Larry Holmes- Championship run needs revisiting?

Now, I don't wanna shit on Holmes. But he talks too much shit, and his record as a Champion needs a little revisiting. He always talks about not having his "just due", but just take a look at his record post winning the title against Ken Norton- a fight that could have gone either way and a fight where he never gave Norton a rematch:

Evangilista, Occasio, Weaver, a young and inexperienced Bonecrusher, Zanon, Ledoux, Ali when Ali was near brain dead, Spinks (when Spinks couldn't beat a brain dead Ali the second time around), Berbick before time, couldn't stop Tex Cobb, Scott Frank, David Bey, and a host of other spotty shit fights.

He nearly got knocked the fuck out vs Witherspoon, the best out of the lot before he got to Mike Spinks, and should have lost that one.

Holmes talks a lot of shit, but the guys he is bragging about on his record can't get in the ring with Ali in his prime, let alone get past the first 5 rounds.

Larry is one of the best ever.

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

Now, I don't wanna shit on Holmes. But he talks too much shit, and his record as a Champion needs a little revisiting. He always talks about not having his "just due", but just take a look at his record post winning the title against Ken Norton- a fight that could have gone either way and a fight where he never gave Norton a rematch:

Evangilista, Occasio, Weaver, a young and inexperienced Bonecrusher, Zanon, Ledoux, Ali when Ali was near brain dead, Spinks (when Spinks couldn't beat a brain dead Ali the second time around), Berbick before time, couldn't stop Tex Cobb, Scott Frank, David Bey, and a host of other spotty shit fights.

He nearly got knocked the fuck out vs Witherspoon, the best out of the lot before he got to Mike Spinks, and should have lost that one.

Holmes talks a lot of shit, but the guys he is bragging about on his record can't get in the ring with Ali in his prime, let alone get past the first 5 rounds.

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Hey I shit on Holmes all the time. He's nothing but a bitter, whiny, racist, "nobody loves me" jerk, who gets too much credit for what he did during his career. His shining moment came against Great White Hope Gerry Cooney... and he's never let anyone forget that. He as much as anyone made everything about race. F*ck Holmes.

Oh.... and he didn't have lethal power in both hands. (Private joke between Bean and me).

;)

One thing about Holmes is that until the end unlike lewis, wlad etc he never got taken out by one of his average-good opponents - cut it close but never lost until the very end of his reign

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Originally Posted by oakleyno1

One thing about Holmes is that until the end unlike lewis, wlad etc he never got taken out by one of his average-good opponents - cut it close but never lost until the very end of his reign

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Good point. Say what you want about Holmes or his record(although he fought everyone he could have), but he was an extremely hard man with incredible will to win, and a clean fighter to boot. He fought his way through every instance he was in big trouble, what more can you really ask for in the ring. The only other HW I can think of who has come back to win in similar fashion, after being so badly hurt in a fight, is Evander Holyfield. Speaking of him, Holmes did damn well in their fight when he was ancient, that could have even gone the other way.

Larry Holmes

All he did was win, without controversy.

Let's not forget, he fought Ken Norton with a bad bicep.

He could have 'side-stepped' that bout, and waited for his bicep to heal, but
he took the risk and won in a great display of heart and determination.

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Originally Posted by ykdadamaja

Now, I don't wanna shit on Holmes. But he talks too much shit, and his record as a Champion needs a little revisiting. He always talks about not having his "just due", but just take a look at his record post winning the title against Ken Norton- a fight that could have gone either way and a fight where he never gave Norton a rematch:

Evangilista, Occasio, Weaver, a young and inexperienced Bonecrusher, Zanon, Ledoux, Ali when Ali was near brain dead, Spinks (when Spinks couldn't beat a brain dead Ali the second time around), Berbick before time, couldn't stop Tex Cobb, Scott Frank, David Bey, and a host of other spotty shit fights.

He nearly got knocked the fuck out vs Witherspoon, the best out of the lot before he got to Mike Spinks, and should have lost that one.

Holmes talks a lot of shit, but the guys he is bragging about on his record can't get in the ring with Ali in his prime, let alone get past the first 5 rounds.

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One of over a dozen to chin Shavers as well.

120-108 120-108 119-109

At least one 'one' judge was feeling ~charitable

Don't you think that a shutout win over the most powerful entity in the universe deserves some mention?

Man I wish ICB was still here so he could tell his tale of Larry Holmes visiting him in a dream and telling him how to throw a jab like it was a whip.


I think the truth was he once got a glimpse of Kelly Holmes doing a presentation at a local Athletics club.

Other than being one of the greatest of all time Larry has provided boxing with some of the best moments, like doing a diving dropkick off a car onto Berbick and a couple of police men, or getting into an argument with Marciano's brother and telling him that Rocky couldn't carry his jockstrap, and if his feelings were hurt, "so fucking what". He really is the greatest.

Meh... I don't know about "greatest".
He's certainly the sport's biggest asshole, though.
That spot is secure.

Do not be criticising Larry’s record he fought some good and under rated competitors, showed great heart and chin and gave everything he had in the ring. The fact that after his KTFO by Tyson loss he came back and beat an undefeated Mercer, had close losses to champions McCall/Holyfield and Big Foreman avoiding him shows what a great fighter he was. Number 3 of all time.

Go Larry- Edit

Point of clarification gents.....who was Larry Holmes' rival? People go on and on about how a great fighter needs a rival, well who was Larry's biggest rival? Same question for Mike Tyson while we are at it.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

People go on and on about how a great fighter needs a rival

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Anyone who says a great fighter NEEDS a rival is a dipshit cunt tit.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Point of clarification gents.....who was Larry Holmes' rival? People go on and on about how a great fighter needs a rival, well who was Larry's biggest rival? Same question for Mike Tyson while we are at it.

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Spinks :)

Eddie Murphy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8b7n9U6D3Y


MAH NAME AH LARRY HOLME. MY FAVORITE SOUP.... AM THE CAMPBELL SOUP.

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Eddie Murphy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8b7n9U6D3Y


MAH NAME AH LARRY HOLME. MY FAVORITE SOUP.... AM THE CAMPBELL SOUP.

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;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D;D Too Funny !!

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Originally Posted by Master

Spinks :)

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So Larry Holmes, the legend that he is has a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT as his biggest rival? And he had what to say about the champions that followed him again??? ;)

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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Originally Posted by Master

Spinks :)

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So Larry Holmes, the legend that he is has a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT as his biggest rival? And he had what to say about the champions that followed him again??? ;)

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I was on about Tyson. People actually thought he had a chance against Tyson. Biggest fight in history at the time.

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Originally Posted by oakleyno1

One thing about Holmes is that until the end unlike lewis, wlad etc he never got taken out by one of his average-good opponents - cut it close but never lost until the very end of his reign

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Wait.... Rahman was a top rated American HW before he fought Lewis. He was overlooked and undervalued.

With Wlad, Ross Purity you can give him heaps of shit for. But Sanders and Brewster really weren't shit opponents.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Point of clarification gents.....who was Larry Holmes' rival? People go on and on about how a great fighter needs a rival, well who was Larry's biggest rival? Same question for Mike Tyson while we are at it.

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Holmes had two: Spinks and Weaver. He beat Weaver twice and lost to Spinks twice.

Holmes is a great boxer and proved it more so by beating young guys in the generation after him.

But Eddie Murphy does have a point. I got to hear that skit again!

Larry Holmes

"I didn't want to do it. But, I had to put an end to Muhammad Ali. Yes, I'm the man
that closed the book."

"Now, you will find Muhammad on the discount shelf in the Book Store, along the back wall."

Something to be proud of, eh?

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Something to be proud of, eh?

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Remember,

The way Cassius Clay treated Floyd Patterson.

Pay Back Is A Bitch-Slap.

Don't worry Bill, You'll get over it in a few more decades.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Don't worry Bill, You'll get over it in a few more decades.

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Never, it was a beautiful thing to watch.

That's not what I'm saying, but I guess in cloud cuckoo land you view things how you want to.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

That's not what I'm saying, but I guess in cloud cuckoo land you view things how you want to.

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I know exactly of what you were saying.

It's typical for a Cassius Clay 'Brown-Noser'.

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Originally Posted by Bill Paxtom

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

That's not what I'm saying, but I guess in cloud cuckoo land you view things how you want to.

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I know exactly of what you were saying.

It's typical for a Cassius Clay 'Brown-Noser'.

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No Bill.

It's typical for a sensible human being who does not enjoy the spectacle of seeing a fighter in a boxing ring who really has no business being there.... and being on the receiving end of physical punishment which eventually has terrible consequences on that person's health.

Nothing you say can justify the crass lack of sensitivity you've shown.

Most fighters go on far too long, Shavers was struggling with journeymen and got battered in 2 rounds in 1995... Far too old. No rational human would hold such a grudge against ANY boxer to continually gloat about it several decades after the fact.

You're intense, obsessive distain goes way beyond boxing, did you oppose the civil rights movement Bill? I'm struggling to think what else could be notable enough to not just have left a chip on your shoulder, but completely severed it.

It can't be the trash talking? Ali wasn't the first, maybe the brashest for his time but boxing has seen PLENTY of trash talking since so it can't be that?

You're an old man, so it would make sense.

First,

Nobody held a gun to the head of Muhammad Ali to get into the Ring with Larry Holmes.

Second,

It was Muhammad Ali's intention to 'embarrass' Larry Holmes as a nothing fighter.

Third,

Muhammad Ali was 'jealous' that another fighter took away the spotlight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNeqTDJAMh0

"I want all the viewers at home to know... That Larry Holmes is very rich." hahah the post fight interview of this one always cracked me up.

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Originally Posted by AdamGB

Most fighters go on far too long, Shavers was struggling with journeymen and got battered in 2 rounds in 1995... Far too old. No rational human would hold such a grudge against ANY boxer to continually gloat about it several decades after the fact.

You're intense, obsessive distain goes way beyond boxing, did you oppose the civil rights movement Bill? I'm struggling to think what else could be notable enough to not just have left a chip on your shoulder, but completely severed it.

It can't be the trash talking? Ali wasn't the first, maybe the brashest for his time but boxing has seen PLENTY of trash talking since so it can't be that?

You're an old man, so it would make sense.

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I'm thinking Bill was around for Ali's peak years. Maybe even old enough to have served in Vietnam... and holds a lifelong grudge against Ali for not having stepped forward when drafted.

The three points he puts forth after your post are nothing that can't be said about countless other fighters who choose to fight on for too long. So basically, nothing explains Bill's obsession with Ali but pure hatred, the kind that only comes from having a personal nerve touched in some way. I'm staying with the Vietnam theory until proven otherwise.

I understand what Bill is saying. Muhammad Ali was so offensive and disrespectful to one of the greatest fighters of all-time ARCHIE MOORE, really disrespectful. And Muhammad Ali was also tremendously disrespectful and hurtful to Joe Frazier, really over-the-top, and also as Bill pointed out to Floyd Patterson, who was ALWAYS A GENTLEMAN and a model citizen. Ali definitely went too far with his hurtful comments to people. So I think what Bill is saying is that it is a bit satisfying to see the loudmouth bully get his lil' ass whipped.

I understand @AdamGB that is does look like a grudge.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

I understand what Bill is saying. Muhammad Ali was so offensive and disrespectful to one of the greatest fighters of all-time ARCHIE MOORE, really disrespectful. And Muhammad Ali was also tremendously disrespectful and hurtful to Joe Frazier, really over-the-top, and also as Bill pointed out to Floyd Patterson, who was ALWAYS A GENTLEMAN and a model citizen. Ali definitely went too far with his hurtful comments to people. So I think what Bill is saying is that it is a bit satisfying to see the loudmouth bully get his lil' ass whipped.

I understand @AdamGB that is does look like a grudge.

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Only Frazier transcended beyond the ring. Ali had names for everybody. He called Liston the Bear. I have to think everyone else besides Frazier understood that Ali was just being a character, one who brought a lot of attention to boxing. Be it from fans, or from haters who wanted for someone to shut Ali's mouth..... Ali's antics brought a lot of attention to boxing. Attention that carried on through the wonderful 70's and 80's.

Wanting to see Ali get whipped is one thing, and quite normal enough. To be glad about Ali suffering from Parkinson's as a result of the extreme beating he took waaaaaaay beyond his time against Holmes is quite another.

On the other hand, I've always been a Holmes hater. Whereas Ali's taunts always had a touch of clowning and hardly taken seriously (again, except for Frazier)...... Holmes spent his entire career lashing out and whining about his perceived lack of attention. The fact that he climbed the ring and beat up on a practically mummified Ali speaks volumes in and of itself.

It's no one's fault that Holmes happened to arrive after Ali, and probably forgotten soon after Tyson showed up. He (Holmes) had his career. Like he liked to say..... the only color he cared about was green. Although now that I think about it, I can't say whether he was talking about money..... or actually talking about envy. Coincidence?

Bottom line to me is.... you can hate a fighter.
But to be glad of his injuries or illnesses..... that's something else altogether.

I agree Tito. Im def not glad of any boxer's injury or illness. Or any creature's for that matter. I have a soft spot for all creatures.

Ali was a jerk, Larry was a dick. It is what it is haha

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

Eddie Murphy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8b7n9U6D3Y


MAH NAME AH LARRY HOLME. MY FAVORITE SOUP.... AM THE CAMPBELL SOUP.

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Great way to start the boxing day- Eddie On Larry.

F- you.
F- him
& F- the judges hahahaa