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We're seeing more and more of these pathetic Catchweights, but what I don't understand is why these limp governing bodies don't put a stop to it. I don't hear many punters that are happy about them.
Now, I don't mean to troll , but why is it that it only happens in the States generally?
Because Freddie Roach is in the states. And 9/10 of them are his call.
I'm all in favor of eliminating catchweights. If you can't fight at a certain weight level, go up or down, whichever the case may be. It's 6-7 pounds difference in most cases. Not a stretch for a professional fighter. Fans and the media should pressure the boxing orgs to stop this catchweight nonsense.
Like now. Weightclasses are around to have a level playing field. If catchweights were used to make equal in between fights it would be one thing but they are not. They are used to have an advantage. Pac has used them to weaken his opponents. Now Cotto goes with Roach and he pulls the same maneuver. Alvarez uses them because he can't comfortably make Jr. Middleweight but he dreads being considered a middleweight because Mexican fight fans will not put up with him avoiding GGG. So he hides at 155. It's contracted cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I bet you didn't complain with Pac was doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
I did actually. Pac is one of the worst for it. to me, if you win a title, you should defend it at that weight. if not, give up the title. there's already too many weight classes, if you can't fit into one of them , it's too bad really.Quote:
Originally Posted by corvetteI bet you didn't complain with Pac was doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
Because the prima donna shit heads that demand catch weights (Pac, Floyd, Cotto, JCC Jr) are the guys that pull in BIG money, so the governing bodies are going to let them do what the fuck they want.
If you draw money in boxing you can do almost anything.
I hear you, but how the fuck do the likes of Garcia and Peterson hold the governing bodies to ransom? I mean there are plenty of other names in their division that could fight for their titles if they were stripped. it baffles me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
I don't see the problem with catchweights, they've happened throughout the history of boxing. If both parties agree what's the problem? Everyone is always looking for an edge.
Interesting that it does seem they only happen in America though?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
There are 17 divisions. Just make 10 more. Think of all the sanctioning fees.
Yes they have happened in history but nothing like the farce that is today and rarely in title fights. If you cant fight in a division because its bigger then you then get out. If you are defending a title with a maximum weight allowance, deal with it. Thats the max. If you don't like it then leave the division and fly south. The irony with this crap is that most of these guys on fight night are already fighting at a weight north of 60.
It waters down an already root rotted plant. Greb never asked Tunney to weigh 170 and Armstrong never demanded Ross weigh 140. This catchweight garbage has become a trend and has never been practiced in boxing history even close to what it has in this century.
Everybody says that these titles mean nothing. So why make it redundant? Just get rid of them.
If you want to make a superfight then make it and by all means make it a catch. Just leave the titles out of it. I mean they are meaningless right? Go all the way and go REAL p4p. Let an Armstrong weigh in under 135 for a welterweight title fight and let the best man win.
I think that a bigger problem is a guy weighing in at 142 and putting on 20 pounds by fight time.
Yeah I agree with Inuit. Leave titles the fuck out of it firstly. If you're fighting a the 160lb belt... fight for it at 160lbs, not 158 or 164.
It's not like in the old days where you have 15lbs or more separating weight classes... most classes are separated by less than half of that.
I think it's bullshit for a small guy to pull a bigger guy down to a catch weight. Hitting weight is a very precise thing, and these guys have their routines worked out to a tee. If you ask a guy to cut down another 2-4lbs, it sounds like nothing but it makes the guy adjust his tried-and-true routine and it's putting more stress on his body than it's used to. That's the point of a catch weight for a smaller guy: make a guy come in slightly weakened and weight drained so you can have an advantage. It's so stupid. If you wanna fight a guy, why not fight a guy at his best? Otherwise just shut up about it IMO.
That's a big problem too for both guys, the opponent has to fight a guy much bigger than him and there's also a danger to the guy cutting extreme amounts of weight. There's no way to get around that really though, it's just part of the sport. Guys are going to cut as much weight as they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
Mayweather fights guys bigger than him every time out, because he doesn't cut weight. When he fought Baldomir, Floyd weighed in at 146 and came to the ring at 149. Baldomir weighed 147 and came to the ring at 162.
I think they should add day of fight weigh-ins, or come up with a system to make it impossible to step into the ring dehydrated.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
The titles are basically meaningless to me, I'd rather see the best fight the best, if that means they agree on a weight that comfortably suits both then so be it.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
There are 17 divisions. Just make 10 more. Think of all the sanctioning fees.
Yes they have happened in history but nothing like the farce that is today and rarely in title fights. If you cant fight in a division because its bigger then you then get out. If you are defending a title with a maximum weight allowance, deal with it. Thats the max. If you don't like it then leave the division and fly south. The irony with this crap is that most of these guys on fight night are already fighting at a weight north of 60.
It waters down an already root rotted plant. Greb never asked Tunney to weigh 170 and Armstrong never demanded Ross weigh 140. This catchweight garbage has become a trend and has never been practiced in boxing history even close to what it has in this century.
Everybody says that these titles mean nothing. So why make it redundant? Just get rid of them.
If you want to make a superfight then make it and by all means make it a catch. Just leave the titles out of it. I mean they are meaningless right? Go all the way and go REAL p4p. Let an Armstrong weigh in under 135 for a welterweight title fight and let the best man win.
Dozens of great fighters and dozens of memorable fights throughout history have been made at a catchweight.
Gatti-Ward trilogy was at a catchweight. Does that detract from the epic story because they weighed in between 140 and 147? Of course not.
You just killed this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
That's a pretty strong argument, I could be corrected here but you could counter it by saying Hagler-Hearns and Leonard-Hearns and all the other fights in that era were for titles and NOT catchweights. I mean, we have to decide what's more important , Catchweights and putting certain fights on , or Titles. I have an open mind on it, maybe we get rid of all the governing bodies and have TV and Promoters putting on Prize fights. It's kinda going full circle really. Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
No, but when people talk about those fights they talk about the bouts themselves. Titles should be left out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
How can you be 147 champ if you won't let people fight you at 147???
There have been dozens of catchweight bouts in history, it's now closer to dozens a year.
More weight divisions, more catchweights? It makes no sense...
I'm saying the title means virtually nothing to me.
I agree it's silly that - for example - Miguel Cotto is masquerading as the middleweight champ when he's clearly not a middleweight or the best in the division. So the fact he's defending his title at a catchweight means nothing to me.
Leonard-Duran 3rd fight was a catchweight for the WBC supermiddle title. Duran weighed 158/Leonard 160
Hearns-Leonard II was a catchweight for the WBO/WBC supermiddle titles. Leonard 160/Hearns 162
Nobody is saying catch weight fights can't be great, exciting fights. And Gatti/Ward is a different case because there was nothing at stake, it wasn't about a belt or rankings, it was about seeing two guys throw bombs at each other for 10 rounds. Nothing else really mattered with that fight, you could have set the weight limit at 200lbs, nobody would have cared. It was a special attraction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
When catch weight fights get really lame are when they mean something. Usually they are made to have a bigger guy weight drain himself (DLH/Pac, Dawson/Ward, ect) or just pettiness to throw a guy off of his game.
Do I think it's fucking lame that Miguel Cotto is the lineal 160lb champ even though he's never fought at 160lbs? Yeah, and anyone who appreciates boxing and it's great history should too.
If two guys of the same size in a non title fight get together and say "hey, it's hard for both of us to make the limit, let's just set a catch weight at 2-4lbs over so we don't have to kill ourselves making the weight", I don't see a big deal with that. If you're the smaller guy and you want to fight a bigger guy, but only if he'll weight drain himself, that's a shit move IMO. Ray Robinson never demanded Lamotta come down and meet him at a catch weight: he went to 160 and beat his ass 5/6 times. Same with Leonard, he didn't request Hagler meet him at a catch weight, he went up to 160 and pulled off one of the greatest wins in boxing history.
Same day weight-ins would solve that problem real fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
Quite surprising Leonard didn't demand a catchweight against Hagler considering his history. They both weighed 158.
You'd see a lot more serious injuries though because guys are going to try to cut as much weight as possible regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedSame day weight-ins would solve that problem real fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
I did say "I could be corrected here." And I accept that :) my point was that there have many great fights that haven't been catch weight. My problem is people with titles fighting catchweight. Either you're defending your title or not? Otherwise there's no point in titles. This isn't aimed at one particular fighter, I think it just happens way too much now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Not correcting you, just highlighting how mad it looks. 158/160 fighters for a 168 title.
Chavez-Sweet Pea - P4P no.1 and 2, WBC welterweight title, 145 catchweight
Hopkins fought Oscar, Winky and Pavlik in catchweights, three of his most notable wins.
I wasn't getting funny, I just had a feeling at the back of my mind , that's why I said I might be wrong. ;D it does all look crazy though .Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Seems in a few more years, when we've all become the old geezers, catchweights will be the norm to fans watching boxing in 2018 & beyond.
Not sure who the Atomweight champ in Asia will catchweight with...