Who do you think could have beaten Floyd at 130?
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Who do you think could have beaten Floyd at 130?
I wouldn't pick anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
I know someone is going to say either Willie Pep or Alexis Arguello but I can't see that happening at all.
Arguello is one of my alltime favorite fighters.... but he didn't have the style to beat Floyd.
Floyd wins a decisive decision against Arguello.
Arguello would have a good shot with what he brings and he would have obliterated anyone Floyd fought at 130. He's got a fair shot. So does the real Kid Chocolate, Saddler, Elorde, Nelson, Mitchell and Villaflor. Even a guy like Casamayor would have provided style problems.
Julio Ceasar Chavez would have been a stern test, in my opinion. Castillo gave Floyd fits the first time they fought, and he was a poor mans Chavez (actually Chavez's sparring partner which got him to the elite level. I go back and forth on how this fight unfolds, but that Chavez was relentless and threw some gorgeous combinations. Floyd was an ATG 130 pounder also, so I can see a solid case for him winning that one as well.
JCC was relentless and hit like a ton of bricks at that weight, but I think Floyd was just way too slick to touch at that weight. That was back when he had the legs as well. Too fast and skilled, wide UD for Floyd in that one IMO.
Armstrong, Sanchez ;) I would have liked to see him face Casamayor :-\
It's a damn shame Mayweather-Casamayor didn't happen at 130Quote:
Originally Posted by La Cucaracha
Chavez beats him. Once he gets his distance it is over quick, 5-9 rounds total.
Floyd beats Arguello at 130.... and embarrasses Chavez.
Hector Camacho boxing skills and southpaw could be a problem.
Freitas was a quitter... if we are gonna try a Brazilian maybe we should put Eder Jofre in there instead hahaha
Freitas was a quitter, but he had a hell of a punch and his power didn't wane in fights either, he just bombed out Jorge Barrios in the final round of their fight and he was well down on the cards too.
I think Arguello stands a good chance. The people who think he doesn't are probably figuring it would be like Mayweather vs Corrales II, and that's fine, but AA was 5'10, he had a very good chin, and of course game changing power.
Salvador Sanchez would be another, because of his chin, his workrate, his heart, his power.
Willie Pep is just too darn small and had 0 to keep Floyd off of him.....it would be the worst fight ever with nobody throwing many punches, but if that's the case then who's to say Pep can't steal a round or two.
I agree on Sanchez, I think Nelson may have had some success as well. Arguello would have been more competitive than Corrales. Although the victory over Corrales looks good on paper, the guy had nothing left going into the fight. He had been struggling to make 130 for awhile. In the build up to the fight it was all about Corrales' struggle to make 130.
Of course he never. You forgot to mention that Diego also had an impending jail sentence on his mind too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
Floyd Mayweather has never fought a fair, hard fight in his life.
Yes, now you are seeing the light. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerOf course he never. You forgot to mention that Diego also had an impending jail sentence on his mind too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
Floyd Mayweather has never fought a fair, hard fight in his life.
I didn't forget to mention the jail sentence, I figured everyone on this forum would already know, I just think Corrales made a dumb mistake by saying he'd fight Floyd at 135 or 130. Stupid mistake like Dawson did with Ward. Corrales was already gone from 130, given up his belt after the Manfredy fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerOf course he never. You forgot to mention that Diego also had an impending jail sentence on his mind too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
Floyd Mayweather has never fought a fair, hard fight in his life.
It wasn't Corrales' mistake, it was Floyd's demand because like I said he's never had a real fight in his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
Little known fact about Floyd is that since 1999, he's worked a clause into his contract that every opponent MUST take a mild sedative before the fight. Diego was the first opponent he worked that into because he was scared of Diego's power.
If it was the real Diego who wasn't drugged, didn't beat his wife and get sentenced to jail, and wasn't forced to fight at 130... Floyd wouldn't have made it out of round 3.
So it was Floyd's demand for Chico to relinquish his belt too?
Whatever, cutting weight is a bitch. Try it sometime.
Wrestled in high school, I've cut weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
When have you cut weight?
I just find it funny, I've heard every excuse imaginable for every Floyd victory over the past 10 years or so, but I never heard one for Corrales until now :D
These haters are relentless.
If having a different opinion causes you to label me a hater then that's fine, although a little immature.
I feel Mayweather would have beaten Corrales at any stage of his career, even without the weight issues as well as everything else going into that fight. But the facts are that Corrales had relinquished his belt to move up to lightweight. He stated in his post fight interview that he'd fight Floyd at 135 or 130, which was a mistake. You need to be at your best to compete against Floyd and Corrales trying to cram down to 130 didn't do himself any favors. He should have waited at lightweight for Floyd to move up. Money talks though.
I've had over a dozen amateur bouts, have often only gotten an opponent on less than a weeks notice and had to boil down to their required weight. Cutting weight sucks.
http://i.imgur.com/AoTTdn7.gif?1Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
You're lumping everyone who's not a Floyd nuthugger together, @Beanflicker .
You're better than that.
I think it's pretty obvious separating the Pactards who will never give Floyd his just due, from those intelligent, knowledgeable posters who have valid opinions that do not include hanging from Floyd's nuts. C'mon dude.... Not everyone is either a nuthugger or hater.
:)
I pick apart some of Floyd's wins because I think context is important when discussing quality of opposition...etc. That being said, I just can't find a way to fault or discredit Floyd's fights vs Chico and/or Hatton. Both of those fights were ATG performances by Floyd.
Floyd has had difficulty with aggressive maulers who were able to close the distance quickly and force an inside fight (Castillo, Jesus Chavez, Famoso, Hatton and Maidana). The other style that proved difficult was the much larger Oscar, thanks to his effective jab. Floyd was an ATG at 130, so guys like Azumah, Frietas, Casameyor...etc., would've given him some issues, but none, imo, has the style, athleticism and complete toolset necessary to beat Floyd.
Chavez is the one guy who, at that weight, was complete enough and heavy handed enough to pull out the win. I see that fight as 50/50, with JCC's work rate and body attack getting the close decision.
I'm not saying Floyd wasn't brilliant that night and deserves credit for the victory. Corrales lost 8 pounds the day of the weigh-in and still step on the scale at 132. He spent another 90 minutes in the steam room to get the extra pounds off. Clearly he was not at his best.
Bro if someone has an excuse for all of Floyd's big wins, to me that's a hater.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
When you're trying to diminish a win because Floyd fought a guy at the same weight he had fought over 30 times previous... that's just being a hater.
The same shit happens to Diego at any weight. He was a very good fighter but he ran into a legit ATG. Lots of guys cut big weight, it's not uncommon for guys to sweat out way more than 8lbs to weigh in. Maidana was 147 for the weigh in and was up to 165 the next day for fight night. That's pure water weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
Cutting 10 pounds in a day will affect anyone, lets remember that Mayweather didn't want to lose the 2 for Marquez.
Bro almost EVERYONE cuts that much weight besides Floyd and Pacquaio. It's a part of fight sports: you get in the sauna, you tough it out and you make weight. Almost everyone does it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
Sadam Ali VS Francisco Santana - Contested at Welterweight
Ali: Official: 146.75 - Unofficial: 153
Santana: Official: 146.5 - Unofficial: 167
Sergey Kovalev VS Jean Pascal - Contested at Light Heavyweight
Kovalev: Official: 174.25 - Unofficial: 189
Pascal: Official: 175 - Unofficial: 185
Amir Imam VS Fidel Maldonado Junior - Contested at Light Welterweight
Imam: Official: 140 - Unofficial: 152
Maldonado: Official: 139 - Unofficial: 153
Brandon Rios VS Mike Alvarado - Contested at Welterweight
Rios: 163
Alvarado: 161
Gilberto Ramirez VS Maxim Vlasov - Contested at Light Heavyweight, with a catch-weight limit of 171
Ramirez: 170.5 - 182
Vlasov: 170 - 179
Jermall Charlo VS Lenny Bottai - Contested at Light Middleweight
Charlo: 170
Bottai: 160
Erislandy Lara VS Ishe Smith - Contested at Light Middleweight
Lara: 170.5
Smith: ?
Terence Crawford VS Yuriorkis Gamboa - Contested at Lightweight
Crawford: 152
Gamboa: 145
Orlando Salido VS Vasyl Lomachenko - This was scheduled for Featherweight
Salido: 147
Lomachenko: 136
Need I go on? Salido cut almost 20lbs in a day, missed weight and went on to beat Lomanchenko (with the help of a lot of low blows but whatever). That's boxing, people cut weight, they rehydrate, and they fight.
So Corales did not look weight drained and knocked down loads of times because Floyd was a monster puncher?
@Beanflicker has finally gone mad!
Well you have to remember Floyd started his career as a boxer-puncher with power in both hands at 130. By the time he moved up to 135 he was like 27-0 with 20 KO's. He was a dangerous guy at those lower weights.
Floyd looked fantastic that night, his hook was so fast. Like I've said previously; Floyd defeats Chico at any point. But to deny that Corrales was weight drained is delusional.
A fighter loses body fat through their camp, about a week out they just start drinking a heap of water, around two days out they cut that out and start to dry out for the weigh-in. After the weigh-in they then rehydrate and eat a few small meals. Because the body is starved it absorbs all the nutrients. Rehydrating to a much higher weight is common.
Corrales was over 6' and thinly built. He was already dried out before the Friday. Then to cut 8 pounds step on the scale and still be 132. Boil that off in the sauna to hit the mark. Of course once he starts eating and drinking again he is going to put on weight, it's common sense. There was even talk of him eating a sub in the dressing room.
I'd like to see a link that say Salido lost 20 pounds on the day of the weight-in.
Corrales still would have lost to Floyd at 135 or even 140 but it would have been a more competitive contest.
And again if it is so easy to lose the weight why didn't Mayweather lose his 2 pounds for Marquez?
Well what was the 20lbs he put back on? Fat and muscle? It's all water weight man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
I know what weigh cutting is, I know how it works. I just posted about 10 fights on the other page where guys put on more than 10lbs after the weigh in. My point is that EVERYONE cuts weight in the sport except Manny and Floyd.
He had a tough weight cut. Ok, cool. So do a lot of guys and they go out and fight and win. If Floyd had asked him to fight at a weight lower then he was accustomed to - like Pac did to DLH or Ward did to Dawson - then maybe I could buy the weight drained excuse. But 130 was a weight class that he had fought like 33 times previous to that. It was his weight class.
Diego doesn't win a round against Floyd no matter what weight they fought at. It was a total mismatch in terms of skill.
So no link hah? Like I said fighters come in dried out at the weight-in ready to make weight then rehydrate. They don't lose that 10 - 20 pounds on the day of the weigh-in, they are probably bang on about 3-4 days out, living on a piece of fruit and water a day until after the weigh-in.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerWell what was the 20lbs he put back on? Fat and muscle? It's all water weight man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lineal
I know what weigh cutting is, I know how it works. I just posted about 10 fights on the other page where guys put on more than 10lbs after the weigh in. My point is that EVERYONE cuts weight in the sport except Manny and Floyd.
He had a tough weight cut. Ok, cool. So do a lot of guys and they go out and fight and win. If Floyd had asked him to fight at a weight lower then he was accustomed to - like Pac did to DLH or Ward did to Dawson - then maybe I could buy the weight drained excuse. But 130 was a weight class that he had fought like 33 times previous to that. It was his weight class.
Diego doesn't win a round against Floyd no matter what weight they fought at. It was a total mismatch in terms of skill.
The Gomez fight was called off this weekend just passed because it was thought it would be too dangerous for him to lose the almost 8 pounds in such a short period of time. Show me links that state the guys you posted put on weight, had to lose that amount the day of the weigh-in.
It's well documented that Corrales had struggled to make weight in his previous defences prior to fighting Mayweather and it's a fact he struggled going into that fight.
I agree it's Corrales faults for accepting the fight at 130, but like he said"They made me an offer I couldn't refuse". He had a court case coming up and a lengthy expected prison sentence. That 1.4 mil was something he couldn't really pass up.
Corrales was always a relatively slow puncher but he seemed deathly lethargic that night. I think a healthy Corrales puts on a more competitive performance. He probably still gets dropped a few times because he had terrible footwork and seemed to get caught of balance a lot. But I think it's a very different fight.