Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
I dunno why these fascinate me now. Thanks to @SlimTrae . lolol.... and I am purposefully taking the Olympic year class; i.e., 1980, 1984, 2012, etc...
So, how do these people stack up:
1980
Aaron Pryor, Champion
1. Saoul Mamby
2. Jo Kimpuani
3. Lennox Blackmoore
4. Sang Hyun Kim
5. Domingo Ayala
6. Dujuan Johnson
7. Miguel Montilla
8. Willie Rodriguez
9. Bruce Curry
10. Monroe Brooks
2012
Danny (Swift) Garcia, Champion
1. Lucas Matthysse
2. Amir Khan
3. Zab Judah
4. Juan Manuel Marquez
5. Brandon Rios
6. Khabib Allakhverdiev
7. Mike Alvarado
8. Denis Shafikov
9. Cesar Cuenca
10. Ruslan Provodnikov
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
I dunno?!?! Pryor and Curry aside, I think the 2012 p4p destroys everyone else from the 1980 list. lol.... and I'm not saying Curry beats Garcia, Khan, Matthysse either...
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Mamby was a good fighter so do not discount him.
Pryor beats them all one after the other on the same night.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Wow, Zab was ranked in 2012?!
1980's names a bit obscure, so they would be underated going in. Dujan Johnson actually was tagging Pryor in their fight if I remember. I like this video clip- because it shows how Boxing was a part of the sports landscape per telivision: CBS Brent Mussberger talking boxing right after college ball scores. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtcCtN64Us4 Dujan drops Pryor 1st round- Pryor usually was wreckless & sometimes it worked against him- But as he says: "I might get knocked down and take a count of 3,4 or 5, but my opponents get knocked out by taking a count of 8,9 or 10." Dujan was 17-0 at the time- the final clip shows that when Pryor settles down- he isnt as wild & boxes well, puts punches together in bunches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx_CCzi7VXQ Pryor has FOTY candidates with Provodnikov, Rios & Mathyyse- wins all by decision. Khan runs to a narrow loss. He Stops Alvarado. Makes Judah quit on his stool. JMM vs Pryor similar to Pryor vs Arguello- only Arguello is a (tad) bit better than JMM -due to reach. He is after all the ETM.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Looking at that maybe Pryor was not as good as I thought.
I have not heard of most of the 80's fighters but Bruce was not as good as Donald.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Danny (Swift) Garcia, Champion at this point is under rated by boxing fans- not sure why. He stacks up wel against the 80's lot. He is capable of beating Pryor- but Pryor's only loss was 10 years into his career with a pretty bad eye. To which is why he left the game.
Not sure when Mamby's prime was- he fought from 1969-2000 a four year hiatus at one point and then fought again in 2008.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuXiHVMSY_U 3:35 in video he uses a well timed right hand that would challenge most on the 2012 list. Particularly JMM- both fighters calculate and counter. It would've been a great chess match- but Mamby lost a lot of his greatest challenges.
Sang Hyun Kim under rated southpaw-most Asian fighters were - his only stoppages were to Mamby & Pryor which was at the end of his career https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEj-KjNMxVc Really difficult to look good against Perpetual Motion Pryor. I think Kim would've been the closest from 1980's to give the 2012 fighters a challenge. I thin his height & reach would've been a good test for Khan- His biggest win would've been against Khabib Allakhverdiev due to a sylistic matchup.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Looking at that maybe Pryor was not as good as I thought.
I have not heard of most of the 80's fighters but Bruce was not as good as Donald.
Pryor @ times was sloppy as heck. But when his step up came- Arguello: He not only went from wild to calm. He got accurate. It took alot to be able to beat Arguello- even at that stage of his career. And in case U weren't aware: It was Pryor who stopped Thomas Hearns from being an Olympian.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
@ Master- if U watch the 1st minute of the clip with MussBurger commentating- Ray leonard says it all: Pryor was moving up to FACE Ray. Ray says he has his number because Pryor kept calling out Ray. If you've ever seen HBO's Legendary Nights (friggin awesome show/documentary) Pryor steps up to the podium with Ray & calls him out. Ray moved up in weight. Serious man, Ray wanted no parts of Pryor.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
@ Master- if U watch the 1st minute of the clip with MussBurger commentating- Ray leonard says it all: Pryor was moving up to FACE Ray. Ray says he has his number because Pryor kept calling out Ray. If you've ever seen HBO's Legendary Nights (friggin awesome show/documentary) Pryor steps up to the podium with Ray & calls him out. Ray moved up in weight. Serious man, Ray wanted no parts of Pryor.
Pryor was good and I remember the Alex Arguello fight, amazing.
mamby was slick and very good tecnical fighter.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Looking at that maybe Pryor was not as good as I thought.
.
hahahahahaha
You don't know shit about boxing.
Typical
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Pryor vs. Matthysse would be the FIGHT OF THE CENTURY!!!
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Looking at that maybe Pryor was not as good as I thought.
I have not heard of most of the 80's fighters but Bruce was not as good as Donald.
I have revisited Pryor's career many times and i think he would've struggled against the heavy hitters like Chavez & Tszyu, i doubt he would've landed a punch on Mayweather or Whitaker. It's probably a good thing for Pryor that Duran skipped Jr Welter and went straight up to 147lbs. Pryor just gets hit way too much. His best performances were against Arguello who fought most of his career at the lighter weights of Feather, Super feather and Lightweight! He certainly was exciting, but i have re-assessed his career and he has dropped a few rungs down the ladder IMO. Still, he beats the shit out of every 2012 ranked contender.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Think Mamby in his title run...he was absolutely robbed in first attempt...does a number on the bottom five, probably a 12' Khan and Judah also. Don't judge the man on fighting in four different decades. He was schooling contenders half his age or running close into his 40's.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Monroe Brooks and Bruce Curry did not like one another and they had a war at the Olympic Auditorium.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
Monroe Brooks and Bruce Curry did not like one another and they had a war at the Olympic Auditorium.
Who won?
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
1)Pryor was a hell of a fighter, you cantell by how many things he does wrong(nearly everything) but he gets away with because he was so damn good.
2)anyone that believes Ray Leonard was afraid of Pryor should have supervision for their protection because they are not fit.
:) Have supervision for protection? Against whom, for what? That sounds kinda weird. Ray Leonard was a fighter for sure, but he is the epitome of a cherry picker's idol.
Ray's 1st defense not a calcuated decision? Cherry Picking? Just as it was mentioned with Arguello whose best fights were LW & below. So, too was Duran. A LW for 10 years @ 5'7 with a 66 inch reach-. Please let's do to Ray what we do with today's fighters like Mayweather & crew. Per boxrec: Duran beats Willington Wheatley who is 7-2-1 to get a shot @ Ray? (a fighter moving up from LW).
Now I understand that it was Dundee who stated; let Ray vs Hitman build for a year. NP. After saving himself from a decision loss by superb brawling- it would take him 8 years b4 giving Hearns the much deserved rematch. Does that mean he was afraid? Not really.
But he goes on to fight Bruce Finch- a guy that Cosell called a (club fighter fighting nobodies) seconds later Ray drops Finch. "An (A) class fighter vs a club fighter- a terrible mismatch." Was Cosell not telling the truth?
Leonard's purse was $1.3 million, while Finch got $85,000. [had to look this up]:rolleyes:
Does that sound like a fighter whose worthy of a title shot? Not even ranked top3? He cant get 100K for fighting for a belt? 10x less than the champ? Ray retires at end of year- claim: retina-
Yet he comes back 1 year later to fight Howard who had lossed 2 of his last 4 fights. Decks Ray in the 4th with a counter right & doesnt get decked- as Merchant stated " Yes he was hurt, but he was upright, the fight was stopped prematurely." Does it mean Ray took Howard because he was afraid? Wrong word- to me he took it on because was looking for fighters he felt he could beat with relative ease.
Most of the crowd couldnt sit down because they bood their asses off to the stoppage Ray got against Howard. No booties to hit chair- cause they booed their buttocks off.
So Ray retires-*again* Doesn't contemplate boxing until he & actor Michael J Fox are at the Haglar vs Mugabi fight. There Ray said- He saw a (chink) in Haglar's armour- for that reason- he comes back to fight. Not that he was medically proven capable. He didnt see any chinks in Hearns- so no 2nd fight for 8 years..
Meanwhile Pryor defeats legends Antonio Cervantes, Alexis Arguello, Sang Hyun Kim. Undefeated Aki Kameda, Dujan Johnson. Yet Ray claims he couldn't fight Pryor because he was unemployed? Couldnt fight hearns in a rematch...for 8 years? But he could fight Donny Lalonde?
here is a quote from Ray about not fighting Pryor:
“That’s a good question,” said Leonard. “I wouldn’t say that I lost anything other than time. I lost the time to have fought an Aaron Pryor, or some of the other guys who were around. Every once in a while I’ll hear someone say I dodged this guy or that guy.
“I didn’t dodge anyone – I was unemployed.”
Unemployed.:-\
Ray was charasmatic, underated power, sturdy chin, but he was a cherry pickin' mofo. Unretired when he felt he could exploit Terry Norris' chin- he got outboxed, then got his ass whooped-for 12 rounds. Oh, he could fight a short fat Duran again & again & again. Or a Camacho who started @ Super feather- boy was that embarrassing to watch. Ray didnt take on Camacho because Macho was the baddest mofo when they met- he took a calculated risk. The term we use today for that is called: cherry picker.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Aaron Pryor was a cheat....he had good old Panama Lewis in his corner
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Aaron Pryor was a cheat....he had good old Panama Lewis in his corner
Yeah. He made sure Panama would say "Gimme that bottle, the one that I mixed." Yup All Pryor!
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
greynotsoold
Monroe Brooks and Bruce Curry did not like one another and they had a war at the Olympic Auditorium.
Who won?
Gonna watch this later.... @greynotsoold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaFhZ4BZCgw
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Aaron Pryor was a cheat....he had good old Panama Lewis in his corner
Roberto no mas Duran had old Panama too.
I guess he was a cheater as well.
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Aaron Pryor was a cheat....he had good old Panama Lewis in his corner
Yeah. He made sure Panama would say "Gimme that bottle, the one that I mixed." Yup All Pryor!
did he have the bottle in the rematch??
Re: Jr. Welters- 1980 vs. 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
corvette
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SlimTrae
Quote:
Originally Posted by
El Kabong
Aaron Pryor was a cheat....he had good old Panama Lewis in his corner
Yeah. He made sure Panama would say "Gimme that bottle, the one that I mixed." Yup All Pryor!
did he have the bottle in the rematch??
Ask the person who made the allegation, not the one who responded to the allegation.
