What do you think would have happened if Canelo had chosen to brawl against Floyd?
Personally, I don't think the result would have been any different. As we saw later in the Lara fight, Canelo is terrible at cutting off the ring, and is flat-footed.
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What do you think would have happened if Canelo had chosen to brawl against Floyd?
Personally, I don't think the result would have been any different. As we saw later in the Lara fight, Canelo is terrible at cutting off the ring, and is flat-footed.
I don't get why people keep saying "had chosen to", in reality it was Floyd who didn't ALLOW HIM TO, his defense was too tight and Canelo didn't know how to deal, so he just got beat up, it wasn't that he abandoned his gameplan it was that he wasn't good enough to execute it, plain and simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Floyd is great at making his opponents fight his fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesI don't get why people keep saying "had chosen to", in reality it was Floyd who didn't ALLOW HIM TO, his defense was too tight and Canelo didn't know how to deal, so he just got beat up, it wasn't that he abandoned his gameplan it was that he wasn't good enough to execute it, plain and simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
I really thought Canelo would win this and stayed up all night in the dream that he would be too big and strong. Floyd fought his best fight which was hit and not get hurt, unlike his approach to Cotto where he traded, and Canelo could do nothing to get to Floyd. I was very disappointed in Saul.
Diddo.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_AddictFloyd is great at making his opponents fight his fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesI don't get why people keep saying "had chosen to", in reality it was Floyd who didn't ALLOW HIM TO, his defense was too tight and Canelo didn't know how to deal, so he just got beat up, it wasn't that he abandoned his gameplan it was that he wasn't good enough to execute it, plain and simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
I did think Canelo would at least put a hurtin on Floyd but Floyd made Canelo look like a ten year old flailing at the wind. I think the frustration level just overwhelmed him. He would probably look a little better against Floyd at this stage of his career but I wouldn't expect the end result to be different. God that was a horrible fight.
I don't recall a gameplan beyond 'Stand back and let him pot shot me all night'. Boring fight.
Not having a game plan and not being allowed to utilise one are too different things Miles... Like most other people, he was baffled when he was actually stood in front of Floyd.
So, what was the gameplan? I saw a method from the likes of Cotto, Maidana, and even Hatton against Mayweather, but I cannot for the life of me figure out what Canelo was trying to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
I think he actually went in with the idea of out boxing Floyd which was ludicrous but that's what it looked like the first few rounds. Your right, he should have tried to muscle Floyd like Maidaina and Cotto did with some success but Floyd still would have whooped him. Wasn't that the CJ Ross night, I remember one of the judges gave a draw or something ridiculous but I'm not sure who it was.
Canelo has trouble with slick fighters and isn't a complete or multidimensional fighter. Canelo fights best as a counter puncher boxing off his back foot and Floyd took that gameplan from him in the first minute. I also feel that in addition to his shortcomings in skill, Canelo also froze on the big stage, staring across the ring at the best in the business.
The guy to beat Floyd will have to catch him on the right night and have multiple dimensions to win. Castillo was the much larger and physically superior/stronger fighter, but also had the ability to stay busy, jab effectively and discipline to attack Floyd's body while ignoring what was coming back. Not many, if any, guys can duplicate that fight and those dimensions to the level necessary to beat Floyd.
Manny is ridiculously fast, is awkward and hits very hard. It won't be enough to beat Floyd, who will adjust at the halfway point and take over the rest of the way. Maybe, slim chance, Manny cones in hyped up while Floyd gets old and he ekes out a decision. Can't see any other way Manny wins that one...
I think they expected Floyd's legs to be shit. They looked terrible the fight before so they partially had reason to suspect his legs to be crap. I think that is why Pac is eager to fight now, because Floyd's legs looked shit against Maidana. Perhaps that is a trap Floyd pulls.
It seemed Canelo wanted to make Floyd initiate and he would counter. I think they expected Floyd to be quick but not so quick. Like when Floyd would throw the right people often throw the left hook which Floyd easily ducks and exits right. It appeared they knew they couldn't catch him with the hook because repeatedly he skipped the hook and tried the uppercut as Floyd was ducked but he was too slow on this.
It has to be questioned how much of his attack was stolen simply by making weight. Similar to Cottos weight vs Manny and how Cotto never again faught so low, Saul has never gone so low again either. And there is almost certainly a reason neither fighter has gone so low again. It doesn't work for their bodies and they felt that.
In the end when the game plan won't solve all problems spacial awareness will. That's where Floyd wins, if you are here he knows you will do X, if you are there he knows you will do Y, and if you don't initiate he will sucker you into the situations he wants. That's why people stop moving their hands, they realize he knows what they are going to do and they will miss and get hit. Nobody wants to get hit by a guy that they can't hit.
That's not the way I remember that fight. In Canelo's own words, "I couldn't find him.". He was trying hard, but Floyd was never where he was supposed to be, plus as you already pointed out, Canelo was eating a steady flow of punches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
An embarrassing nite for Canelo and an easy nite for Floyd.
Canelo is a great combination puncher but he has very heavy feet and doesn't close distance well at all.
Yeah but you can say the same about any fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I think people are way too hard on Canelo. His last four fights were Trout, Floyd, Angulo and Lara. So that's Floyd, Angulo (a gimme to get his confidence back), and two southpaw runners/slicksters. Nobody looks good against Floyd, nobody looks good against Lara, and the only guy who looked good vs Trout was Lara. Trout and Lara are two guys nobody wants to fight, and Canelo took them both on and got the job done.
It's always funny to hear people talk about fighting Floyd like the guys he fought had the choice of how the fight was going to go, and somehow chose wrong. The truth is nobody gets to fight the fights they want to against Floyd. Castillo got to fight his a lot in their first fight and Maidana did too, but other than that Floyd has dictated the terms in all his bouts.
It was a whitewash. Boxing's equivalent to a perfect game in baseball.
Why keep sugarcoating it?
:poke:
did floyd just fancy allowing maidana to?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesI don't get why people keep saying "had chosen to", in reality it was Floyd who didn't ALLOW HIM TO, his defense was too tight and Canelo didn't know how to deal, so he just got beat up, it wasn't that he abandoned his gameplan it was that he wasn't good enough to execute it, plain and simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
You are right, Floyd is not cooperative when it comes to his fights. He has winning ways and sticks to them, contrary sucker in my opinion!Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerYeah but you can say the same about any fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I think people are way too hard on Canelo. His last four fights were Trout, Floyd, Angulo and Lara. So that's Floyd, Angulo (a gimme to get his confidence back), and two southpaw runners/slicksters. Nobody looks good against Floyd, nobody looks good against Lara, and the only guy who looked good vs Trout was Lara. Trout and Lara are two guys nobody wants to fight, and Canelo took them both on and got the job done.
It's always funny to hear people talk about fighting Floyd like the guys he fought had the choice of how the fight was going to go, and somehow chose wrong. The truth is nobody gets to fight the fights they want to against Floyd. Castillo got to fight his a lot in their first fight and Maidana did too, but other than that Floyd has dictated the terms in all his bouts.
Did Floyd have any problems with him in the rematch? When Maidana fought the exact same fight?!, Floyd underestimated him, plain and simple, and that's not helping out Canelo's case of being limited and one dimensional, seeing how a small welterweight who's older still put up a better fight than he ever didQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44did floyd just fancy allowing maidana to?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElTerribleMoralesI don't get why people keep saying "had chosen to", in reality it was Floyd who didn't ALLOW HIM TO, his defense was too tight and Canelo didn't know how to deal, so he just got beat up, it wasn't that he abandoned his gameplan it was that he wasn't good enough to execute it, plain and simpleQuote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
That was the strange think about it Floyd did not have to ask for Canelo to come at 155lb. It slightly discredits his achievement. I think he chose to fight aggressively against Cotto because he was smaller and slighter shop worn. I think Floyd wanted a stoppage and took chances against Cotto which he would not risk against Alvarez.
Cotto went at Floyd, forcing his hand. Canelo sat back and tried to (cough) box with Floyd. Huge difference. I don't know what Floyd was expecting from Cotto, but he probably didn't expect to be pressured in that manner. He adapted well, as he always does, and the fight was hugely entertaining. No one can say for sure what would've happened had Canelo tried to press Floyd.... it would've probably still been a shutout, only that Floyd would've then had to break a sweat. Most fans enjoyed watching Floyd-Cotto and did not expect much. People expected loads from Floyd-Canelo and were hugely disappointed.
I don't think Canelo is a pressure fighter though, he never did have the stamina to fight that kind of fight, especially against a Mayweather. I think he figured he'd have more success with his jab to the head and body (supposedly the key to beat Mayweather since the DLH fight), and his power and size would wear Floyd down, but he just couldn't land anything with any consistency.