He reminds me a little of the early days of Chavez, when Chavez used to punish opponents.
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He reminds me a little of the early days of Chavez, when Chavez used to punish opponents.
I have thought this for some time now. The methodical approach, the cutting off, even the head movement.
The early Chavez used to be a little bit more of a mover in some sort of way but Golovkin certainly does look a lot like a Chavez type.
Mexican style.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
I do not think GGG is as good or devastating as JCC was but he does punch harder and is more heavy handed.
JCC was more active and fought better opposition but most of the other fighters have avoided GGG.
Yeah, ok.... if I may qualify that, M....
JCC fought better opposition in the 2nd half of his career. He fought absolute nobodies in his first 45 fights. GGG is 33-0... so by comparison he'd still have another 12 nobodies to fight before he matches JCC in that regard. Yes... JCC was busier. Nobody fights 115 pro fights anymore. (Actually.... they start off with amateur fights).
Hey, practice what you preach in your last post, do not denigrate one great fighter to make a case for another good fighter. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterHey, practice what you preach in your last post, do not denigrate one great fighter to make a case for another good fighter. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Pointing out factual numbers is not denigrating. It is merely making a clarification that would've otherwise gone unnoticed. Take away his first 45 fights.... and a 62-win career is still pretty good.
;)
That's fair. But you could also look at it as by the same age he had fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Adriano Arreola
Mario Martinez
Ruben Castillo
Roger Mayweather
Rocky Lockridge
Fransisco Tomas De Cruz
Danilo Cabrera
Edwin Rosario
Nicky Perez
Rodolfo Aguilar
Rafael Limon
Jose Luis Ramirez
Roger Mayweather
Sammy Fuentes
Alberto Cortez
Meldrick Taylor
Kyung-Duk Ahn
John Duplessis
Lonnie Smith
Angel Hernandez
Frankie Mitchel
Hector Comacho
Greg Haugen
Terrence Alli
Pernell Whitacker
Andy Holligan
Frankie Randall
Frankie Randall
Meldrick Taylor
Tony Lopez
Giovani Parisi
David Kamau
To keep the list short I left off a fighter that was 37-0 so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThat's fair. But you could also look at it as by the same age he had fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Adriano Arreola
Mario Martinez
Ruben Castillo
Roger Mayweather
Rocky Lockridge
Fransisco Tomas De Cruz
Danilo Cabrera
Edwin Rosario
Nicky Perez
Rodolfo Aguilar
Rafael Limon
Jose Luis Ramirez
Roger Mayweather
Sammy Fuentes
Alberto Cortez
Meldrick Taylor
Kyung-Duk Ahn
John Duplessis
Lonnie Smith
Angel Hernandez
Frankie Mitchel
Hector Comacho
Greg Haugen
Terrence Alli
Pernell Whitacker
Andy Holligan
Frankie Randall
Frankie Randall
Meldrick Taylor
Tony Lopez
Giovani Parisi
David Kamau
To keep the list short I left off a fighter that was 37-0 so...
Age is not a bad measuring stick. However, I harp on records because we have these cases of fighters that skipped having an amateur career, choosing instead to fatten a professional record in their own hometown with woefully questionable opposition. Numbers are numbers and many people only base their opinions and assumptions based on those. Someone not familiar with boxing might look at JCC's 107 wins and say "Damn..... he must've been twice as good as any ATG with "only" 50 wins." When in actuality some of these fighters that "only" win 40 or 50 fights have fought terrific opposition since about their 10th fight. Just keeping a level playing field.
:)
Chavez fought many of those fights in Mexico. When you see him, in, say, his 30th fight in with a guy and it says he is 3-3... I wouldn't put much stock in that. Boxrec misses a lot of fights.
The guy that trained Chavez (which was not the guy you saw in the ring) ran real focused, specific sparring sessions. It wouldn't surprise me if he was picking opponents the same way.
That is how you build a guy to the point where you can put him in with anybody. And that is incredibly rare.
Exactly. He fought a lot of those fights in Mexico. In fact, he only ventured out of Mexico on his 38th fight when he came to San Juan. Whereas other champions past and present are already traveling outside their friendly neighborhood confines by their 10th pro fight. And to your point about BoxRec missing a lot of the opponents' fights. Still... it's hard to camouflage when in your 18th professional fight you're repeating an opponent you've already beaten... and this guy is 0-7 with four knockout losses on his record. Or when for your 50th professional fight you fight a guy who's 1-15 and eventually ends up with a 2-20 record with 15 KO losses. I'm not questioning his preparation, or the fact that he ended up being one of the greats. I'm just saying his record is disproportionately ballooned, as seems to be the case with JCC Jr. Must be a way of doing things. Meanwhile, you have a Lomachenko facing great competition right off the bat. Yes he had a long amateur career... but if in the end you're looking at W's and L's, it tends to distort reality.
Prior to Golovkin v Monroe jr I mentioned a Chavez torching John Duplessis scenario..but Monroe actually stood his ground for a bit ;D. I see Chavez-like but Golovkin not near to the complete inside churner and composed constant. Chavez positioned you with his feet as much as his shoulders..then the hooks came on. To be honest rewatching the Monroe fight.. as devastating as he was Golovkin looked bored at times. Gave up his head without getting a lot back for it at times.
I did notice that GGG fought this fight differently. Don't know how to describe it, like he was trying to encourage Monroe to throw more punches. Like you say looking bored, taking some unnecessary shots, waving Monroe in, doing everything he could to draw Monroe into the fight. Strange.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
He said in the post fight interview he was letting Monroe in both to test himself and put on "big drama show" a few guys here have a bit of rancor over ggg and keep saying the same neg stuff about him in different threads. That's fine, that's the sport, that's sportsfans but as a fight fan there is a lot to like about ggg. I never had the pleasure of watching Chavez Sr live but only his old fights on YouTube. I don't know, I just like the guy both in personality and ringsmanship.we seem to have a lot of very talented boxers who are a pleasure to watch in the ring and seem very genuine ggg, Kovalev, Crawford, wilder, and of course the always pleasant Broner.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedI did notice that GGG fought this fight differently. Don't know how to describe it, like he was trying to encourage Monroe to throw more punches. Like you say looking bored, taking some unnecessary shots, waving Monroe in, doing everything he could to draw Monroe into the fight. Strange.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
You have to look past the softies and look at the hard fights. I say this because I once looked through SRRs record carefully and was shocked how many times even well into his career he fought guys with 0 wins, or 1 win or less than 10 wins or more than 10 losses or below 500 records etcetera. The numbers of, frankly, weak fighters really adds up. But the numbers of great fighters adds up too. Chavez ledger is the same, there are many many softies but also many many great fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
And in the end all I care about is the good fighters fighting the good fighters.
So if Chavez was 87-0....before drawing with Sweet Pea who else could boast that kind of run? There was some controversy I guess in his home state in Mexico, just like JCC Jr, but 87-0, is a hell of a lot more than Marciano's record. Marciano didn't fight all top notch fighters himself. So why doesn't JCC hold the record? Is it just due to the fact he fought on?
Yeah that would be the record for retiring undefeated. No draws, no losses, no no-contests.
Larry Holmes came close. Floyd is one fight away from drawing with Larry.
Chavez Sr. is perhaps the greatest Mexican fighter to have ever laced up gloves.
GGG is a lot like Nigel Benn or Hagler.