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George Chuvalo shook and rocked Ali all night long with serious shots upstairs and down. Chuvalo had a mere 17 days to prepare for this fight due to Ernie Terrell pulling out of his fight with ali. If Chuvalo could hit ali all night with these thudding shots [example: Chuvalo landed 133 power shots to ali's body that night] then imagine what 1988 Iron Mike Tyson would have done: massive organ damage and head trauma, leading to about a 5th round frightening knockout.
Tyson would have fucked up Ali hardcore...Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
George Chuvalo was a hell of a fighter. This is a great documentary about it all!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O_9ANas7NQ
Clay was great in his era , but lots of fighters would have beaten him.
Yea.....noooo......Ali's footwork, his handspeed that's very troublesome for Tyson.
Could Tyson rock Ali? Could he knock Ali down? Quite possibly, but I'd say for the most part Tyson would have had trouble catching up with Ali because Ali would have been on his bike. Also mentally Tyson didn't have what it takes to handle Ali.
Look at Sonny Liston vs Ali, look at Patterson vs Ali....Mike Tyson was exactly like both of those dudes meshed together and both of those dudes got seriously fucked up by Ali.
Hmmm I think so too man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Yeah I agree.
Not So Fast
Mike Tyson was no 'left-hooker' like 185 lb. Henry Cooper.
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"Hey over here. I'm left-handed as well. I had a great left-hand too in 1966. It could do wonderful things."
Claudine Auger {1966}
Tale of the Tape {1966}
Country............ France
Occupation....... Actress and Looking Great
Age................. 25
Height ............ 5' 8"
Weight ........... 136 lbs.
Shape ............ 37" ~ 26" ~ 38"
Coconuts ........ 'D' {Large}
Hair ............... Dark Brown {Everywhere}
https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.ixWp...Q&pid=15.1&P=0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Name any fighter that would have even come close to beating Ali prior to his enforced 3 1/2 year lay off. There wasn't one
Remember we were robbed of seeing the prime Ali by politics. Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back but he adapted & still beat them all.
Did you hear what Sonny Liston said after Clay-Liston 1??? He said " They told me that boy couldn't punch... They LIED" !!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Name any fighter that would have even come close to beating Ali prior to his enforced 3 1/2 year lay off. There wasn't one
Remember we were robbed of seeing the prime Ali by politics. Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back but he adapted & still beat them all.
Did you hear what Sonny Liston said after Clay-Liston 1??? He said " They told me that boy couldn't punch... They LIED" !!!!!!!!!!!!
Well as the thread says id give the 88 Tyson a shot , Lennox , Wlad , Vitali , Sanders ,I just don't see Clay being strong enough in the clinches against those huge guys. He also lacked power .
He was the best of his era , that's all you can be , but I don't personally conform to he was the greatest , to small in this modern era .
I agree. Tyson would be almost as quick, but far more powerful. Proably a mid round Tyson stoppage win. An older, bigger, wiser Ali would have had a better chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
Well many bigger HW'S would have given Clay problems , remember Norton had a glass jaw and he ploughed forward throwing punches all night.
Yes the Clay who fought Liston was a super mover , however I don't buy he could beat any HW of any era , that just plain stupid.
Well guys, the conditions are very obscure.
Lets state scenarios:
1. Teleport Tyson from Spinks fight and place him againt Ali in Zora Foo..whatever fight, I mean before he was suspended from boxing.
I go for Tyson 12 D
2. Teleport Tyson from Spinks fight and place him againt Ali in Manila / Zaire fight, I mean after his comeback
I go for Ali winning 15 D or TKO
3. However, if they engage in trash talking before the fight, some build up over half a year, so Ali could study him, get into Tyson's head, then I think Ali would win, maybe even by KO, TKO
~ Mike Tyson '1988' vs. Cassius Clay '1966' ~
Computer Results .............. Mike Tyson by 15-Round Decision
Mike Tyson's effective aggression over the first 9-Rounds builds up a big points lead.
Cassius Clay absorbed a lot of punishment, and was 'stunned' several times throughout
the early going.
As Mike Tyson slowed his pace, Cassius Clay was able to take advantage of his longer
reach, and scored with long-range jabs over the last 'third' of the bout to make the fight
look closer on the Scorecards.
Mike Tyson continued to move forward throughout the entire bout.
Cassius Clay just did not have the fire-power to slow Mike Tyson down, as the shorter
'1988' Mike Tyson was always 'dipping-and-bobbing' while coming forward.
Ali's movement would have helped.
Imagine him fighting Marciano... Tyson would be far too strong, far too fast and Marciano plodding forward would absorb the full force of him. It would be like driving a beat up station wagon into an on coming freight train.
Depends on the ring size, when Ali fought Marciano in the exhibition fight/sparring, it was almost a phoneboothQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
SRL fought harlger in the largest ring possible just to give you the feel how it is important, couple feet off and SRL could have been KO'd
Also, watch Hopkins vs Glen Johnson, very small ring
* Mike Tyson 'Model 1988' ......... Age 22
* Cassius Clay 'Model 1966' ....... Age 24
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Mae Britt ............. "What do you think Sammy. Does that 'Clay' guy have a chance."
Sammy Davis Jr. ... "No way my Swedish Bride. That Tyson kid is made of Iron, and he 'bites' like me."
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Clay would definitely get KTFO by Tyson.
He'd feel Tyson's heat!
Tyson and Marciano could fight in a football pitch, Marciano marches right in either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by NVSeminDepends on the ring size, when Ali fought Marciano in the exhibition fight/sparring, it was almost a phoneboothQuote:
Originally Posted by AdamGB
SRL fought harlger in the largest ring possible just to give you the feel how it is important, couple feet off and SRL could have been KO'd
Also, watch Hopkins vs Glen Johnson, very small ring
i sure hope this is a joke I don't get or this thread is embarrassing
Well Joe Louis lost 3 years and it's hardly ever mentionedQuote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Name any fighter that would have even come close to beating Ali prior to his enforced 3 1/2 year lay off. There wasn't one
Remember we were robbed of seeing the prime Ali by politics. Ali wasn't the same fighter when he came back but he adapted & still beat them all.
Did you hear what Sonny Liston said after Clay-Liston 1??? He said " They told me that boy couldn't punch... They LIED" !!!!!!!!!!!!
Ali probably out-octopuses Wladimir Klitschko for most deserved disqualifications for grabbing and holding and pulling behind the head. Its a toss-up, really between the 2 bums. Is all they were, really.
ali took so many crushing skull-shots from Frazier, Norton, Shavers, etc. he should have been banned from boxing by the Norton/Ali third fight. Just totally unnecessary and DEBILITATING head shots. Over and over. And clowning around, like an asshole. Watch Ali/Norton III. Totally disgusting.
George Foreman: "Ali NEVER beat Ken Norton."
FACT.
Well as much as this another "Ali hate thread" and I don't like participating in those.... I can't in good conscience say the thread title is wrong. Having said that, I think '88 Tyson destroys a lot of other past boxing champions, including Marciano.
I think you're right!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
How'd Rocky get in this mix? Rocky was almost a light heavyweight so it's just erroneous to throw his name around with the bigger heavyweights and even Tyson had roughly 30 pounds on him. Rocky Marciano vs Bob Foster is a fair matchup, Rocky vs Michael Spinks, Rocky vs RJJ, etc. those are more valid.
Ali's footwork makes him hard for Tyson to track down and corner and even when Tyson does that Ali's very awkward and nontraditional head movement (leaning back instead of slipping side to side) makes it very difficult for Tyson to catch him. Tyson could go to the body but who went to the body successfully with Ali? Ali would fight to the death, Mike Tyson would fight hard, but there was quit in him I think there was more quit in Tyson than there ever was in Joe Frazier.
Ali would fuck Tyson mentally as well...."Is that all you got George", "What's my name?", "Don't you know I'm God"....these are things said during fights that threw off his opponents, I'm not sure Tyson could take that kind of needling.
I'm not saying Tyson is a bum, I'm saying he's just in for a HORRIBLE style matchup vs Ali...if Tucker and Smith last 12 then Ali makes 15 easy but wouldn't need to because he'd be winning rounds and Tyson would either foul out or get TKO'd.
Just because Chuvalo landed punches does not mean Tyson would be allowed too against Ali. I think Ali will play mind games with Tyson and if Ali gets past the initial onslaught he could win. Tyson live was about to explode after 1988.
I don't think that's a good statement at all. Tucker and Smith had a lot of weight on '66 Ali.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
But that aside... surviving against Tyson was a possibility. Tucker, Smith, Green, ect did it. But they were mostly in survival mode, giving away rounds to stay on their feet.
Surviving AND winning? Much harder. Tyson was an offensive whirlwind unlike anything Ali fought and Ali would end up taking some serious bombs.
Again, Ali is way too quick on his feet added in his reach and his defensive skills at that time plus his handspeed....I'm sorry Tyson may well beat a lot of champions, but Ali wouldn't have been one.
Tyson was fast as shit too though. We're not talking about another lumbering mummy like Liston or Foreman.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
My money is on the guy with the woman voice.
Floyd Patterson had the same style and he was extremely fast as well....how'd that work out?Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerTyson was fast as shit too though. We're not talking about another lumbering mummy like Liston or Foreman.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
My money is on the guy with the woman voice.
I think Holyfield would have given Ali Hell based on his style, Lennox, Vitali, Wlad based on size and athletic ability. Chris Byrd would have been difficult for Ali. Riddick Bowe may have been tough for him. Larry Holmes would always be tough for him. It's a style matchup that doesn't suit Tyson is all...Mike Tyson was great going forwards, well Ali was just as great going backwards, if you're a big puncher, if you're a pressure fighter you're going to be a Bull chasing a Matador the entire fight and Ali had the speed and skills to avoid Tyson's power. Ali's chin, his ability to recover, his ability to use his speed AS his power...that doesn't work well vs what Tyson did well.
Another Ali hate thread, another post where you complain about Ali fighting dirty...Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
I should really call you a hypocrite for idolising one of the dirtiest heavyweight champions ever yet having the gile to complain about fighters that clinch a lot deserving to be DQ'd but I can't be bothered to get tagged in dozens of mental threads by you again! ;)
Pshh now I know you ain't comparing Floyd Patterson and prime Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Kevin Rooney had the same style too. Mike made that shit work like no one else... come on man!
@AdamGB another post in which you point that out, another post in which you 'blame' the ~ref~ for `calling` too many <warnings> against 'Ali'.
Yeah and who basically ended Rooney's career? Arguello, a lanky fighter that could control distance. Ali didn't have the pop of Arguello, but he had length and speed as well as footwork.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerPshh now I know you ain't comparing Floyd Patterson and prime Tyson.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Kevin Rooney had the same style too. Mike made that shit work like no one else... come on man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD99VbFzqAg
Power punchers have to set their feet....Tyson wouldn't have been able to get those feet set vs Ali, I'm sorry man but Tyson was human even in 1988.
Interesting watch for you guys out there just to add to the discussion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8jxmiXonfQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF17mkqyf44
At 4:09 of the video "Iron" Mike Tyson gives his honest take on the hypothetical Ali vs Tyson matchup. Maybe Mike is just paying respects, but either way he has very good things to say about Ali and even gets a little choked up talking about how great Ali was in the ring.
So there you have it straight from the horse's mouth "I can't beat that man, hell fuckin no, no fuckin way"
Who said anything about refs or warninGs? Don't put words in my mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
It's not polite to put stuff in other men's mouths Brock... :-X
Ali had already said on the arseno hall show that he was sure Tyson would knock him out. or at least something to that effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
I think they're just respectful of each other in different ways.
You wouldn't beat Tyson, at his best, by moving and jabbing. Everything he did, the whole focus of the D'Amato style, is slipping the jab. If you are moving it let's him use his own fast and skillful feet. Then he cuts distance throws a shift into the mix and hits you with punches you don't see.
Two things to keep in mind. First, Ali moved almost exclusively to his left; if he did move right he didn't punch. That makes sense because he jabbed and followed his left foot. Second, Tyson didn't fight well inside but he did damage on the way in. That would also be the time Ali would be most vulnerable to getting nailed.