Two guys who get criticized for not punching enough: Floyd and Wlad

Let's compare these two champions, shall we?

Let's dispense with the preamble, first. Floyd is not a good role model as a human being, and is generally disliked by the general public. He gets booed even in his own home country. Wlad is a decent enough guy, very educated, and generally liked outside the boxing ring.

Ok, now let's talk about their boxing styles.

Floyd is getting tons of criticism over the Pacquiao fight.... whereas Wlad is getting criticized over his effort in the Jennings fight.
What's the difference?

Let's enumerate them:

1. Floyd is a master at defensive boxing. He's got the shoulder roll..... he's got cobra-like reflexes as he leans away from punches and then hits you with counter rights..... he uses his feet and the ring with excellent ring generalship. He'll clinch when he has to, but what boxer doesn't clinch once in awhile? It's not excessive by boxing standards. He fights defensively, but doesn't look like a scared deer in the process. He rarely fouls or wrestles his opponent.

2. Wlad has obviously retained a vivid memory of his three atrocious KO losses earlier in his career. Knowing his chin is made of fine china, he protects it in any way he can muster, legal or illegal...... pretty or ugly..... whatever the hell it takes. If it takes making a stinker of a fight, so be it. His defense against a true and aggressive puncher many times takes the form of grappling, leaning, mauling, and other awkward and annoying habits, which turn the fight from boxing into some sort of WWE bullshit.

3. Floyd has fought some very good fighters who have come to try and defeat Floyd. Look at the lineup of opponents. Even Canelo, who embarrassed himself and his fans with his complete shutout at the hands of Floyd, was actually trying to beat Floyd.

4. Most of Wlad's opponents walk into the ring as if they were death row inmates being led toward the electric chair. With a stinky bulge in the back of their trunks, and waiting for the axe to fall. When the rare opponent shows up who's not afraid to fight Wlad (like Povetkin or Jennings), Wlad proceeds to smother them, grapple with them, hold them..... etc, etc, blah, blah, ad nauseaum.



Floyd is undefeated, and Wlad hasn't been defeated in many years. Both are undisputedly the best in their divisions, and among the top p4p of current fighters. But this is where the similarities end. I'm not the biggest fan of Floyd's style, as I like a little more offense. But I'd rather watch Floyd fight ANY TIME rather than having to suffer through one of Wlad's borefests.

I didn't like the holding against Povetkin and several other opponents of the past few years, but still I prefer to watch Klitschko.

Klitschko tries to KO all his opponents. He went for the KO in the later rounds against Jennings. He stops about 80% of his opponents, many of whom are undefeated, and he has the most KO wins in title fights of any HW champion in history.

Mayweather didn't even try to stop over-matched smaller men like Guerrero, Marquez nor even an injured and faded Pacquiao.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I didn't like the holding against Povetkin and several other opponents of the past few years, but still I prefer to watch Klitschko.

Klitschko tries to KO all his opponents. He went for the KO in the later rounds against Jennings. He stops about 80% of his opponents, many of whom are undefeated, and he has the most KO wins in title fights of any HW champion in history.

Mayweather didn't even try to stop over-matched smaller men like Guerrero, Marquez nor even an injured and faded Pacquiao.

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Wrong. Did he try to KO Haye? Did he try to KO Sultan? Did he try to KO Povetkin? Haye talked insurmountable amounts of shit ahead of their fight. That alone should've been enough motivation for Wlad to shut that loud mouth convincingly. Sultan was meekly lying in wait to see if he could catch Wlad with a big counter left hand. Wlad on the other hand was aware of the left hand, and happily pawed his way to an excruciatingly nasty 12-round decision. Povetkin was there to fight.... but Wlad had other plans.

The difference is this: Wlad has the power, reach, and build to KO opponents. But he's afraid of getting his chin looked at sternly. Floyd has never been a puncher. He's a master boxer, like him or not. That's his style. Yes.... he probably should've taken out Pacquiao, to put that exclamation mark in there. But he won the way he always does. It was on Pacquiao to make the fight entertaining, the way Maidana and Cotto had done before him. But he didn't.... he failed.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

Wrong. Did he try to KO Haye? Did he try to KO Sultan? Did he try to KO Povetkin?

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Yes. Klitschko DID try to knock out those three opponents.

Haye was much more cautious than Wladimir - he seemed terrified after Wlad hurt him in the 5th round.

Sultan was being urged by Jeff Mayweather to be cautious and not get stopped. He was badly hurt at the end of the 11th round. Keep in mind, no one else ever stopped Sultan either.

Povetkin was down several times, but he has a good chin and tremendous heart.

Klitschko always tries for the KO, but it isn't easy when your opponents go into survival mode.

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When the rare opponent shows up who's not afraid to fight Wlad (like Povetkin or Jennings)

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Bryant Jennings threw 376 total punches vs Wlad, just over 31 punches a round and Alexander Povetkin threw 283 total punches vs Wlad, 23.5 per round....but those guys "came to win" ....ok TitoFan :rolleyes:


Here's the difference for you....1 fighter you EXPECT a KO with (giving or receiving), the other fighter is Floyd Mayweather Jr.. You watch who you want to watch, that's fine, you don't like Wlad then don't watch his fights, I don't like Floyd, but I respect what he does in the ring, it's not easy to do that's why he is a great fighter that's why they are both great fighters.

Wlad clenched 96 times vs. Jennings
That's avg 8 clinches per round.

Clinch avg 10 seconds..
That's 80 seconds per round just clinching
That's 1.3 min per round clinching..
41% of each round was clinching.

Some clinches were longer than 10 seconds


Wlad fights nothing like Floyd

Oh for fucks sake


Alright YOU and YOU and YOU over there all hate Wlad and this is me over here on my end not giving a fuck. Don't watch, boycott the fucking division, call up refs, ask your fucking Congressman to do something but for the love of fuck stop bitching.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Wlad clenched 96 times vs. Jennings

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Holy fuck are you serious? Wow... that's sad!

I mean I've been a fan of Wlad, I've defended him here plenty of times... but even I'm getting sick of his huggy ways!

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Wlad clenched 96 times vs. Jennings

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Holy fuck are you serious? Wow... that's sad!

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Yeah a friend compiled that and I didn't believe it so I viewed it again and did the calculations myself. Mine were a little different but I'm not going to split hairs over a point of a second or 94 times not 96.

Anyway you cut it, its pathetic. And I dont really care if people take it personally. Its not relevant.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

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When the rare opponent shows up who's not afraid to fight Wlad (like Povetkin or Jennings)

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Bryant Jennings threw 376 total punches vs Wlad, just over 31 punches a round and Alexander Povetkin threw 283 total punches vs Wlad, 23.5 per round....but those guys "came to win" ....ok TitoFan :rolleyes:

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"Came to win" as in not being scared to engage, Lyle. Number of punches for Jennings and Povetkin is a useless stat in this case. How many punches are you going to be able to throw in a round when you're being grappled by a giant octopus who's bent on avoiding a stiff breeze to the chin?

The point remains. Wlad is a very big, tall, powerful heavyweight with long reach and huge power in both hands. Ready made to KO opponents. Floyd is a graceful, extremely skilled, athletic, defensive master who puts on the same boxing show every time out. I don't expect KO's from Floyd, but I certainly expect them from Wlad. To see the circus act of both Wlad and his opponent scared shitless of each other (see: Wlad-Sultan) and pawing through 12 nauseating rounds is torture.

You're right. We watch who we want to watch. That's why I'm dying to have Wilder step up and challenge Wlad. He may or may not be ready at this point, but I want him to get to Wlad before Wlad says..... "Oh gee... look at the time. Time for me to retire." And conveniently avoids Wilder. We'll see how much clinching Wlad will get away with then.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

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Originally Posted by Beanflicker

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Wlad clenched 96 times vs. Jennings

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Holy fuck are you serious? Wow... that's sad!

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Yeah a friend compiled that and I didn't believe it so I viewed it again and did the calculations myself. Mine were a little different but I'm not going to split hairs over a point of a second or 94 times not 96.

Anyway you cut it, its pathetic. And I dont really care if people take it personally. Its not relevant.

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96 holds and 1 point deduction... some ref has to sack up and put a stop to this!

And people say Floyd held Manny... I doubt he did 10 clinches in the entire fight.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

"Came to win" as in not being scared to engage, Lyle. Number of punches for Jennings and Povetkin is a useless stat in this case. How many punches are you going to be able to throw in a round when you're being grappled by a giant octopus who's bent on avoiding a stiff breeze to the chin?

The point remains. Wlad is a very big, tall, powerful heavyweight with long reach and huge power in both hands. Ready made to KO opponents. Floyd is a graceful, extremely skilled, athletic, defensive master who puts on the same boxing show every time out. I don't expect KO's from Floyd, but I certainly expect them from Wlad. To see the circus act of both Wlad and his opponent scared shitless of each other (see: Wlad-Sultan) and pawing through 12 nauseating rounds is torture.

You're right. We watch who we want to watch. That's why I'm dying to have Wilder step up and challenge Wlad. He may or may not be ready at this point, but I want him to get to Wlad before Wlad says..... "Oh gee... look at the time. Time for me to retire." And conveniently avoids Wilder. We'll see how much clinching Wlad will get away with then.

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Gee I hope Eric Molina doesn't spoil a Wilder-Wlad fight :rolleyes:


Here's hoping Wilder gets in the ring with Wlad, I look forward to reading more and more and more excuses and complaints about the fight once Wilder is KO'd



As for the retirement comment....Wlad is this close to Joe Louis' record and he'll just retire all willy nilly like that?? Good job of showing that you're certainly not a "hater".....just a wishful hater

Floyd has bad hands and can still pot shot his way to victory.

Imagine if his hands were still the same in the earlier part of his career.

Floyd does not have power and will knock out anyone ever. His boxing skills are sublime, his performance against Shane was flawless after round 2.

Wlad has power and can stop his opponents if he wants but is overly cautious.

I prefer to watch Wlad because he can be more exciting.

Wlad has a much higher KO percentage and I would rather watch his fights. I won't watch anymore of Floyds fights at this point. I admire his work ethic and defensive ability, I don't think he is as bad as he seems out of the ring (trying to sell tickets), but the guy just doesn't excite me at all in the ring. I haven't been impressed or excited by his in ring performance since the Hatton fight. Against Maidana and Pac he clearly won but he did so by making sure both he and his opponent were outside of punching range for the majority of the fight. No more Floyd PPVs for me.

Floyd's usually fight guys who outweigh him too, he's really not a natural WW (neither is Pac though). Brittle hands + mediocre power + much larger opponents = not many KOs.

96 clinches I believe it. Point is: the refs are sissies. After 10 warnings, a point should be taken. No more warnings. Another point should be taken. Another point should be taken. Another point should be taken. Another and another and another and guess fucking what?!?!?!?!

that 118-111 score now becomes 111-109 VICTORY FOR JENNINGS.

THAT'S HOW TO REF AND SCORE A FIGHT.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I didn't like the holding against Povetkin and several other opponents of the past few years, but still I prefer to watch Klitschko.

Klitschko tries to KO all his opponents. He went for the KO in the later rounds against Jennings. He stops about 80% of his opponents, many of whom are undefeated, and he has the most KO wins in title fights of any HW champion in history.

Mayweather didn't even try to stop over-matched smaller men like Guerrero, Marquez nor even an injured and faded Pacquiao.

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Wrong. Did he try to KO Haye? Did he try to KO Sultan? Did he try to KO Povetkin? Haye talked insurmountable amounts of shit ahead of their fight. That alone should've been enough motivation for Wlad to shut that loud mouth convincingly. Sultan was meekly lying in wait to see if he could catch Wlad with a big counter left hand. Wlad on the other hand was aware of the left hand, and happily pawed his way to an excruciatingly nasty 12-round decision. Povetkin was there to fight.... but Wlad had other plans.

The difference is this: Wlad has the power, reach, and build to KO opponents. But he's afraid of getting his chin looked at sternly. Floyd has never been a puncher. He's a master boxer, like him or not. That's his style. Yes.... he probably should've taken out Pacquiao, to put that exclamation mark in there. But he won the way he always does. It was on Pacquiao to make the fight entertaining, the way Maidana and Cotto had done before him. But he didn't.... he failed.

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Excellent points.

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Originally Posted by IamInuit

Wlad clenched 96 times vs. Jennings
That's avg 8 clinches per round.

Clinch avg 10 seconds..
That's 80 seconds per round just clinching
That's 1.3 min per round clinching..
41% of each round was clinching.

Some clinches were longer than 10 seconds


Wlad fights nothing like Floyd

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:appl:

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Originally Posted by Master

Floyd does not have power and will knock out anyone ever. His boxing skills are sublime, his performance against Shane was flawless after round 2.

Wlad has power and can stop his opponents if he wants but is overly cautious.

I prefer to watch Wlad because he can be more exciting.

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hahahahahaha

Somebody get this scab some new bifocles.

I am no fan of Wald but he has had some fucking great kos and has been the champ for fucking 10 years and for his holding well if Ali the greatest did it win i am ok with it. Some of Alis fights he would fucking head lock his opponent the whole time and could even more boring then Wald is.

You can compare both Wlad and Floyd at this point in their careers to Bernard Hopkins. They just fight to win if the KO is there it's usually taken but if you had to win just 1 round those dudes would get the job done however possible.

You've got to be cagey to last that long at the top. It won't always be pretty but in the end only the results matter.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

You can compare both Wlad and Floyd at this point in their careers to Bernard Hopkins. They just fight to win if the KO is there it's usually taken but if you had to win just 1 round those dudes would get the job done however possible.

You've got to be cagey to last that long at the top. It won't always be pretty but in the end only the results matter.

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cagey I will admit. He has found a formula for winning, like Floyd has. I give credit where it is due. And he has one helluva right hand punch and left hook too in recent years.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

You can compare both Wlad and Floyd at this point in their careers to Bernard Hopkins. They just fight to win if the KO is there it's usually taken but if you had to win just 1 round those dudes would get the job done however possible.

You've got to be cagey to last that long at the top. It won't always be pretty but in the end only the results matter.

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cagey I will admit. He has found a formula for winning, like Floyd has. I give credit where it is due. And he has one helluva right hand punch and left hook too in recent years.

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The left hook has ALWAYS been there, it's partly why his jab is so effective because once that high guard is up Wlad can hook off the jab really well. I saw him smack Ray Mercer with 3 lighting fast (for a heavyweight) lead left hooks which put old Ray down for the first time ever (with a shot to the head as Holyfield had him take a knee on a dig to the body). I always wanted him to develop an uppercut, but he rarely uses it.

And like most boxing fans, yeah I'd love to see Wlad just go out guns a blazing, but you let the chef make his dish the way he wants. The guy's goal is to win and that's what he does and it's typically by KO....sure you lot don't like the clinching and leaning but when you have a timing mix up and the big guys come together it behooves Wlad to tie up not due to his chin, but due to his rhythm offensively. Wlad is not a fast break kind of fighter, he runs kind of a Princeton offense to use basketball terms, he's a half court player....sets up an offense with timing and distance and once there's an opening BOOM, he strikes. Some people accept what he does others don't, it is what it is, you can't please everyone.


Look at Deontay Wilder, people give him hell for fighting bums and while it's true his resume lacks names, I don't know what's wrong with knocking guys out all the time. If you can do it great, but some people actually want to see how good Wilder can BOX, his understanding of The Sweet Science. Floyd's entire career gave us glimpses of here's him knocking out someone really good, and here's him dominating someone really good, and here's him winning a fight vs a tough style, Wlad has done the same thing as well. But the point is everyone has their detractors.

Wladimir has amazing offensive potential, nobody can deny that!

The problem lies in the fact that he doesn't use them as often as people would like.

He has legit one-punch KO power in both hands, I wish he'd press for the finish more.

Jab... JAB LEFT HOOK RIGHT HAND LEFT HOOK.

Lights out!

But it's usually more Jab... Jab... CLINCH.... Jab... CLINCH... CLINCH