Does anyone in their right mind....
Think that RJJ was beatable between 1993-2003? This was by far the greatest championship run I have ever seen, barring the controversial disqualification loss to Montell Griffin that he avenged with a first round ko of their return match.
Jones wasn't just winning fights... not just scoring ko's or tko's... but he was shutting fighters down and out. He barely lost a round. In fact, he lost not one round except for the knockdown round against Lou Del Valle, but then came back and mopped Del Valle up for the rest of the fight. lolol...
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Everybody is beatable, every single person that has ever fought.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Ezzard Charles gets that ass all day long. Archie Moore. Eddie Booker. There are guys forever that would make him fight his ass off and he never had heart for a fight.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beenKOed
I don't think you're going to get much argument about RJJ being one of the greats.
Like many fighters, after he lost or really was beaten, he lost his confidence and seemed to be easy pickings for a time, which was a shock and hard to watch.
After Roy came down from HW and had to lose all of that weight he lost two things: Hunger and punch resistance. After being HW it was all said and done. He will be in the history books as not one of the greatest of all times, but for achieving a feat- no matter how relatively miniscule that feat was- that no one else can probably do coming up from being a MW: That is winning the HW Championship of the World.
I think that no one will break that record or accomplishment in my lifetime. Not the way HW's are set now and not the way MW's are so much smaller than they were even ten years ago.
A look at the MW division and you look at overblown Welter's for the most part. Even GGG looks small for a MW. Quillin is probably the only true legitimate MW sized fighter in the division today along with Andy Lee, but everyone else looks small.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Styles make fights and I hate to say it but Tarver would have given him problems every time out. But there is no denying that he was an artist in the ring.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
I wouldn't pick anyone in the history of boxing from 160-175 to beat him. Fastest hands p4p in the history of boxing, LEGIT one-punch KO power in both hands to the head and the body, insane reflexes, amazing footwork and range, long reach, and defensively sound. He could throw triple jabs in a split second, lead straight rights and leaping left hooks with pinpoint accuracy without getting countered. He was unorthodox and could throw punches from any angle, at any trajectory, without every throwing himself off balance.
All that being said, he's still flesh and bone and of course anyone can get beat under the right circumstances, but there's nobody that would have outboxed him. There are guys who would probably could have given him a tough fight or been dangerous and had a puncher's chance, but I can't see how anyone in the history of boxing from 160-175 could be the favourite against prime RJJ.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
He was dominant, superflous.
I'm sure we'd go down the rabbit hole by pointing out who he didn't fight -with a "well he woulda coulda beat them."
No fighter should leave stones unturned to which RJJ did.
Gerald McCellan moved up in weight to fight him-didnt happen so the champ fought Benn. Benn won that horribly reffed match and called out RJJ. RJJ ignored Benn who won & called him out.
Then there is that illegal wbc vacant title fiasco where Graciano Rocchigiani beat Nunn only to have it overturned because RJJ came back to the division. He got Mike McCallum in 1996-- 15 years in the game, maybe they could have fought in 94 it would've been more competitive? They were both SMW at that time...I think.
Vinny Pazienza great recovery from his accident, but not sure how we beat up on certain guys like Hopkins for fighting a Tito & DLH as natural WW's...they were passed their best weight class, yet once again..Paz came from LW. Gimme a break. & got stomped out by every great he fought from Greg Haugen, Hector Camacho & very average Roger Mayweather. He beat a fat chaloopa Roberto Duran, thats it. & he gest a PPV with RJJ? RJJ dominated the shit outta Paz, but so..whats the point?
James Toney's fault he tried to drop 30 plus lbs going into the fight of his life. RJJ came in shape and beat the current P4P at that time in JT. I think RJJ would've beatan JT regardless. JT at best would've had more energy IMO. But it wouldn't matter. RJJ was too quick, to freakish with reflexes and had pop to his punch & stamina to burn.
Sure, I think RJJ also could've beatan Dariusz Michalczewski, and Joe Calzgahe but he didnt want to go overseas. Now he looks ass out hypocritical for saying that. Since then: he's been to Austraila, Moscow, Krasnodar, Russia??:o And Poland and back to Russia.
Manny Steward use to critizize RJJ on his choice and timing of fights, I agree.
RJJ is probably the most talented fighter to never rate a top PPV. I think it had nothing to do with his style, for it was the shiznick!
Maybe it had something to do with the way his father, then he himself managed his career.:-\
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
He was dominant, superflous.
I'm sure we'd go down the rabbit hole by pointing out who he didn't fight -with a "well he woulda coulda beat them."
No fighter should leave stones unturned to which RJJ did.
Gerald McCellan moved up in weight to fight him-didnt happen so the champ fought Benn. Benn won that horribly reffed match and called out RJJ. RJJ ignored Benn who won & called him out.
Then there is that illegal wbc vacant title fiasco where Graciano Rocchigiani beat Nunn only to have it overturned because RJJ came back to the division. He got Mike McCallum in 1996-- 15 years in the game, maybe they could have fought in 94 it would've been more competitive? They were both SMW at that time...I think.
Vinny Pazienza great recovery from his accident, but not sure how we beat up on certain guys like Hopkins for fighting a Tito & DLH as natural WW's...they were passed their best weight class, yet once again..Paz came from LW. Gimme a break. & got stomped out by every great he fought from Greg Haugen, Hector Camacho & very average Roger Mayweather. He beat a fat chaloopa Roberto Duran, thats it. & he gest a PPV with RJJ? RJJ dominated the shit outta Paz, but so..whats the point?
James Toney's fault he tried to drop 30 plus lbs going into the fight of his life. RJJ came in shape and beat the current P4P at that time in JT. I think RJJ would've beatan JT regardless. JT at best would've had more energy IMO. But it wouldn't matter. RJJ was too quick, to freakish with reflexes and had pop to his punch & stamina to burn.
Sure, I think RJJ also could've beatan Dariusz Michalczewski, and Joe Calzgahe but he didnt want to go overseas. Now he looks ass out hypocritical for saying that. Since then: he's been to Austraila, Moscow, Krasnodar, Russia??:o And Poland and back to Russia.
Manny Steward use to critizize RJJ on his choice and timing of fights, I agree.
RJJ is probably the most talented fighter to never rate a top PPV. I think it had nothing to do with his style, for it was the shiznick!
Maybe it had something to do with the way his father, then he himself managed his career.:-\
RJJ was a hell of a fighter, and had the beating of many a fighter but he took his path of fighting
who he pleased, now he travels around the World to fight anybody strange indeed.
You would have to say he was his own man,! if or buts are now history I wonder if he had his
time again what he would have changed.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
I think he is on the road show now because he never had a chance to do it when he was in his hey-day, and trust me everyone wants to see the RJJ Showmanship come to town. It's like a circus event minus the animals... watching, even to this day, Roy clown on some hapless bum still gives me thrills.
;D
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Sure, I think RJJ also could've beatan Dariusz Michalczewski, and Joe Calzgahe but he didnt want to go overseas. Now he looks ass out hypocritical for saying that. Since then: he's been to Austraila, Moscow, Krasnodar, Russia??:o And Poland and back to Russia.
Manny Steward use to critizize RJJ on his choice and timing of fights, I agree.
Good post, Slim. My question, probably asked numerous times, is: Why didn't Roy want to go overseas? Was it a money issue? There are those who claim he was ducking European fighters, but... was he? IMO, he would've beaten the shit out of Calzaghe, hands down. RJJ in his prime was everything they've said he was..... insanely fast, super-quick hands, power in both hands, extremely athletic with great stamina. So why would he duck anybody? Was he scared to lose his "0"? He'd lost by DQ in '97, so that shouldn't have been a factor. You say he was called out several times. Is that documented somewhere? How did he respond? I'm not the biggest RJJ fan in the world, but I was a fan back then. He just doesn't seem to me to be the type to duck a fighter, especially if he thought he could beat that fighter. Maybe now, in his ripe old age and retired status, he would give some answers as to why he chose not to go overseas to fight some of these guys.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Sure, I think RJJ also could've beatan Dariusz Michalczewski, and Joe Calzgahe but he didnt want to go overseas. Now he looks ass out hypocritical for saying that. Since then: he's been to Austraila, Moscow, Krasnodar, Russia??:o And Poland and back to Russia.
Manny Steward use to critizize RJJ on his choice and timing of fights, I agree.
Good post, Slim. My question, probably asked numerous times, is: Why
didn't Roy want to go overseas? Was it a money issue? There are those who claim he was ducking European fighters, but... was he? IMO, he would've beaten the shit out of Calzaghe, hands down. RJJ in his prime was everything they've said he was..... insanely fast, super-quick hands, power in both hands, extremely athletic with great stamina. So why would he duck anybody? Was he scared to lose his "0"? He'd lost by DQ in '97, so that shouldn't have been a factor. You say he was called out several times. Is that documented somewhere? How did he respond? I'm not the biggest RJJ fan in the world, but I was a fan back then. He just doesn't seem to me to be the type to duck a fighter, especially if he thought he could beat that fighter. Maybe now, in his ripe old age and retired status, he would give some answers as to why he chose not to go overseas to fight some of these guys.
Yeah, I can defeat my own question, lol. I question those fights yet having little doubt he would've shined.
As far as the calling out: See if the Post fight Benn-McCellan is on the net.
(while doctors attending to Gerald, Benn doesn't even care about Gman'c condition. Then says if he claims the be the man after beating McCellan, then he needs to fight the best man: Roy Jones Jr.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Maybe some of the real greats could have beaten Roy but he was a joy to watch and I have never seen anything better in my lifetime. Roy was amazing.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
[QUOTE=TitoFan;1312000]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Sure, I think RJJ also could've beatan Dariusz Michalczewski, and Joe Calzgahe but he didnt want to go overseas. Now he looks ass out hypocritical for saying that. Since then: he's been to Austraila, Moscow, Krasnodar, Russia??:o And Poland and back to Russia.
Manny Steward use to critizize RJJ on his choice and timing of fights, I agree.
.
I don't think it's really hypocritical because it's completely different scenarios. Back then, he was the p4p king on top of the boxing world who had, at one point, been the victim of the worst robbery in the history of boxing when they literally stole an Olympic gold medal from him in South Korea and gave it to the home town guy, so I can see why he was apprehensive to go overseas. Now, he's an old man basically fighting exhibitions overseas for a quick pay cheque because some promoter came up with enough money.
I'm sure there are reasons why a lot of the fights didn't happen... I know the Nigel Benn fight didn't happen because Benn was handled by King, who wanted (I think) a three fight option on Roy if the fight was signed (Roy, not wanting to sign himself over to Don King, declined). Jones moved up to 175 before Calzaghe was ever a world champ, so that never could have happened. But I think the shame is guys like Eubank and Dariusz for not coming over to fight Roy. I understand that Darisuz was technically the linear champion, but Roy was looked at as not only the #1 in the division, but the #1 in the sport. Those guys should have been falling over themselves to come fight Jones and take their stab at greatness. Dariusz, Eubanks, they were warriors and I know they weren't scared of Jones. But IMO they have no confidence in being able to beat him, they already had large home fan bases where they made a ton of money per fight and packed the arenas, and they didn't want to jeopardize that by going to America and getting obliterated by Jones. Benn and Eubank were great by Jones and Toney would have handed both of them their asses.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
I don't think Byrd ever officially fought at MW. His first fight he weighed in at 169 and from there it was up, up, up. Jones spent a few years at MW.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beanflicker
I don't think Byrd ever officially fought at MW. His first fight he weighed in at 169 and from there it was up, up, up. Jones spent a few years at MW.
... and it was only one fight at Super Middle, then he did two at cruiser, then after that he remained a Heavyweight. Plus, he never won a title at Super Middle or Cruiser. RJJ won MW, Super Middle, LH, and then Heavy. The only title in that span that Jones did not take was the Cruiser... and he fights at Cruiser now and I think he wants that title.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
[QUOTE=Beanflicker;1312048]
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Sure, I think RJJ also could've beatan Dariusz Michalczewski, and Joe Calzgahe but he didnt want to go overseas. Now he looks ass out hypocritical for saying that. Since then: he's been to Austraila, Moscow, Krasnodar, Russia??:o And Poland and back to Russia.
Manny Steward use to critizize RJJ on his choice and timing of fights, I agree.
.
I don't think it's really hypocritical because it's completely different scenarios. Back then, he was the p4p king on top of the boxing world who had, at one point, been the victim of the worst robbery in the history of boxing when they literally stole an Olympic gold medal from him in South Korea and gave it to the home town guy, so I can see why he was apprehensive to go overseas. Now, he's an old man basically fighting exhibitions overseas for a quick pay cheque because some promoter came up with enough money.
I'm sure there are reasons why a lot of the fights didn't happen... I know the Nigel Benn fight didn't happen because Benn was handled by King, who wanted (I think) a three fight option on Roy if the fight was signed (Roy, not wanting to sign himself over to Don King, declined). Jones moved up to 175 before Calzaghe was ever a world champ, so that never could have happened. But I think the shame is guys like Eubank and Dariusz for not coming over to fight Roy. I understand that Darisuz was technically the linear champion, but Roy was looked at as not only the #1 in the division, but the #1 in the sport. Those guys should have been falling over themselves to come fight Jones and take their stab at greatness. Dariusz, Eubanks, they were warriors and I know they weren't scared of Jones. But IMO they have no confidence in being able to beat him, they already had large home fan bases where they made a ton of money per fight and packed the arenas, and they didn't want to jeopardize that by going to America and getting obliterated by Jones. Benn and Eubank were great by Jones and Toney would have handed both of them their asses.
I can't say I totally agree, but you got a pretty solid argument.:)
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Collins did go looking for Roy, but may only now actually get his wish to face him.
Back then, It could have been an entertaining fight while it lasted.
Roy did state that Calzaghe was too much risk for little reward for an earlier fight.
Re: Does anyone in their right mind....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
birch
If any of you have watched the Behind the Ropes programme on SkySports, Eubank admits that he did not consider himself in the same league as RJJ or Toney and was happy fighting in Britain and been rated as the best this side of the pond. I think he even went as far to say RJJ would probably have beaten him.
However, RJJ says that the only opponent he would have had issues with during the 90s was Chris Eubank, due to his style.
For what it's worth, I think RJJ wipes the floor with anybody during the 90s.
That's pretty big of Chris to admit, and I 100% believe that was also what Dariusz was doing over in Germany. If they had any real confidence in beating Roy, they would have come over and done it. When you already have a built-in fan base and you can make a ton of money fighting lighter opposition, there really isn't that same hunger to challenge a truly great fighter and risk losing the mystique you have in your own country.
Dariusz did the right thing because even to this day you still have people claiming Roy ducked him and Dariusz would have beaten RJJ. Dariusz got to fight out his career in Germany and be a folk hero. If he went over to the states and fought Jones he would have been made to look mediocre like everyone else Roy fought and it would have been gone.
