage two where you know more drawn guns will be at your dumb fucking head.

Then "get out of the car, interlock fingers and put them on top of your head or for worse cases plastic cuff their legs and hands as well.

Then the cops get to go through your glove compartment themselves only if filming it.

Something like that, a set routine that is advertized country wide for a few months so everyone knows the stages of engagement and that has to be followed before the hell breaks loose.

Other than car chases, robberies or shoot outs then its what ever comes and you know you are into stage two already.

Seems like cops get to call when and where the shots go down most of the time, not sure thats a good idea to keep that going on the public when pulling them over, there are good and bad cops and some are chicken and some are brave too and on the other side also erratic or nervous innocent people and some disabled that need more time to react without further threat.

It seems like cops are pushing for time too and that causes anxiety in both vehicles so maybe a break down into stages is required.:-\

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I can see your point Andre, but the driver of the car was able to understand simple instructions, it's
not as if your asking some one to stand on there head.
And we must remember there was a gun in the car,! also everybody seems to be carrying a gun in
the USA mate, the cop did seem on edge and extremely agitated.
We can stand and judge he should have done this or that,! but we are here nice and safe in our front
room, it's a tough one mate put your self in there shoes how things unfold, were lucky in our society
we don't have gun ho carrying public do we.!!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by Andre

Right or wrong it's still overkill, that amount of shots and one in the back too eventually,something is wrong.

I get the feeling cops now know that if the people are kept in the car, no video is going to see what the dude did or didnt do so no court will convict the cop.(like they do anyway :rolleyes:).Most times they get paid leave and at worse moved or dismissed.

Maybe a law should get passed that everyone pulled over has to have their hands out the window immediately. Or back up is called and its onto stage two where you know more drawn guns will be at your dumb fucking head.

Then "get out of the car, interlock fingers and put them on top of your head or for worse cases plastic cuff their legs and hands as well.

Then the cops get to go through your glove compartment themselves only if filming it.

Something like that, a set routine that is advertized country wide for a few months so everyone knows the stages of engagement and that has to be followed before the hell breaks loose.

Other than car chases, robberies or shoot outs then its what ever comes and you know you are into stage two already.

Seems like cops get to call when and where the shots go down most of the time, not sure thats a good idea to keep that going on the public when pulling them over, there are good and bad cops and some are chicken and some are brave too and on the other side also erratic or nervous innocent people and some disabled that need more time to react without further threat.

It seems like cops are pushing for time too and that causes anxiety in both vehicles so maybe a break down into stages is required.:-\

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Again though, we're talking about fixing a system that, for the most part, works perfectly fine. How many calls do cops have to respond to per day all over the world? Hundreds of thousands? Has to be at least tens of thousands, I'd be interested in knowing the exact number, but obviously it's a lot. So the percentage that end in a fatal shooting by the police is astronomically low. So when people talk about overhauling the entire system, I think that's overkill because 99.99% of these cases involve the guy getting shot presenting a clear threat (either actual or perceived) to the officer who shoots. I think we can all agree that attacking, threatening, or presenting a threat to a police officer is an unreasonable action. Why should we overhaul a working system to support people who act unlawfully and unreasonably? Shouldn't we concentrate on curbing the unreasonable behaviour instead? That would be my question.

Also, I've seen a lot of people comment on the number of shots the cops fired, calling it "overkill". When a cop draws his weapon and fires, that's a last resort action where a cop has to act quickly to protect himself. Their job isn't to try to shoot a guy to disable him, you shoot to kill, until the guy goes down and the threat is over. I think people in general are used to action movies where cops shoot guys in the leg or shoot a guy out of the guy's hand, and that just isn't practical.

I just think you have state borders and there needs to be a safer general approach that the public are also made aware of when traveling.

If those dudes by law had to have their their hands out of the windows in view of the camera the cops couldnt have an excuse to shoot them could they? Its an obvious win /win situation and it is simple.

You dont comply you know theres a gun pointed at your head = level two.

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Originally Posted by Andre

I just think you have state borders and there needs to be a safer general approach that the public are also made aware of when traveling.

If those dudes by law had to have their their hands out of the windows in view of the camera the cops couldnt have an excuse to shoot them could they? Its an obvious win /win situation and it is simple.

You dont comply you know theres a gun pointed at your head = level two.

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I think people would find that invasive and/or oppressive though, and rightfully so. The vast majority of police stops are for simple traffic violations so it would be overkill in those situations. And then you'd have people not putting their hands out the window for whatever reason (forgot, deaf, whatever) and getting roughed up by police on those grounds. People would be pissed.

Personally I don't think there are enough murderous cops out there to try to overhaul the system. Even in assuming there are cops out there just itching to kill somebody, they have to know that when they pull the trigger on someone, even if they know they will be cleared by the courts and won't face legal repercussions, their lives are never going to be the same. They are most likely going to be subject to national scrutiny, have their picture and name blasted all over global television and the internet, and have people making death threats/harassing them and their families. It's highly undesirable for any cop to shoot someone I would think. Cops don't want to do it, don't give them a reason to IMO.