there used to be super stars that we all could admire
there used to be super stars that were always on fire
now there is only mediocrity
Now there is only average-ness
and settling for less oh what a mess
Printable View
there used to be super stars that we all could admire
there used to be super stars that were always on fire
now there is only mediocrity
Now there is only average-ness
and settling for less oh what a mess
bring back Aaron the hawk Pryor bring back Alexis Arguello bring back Sugar Ray Leonardand can we please have a brand new Mike Tyson or how about a young Lennox Lewiswe could use an exciting fighter like Oscar dela Hoya or even Felix Trinidad oh hell I would even accept at this point a young Fernando Vargas
Boxing on free has a lot to do with making fans of the sport and making fighters household names and become super stars.
I respectifully disagree. Every era has it's superstars. When we look at boxing history we often name drop stars but most of the time they are not all from the same era. The obvios for the past decad it's been Mayweather and Pacquiao. Taking the mega stardom role over from Oscar.
There are many local boxers that enjoy stardom and a few that are crossing borders. Alvarez, Cotto and Chavez are few local names that cross borders. Triple G is already selling out 5,000 seat venues and if he keeps knocking out his opponents, he'll certainally be the next mega superstar.
IMO a boxing star is one that can sell out a local boxing venue (5,000 seats) and A fighter that can sell over 300,000 ppv's is a superstar. Unfortunately local boxing stars aren't promoted until a network takes notice. So guys like Crawford aren't going to cross borders until they fight someone who is and wins. Until then, the networks aren't going to follow them unless the producers see something in the fighter.
Not talking about ppv sales or media coverage.
Boxing is still doing okay, but the top fighters should fight more or else bring back 15 round contests. A 12 rounder is like a 3 sets tennis match. A 15 rounder is a 5 setter for the real men and the champions. Also, this fighting once or twice a year carry on isn't enough. 3 fights a year and fight the best. Manny and Floyd are likely turning people off of the sport too at this stage with their girly behavior.
One reason is because there no more super-star coaches, maybe ex-fighters like Roy Jones or Shane Mosley, even Floyd Mayweather will contribute as coachesQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Floyd Mayweather will not be able to be a boxing coach because he will be in jail by that time. In fact he will be in jail before he has the chance to break Rocky Marciano's recordQuote:
Originally Posted by NVSeminOne reason is because there no more super-star coaches, maybe ex-fighters like Roy Jones or Shane Mosley, even Floyd Mayweather will contribute as coachesQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
For loading his gloves against MannyQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustFloyd Mayweather will not be able to be a boxing coach because he will be in jail by that time. In fact he will be in jail before he has the chance to break Rocky Marciano's recordQuote:
Originally Posted by NVSeminOne reason is because there no more super-star coaches, maybe ex-fighters like Roy Jones or Shane Mosley, even Floyd Mayweather will contribute as coachesQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
They use to sizzle like bacon in a pan.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Now they fizzle like that cheap ass candy called pop rocks in ya mouth & hand.
Well there's a few reasons...boxing is less followable today, you have to seek it out instead of it just being there on a Friday/Saturday night or Tuesday/Thursday when USA was showing it. Also there are a lot of pros protecting their 0's instead of fighting a live body and the other guys, the guys who have a few losses here and there, they are just completely written off as good quality boxers.
Basically it has to do with boxing turning itself into a fringe sport because no other sport made boxing worse, boxing screwed boxing and it'll have to unscrew itself for us to have it back completely.
Internet is easy access and yet boxing can't even use (that) to its advantage.
Was going to say they need to have a rivalry to be a superstar but look at Tyson. To a small extent he had Mitch Green I spose. He was pure excitement though.
Look at the recent Saunders v Eubank fight, rivalries sell and make you a bigger name.
You need a personality and you need a rival.
MMA has taken boxing's thunder.
Roy Jones Jr is training Jessie Vargas, Jones is a natural coach. I read somewhere that Mosley's son Shane Mosley Jr. was Mosley's second prospect. I also read when Mosley retired, he's plans were to focus on being a trainer. I always see him helping out the young prospects in the Gym when his training was televised locally. Now of course that's focus is delayed.Quote:
Originally Posted by walrusFor loading his gloves against MannyQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustFloyd Mayweather will not be able to be a boxing coach because he will be in jail by that time. In fact he will be in jail before he has the chance to break Rocky Marciano's recordQuote:
Originally Posted by NVSeminOne reason is because there no more super-star coaches, maybe ex-fighters like Roy Jones or Shane Mosley, even Floyd Mayweather will contribute as coachesQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
I'm pretty sure you can see Floyd doing the same thing with very young fighters in his gym but I doubt he'll go on to be a trainer unless he ends up broke.
Packed arenas every time out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
They have packed arena at WWE does not mean it is any good, probably free tickets.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraePacked arenas every time out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Sad as it sounds. The lack of superstars has to do with the condition of the stage. Boxing used to require, skills, intent, passion and drive. The sport as a whole has become a shell of its former self. Its too easy to get into the sport now and get out with a pocket full of money regardless of the performance you give.
We used to have fighters, now we have athletes that are volume punchers. We used to have davids that sought out goliaths and catapulted themselves to the top by upsetting them, now we have fighters waiting for other fighters to get old so they can fight them in that small window where youth trumps reflexes and stamina but everyone still reveres the old guys name.
The fans are so starved for throwbacks that we accept almost anyone in hopes that they will excite us and revive the sport. Gym rats are not enough, Tough men are not enough and scientists are not enough. There used to be a spirit there. Warriors that were in it for the reckoning and accepted nothing short of conquering. Those guys have been replaced by half A$$ers who think that since the NBA and NFL is showering players with huge contracts, that they should be able to self promote and then walk into the ring and make millions for a nights work. This new breed of boxer (technical term) also believes that being a giant, banger, volume puncher with no accuracy, or a fleet footed pitty patter should be enough as long as you have a way to make yourself look interesting. There are so good fighters now that stand out and are still looking to be complete fighters. Golovkin... Kovalev... Lee... Walters... porters show interest in picking up the pieces, among others....
If you want a reason. Start with money. Not saying fighters were better when they were poor and fighting long enough to get brain damage... but there are a lot of boxers with an inflated designer record, talking money first and glory second. The artistry is gone from a good percentage of the fighters and fights now. If you look at the quotes thread we have going on, you get a sense of what some of the fighters were as people and as warriors. Sit in on an interview or press conference now and you hear..
"I don't know you, i'll have to discuss things with my manager al haymon."
"I'll fight (insert name) if the moneys right... "
"I only want the big fights..."
"Im the A-side... you're the B-side"
plus:
-Fighters shamelessly relinquishing belts to avoid unifications...
-Fighters using catch weights.
-Fighters suggesting that paying a fine should take the place of a clean test so they don't lose their purse for being roided up
It may very well be because we-they insist on making every flashy but realistically mediocre kid into one before its due. Fighters come from roots and build up, exposure and as far as availability its almost an overload compared to 20+ yrs ago. So much that many of the 'weekly' network cards are not often talked about ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraePacked arenas every time out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Has it fuck, who watches MMA?
couple of mongs down the pub
MMA is shit, its like a really shit boxing fight ever time
Got to agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraePacked arenas every time out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Has it fuck, who watches MMA?
couple of mongs down the pub
MMA is shit, its like a really shit boxing fight ever time
I'm not so sure. The thing I notice with MMA that use to happen in boxing is the possibility of a unheralded guy upsetting a superstar on a more regular basis. Due to the wide variety of skills involved, there are tactics to deal with the fast money one trick ponies. Take someone like Wilder for instance. Athletic, but realistically has made a career of a jab and an overhand right with his size. This guy would have been taken down and pounded or choked out within the first minute of an MMA fight. There's counter techniques that are part of a regular fighters arsenal; the bangers can get submitted by the ground and pound guys, the jujitsu can choke or lock a ground and pound wrestlers, The jujitsu guys can get banged out by the strikers. So everyone works on their skills so they have another level to go to when they're out of their depth. That's why guys like kimbo, mercer, toney, mayorga and lesnar didn't really find longevity there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraGot to agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraePacked arenas every time out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Has it fuck, who watches MMA?
couple of mongs down the pub
MMA is shit, its like a really shit boxing fight ever time
Low level guys aren't making a whole lot but have a chance to with incentive based bonuses. Knockout of the night, submission of the etc. Can you imagine what it would do for a floyd/ pacquiao fight if there were stipulations that said may its a 60/40 may split but pacquiao gets a 10% bonus if he knocks out floyd. MMA is finding ways to make sure the guys who want it bad enough, get it.... and the ones who don't get what they deserve.. whether its knocked out, choked out, or a plane ticket home.
Spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I think there are few fighters around with the charisma & likeability to be major stars, but nobody has ever heard of them.
I can only speak from a UK perspective, but boxing is not mentioned on the main news at all & the sports stations/channels only really concentrate on the major UK fighters in big fights, much like the recent Froch -v- Groves fights.
If MMA is a real threat to boxing why did James Toney literally earn double what "MMA legend" Couture did when they fought?
In fact, I'm too lazy to check but who has earnt more than Toney for one fight in MMA?
Boxing has money because it has more viewers.
Couture earnt a poxy half million dollars for that fight, which isn't too bad for a rugby tackle.
Now look at some boxing superstars. In 1988 fucking 27 years ago Mike tyson earnt $20 million!! An MMA fighter will never ever earn that for a single fight. In fact Jon Jones career earnings are half of that single fight!
#1. I said packed arenas. Watching it on t.v. & being there are two different things. Can you figure that one out? think for a second....I'll wait....:(Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Has it fuck, who watches MMA?Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraePacked arenas every time out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
couple of mongs down the pub
MMA is shit, its like a really shit boxing fight ever time
Okay.
#2. Your opinion on what you think about it- is about the same as mines. So...look @ my opinion. Oh, Fuck...I didn't give one did I?:rolleyes:
#3. For you & anyone else who thinks the argument is MMA is replacing Boxing. No. Mines is simple: Boxing isn't doing what it use to, especially here in the states. Why else is this thread in existence?
Think about it for a second...I'll wait......
Here is one estimate- per MMA to sherdog:
For UFC:
13 pay-per-view in 2012 = approximately 5.7 million buys
16 pay-per-view-in 2011 = approximately 6.4 million.
On about 400,000- 438,000.
I don't have the recent year- but the year Floyd fought Cotto:
1. Boxing - May 5 - Floyd Mayweather vs. Miguel Cotto 1,500,000
2. Boxing - December 8 - Manny Pacquiao vs. Juan Manuel Marquez 1,150,000
3. UFC 148 - July 7 - Anderson Silva vs. Chael Sonnen 925,000
4. WWE WrestleMania - April 1 - The Rock vs. John Cena 715,000
5. UFC 145 - April 21 - Jon Jones vs. Rashad Evans 700,000
5. UFC 154 - November 17 - Georges St-Pierre vs. Carlos Condit 700,000
5. Boxing - June 9 - Manny Pacquiao vs. Timothy Bradley 700,000
Now the above is for those who kept re-writing my statement which dealt with gate/ticket sells, NOT PPV events.
Find boxers who sells thousands of seats & that's probably Wlad-over seas. Froch over seas.
Who sells thousands here? JCC jr? yeah if he's in Texas aka Texaco USA.
Hopkins can't Bradley Stivernne coming here can't. Ward only in his home city. Connecticut-where you @ Walrus? They do plenty of fights there, but are they 10thousand venue seats? Since Gatti when was the last time we had a sellout event at Atlantic city?
Pac or PBF fights here in Vegas, who here can afford a ticket? Not one of ya'll asses is getting a ticket outside the nosebleed seats.
MMA is selling out here & in Mexico
Sold-Out UFC 180: Velasquez vs. Werdum To Air in 400 Theaters Across the Nation | MMAWeekly.com
Velazquez sold out. Not a tiny ass 3,200 venue place either.
UFC 129 55k sold
UFC 129 Sold Out, Shatters Records With 55,000 Tickets | MMAWeekly.com
UFC 124: St-Pierre vs. Koscheck 2 23,152 fans.
The previous gate record for a UFC event was $5.4 million Dec. 30, 2006 at MGM aka PBF-ville
This link below shows that MMA generates the same ridiculous prices for top seats. SO once again I end with what I started with: Packed arenas every time out
UFC 167 high-dollar ticket sales means 20th Anniversary show is most 'in-demand' event in Zuffa's history - MMAmania.com
& for the record: Ali is a lot to blame.
One didn't have to be charismatic to be a champ. He changed that. to a fault IMO.
Joe Louis was the antithesis: quiet, humble & the nation loved him. Since then Aliitis has fucked with the PBF's, Broners & Khans of the world.
Ray Leonard succeeded him & captivated us to the point we gave him forgiveness on fights he got his ass whooped in. SRL vs Hearns for 12 rounds...and a draw the 2nd time? That was Aliitis in those judges there.