Well, can we? Mares and Angulo looked WORSE under him, and Khan failed to impress last night.
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Well, can we? Mares and Angulo looked WORSE under him, and Khan failed to impress last night.
Yea I don't see any value in what he says in the corner. He thinks himself knowledgeable but I don't see it. Khan was better with Roach.
Bollocks.
Khan is undefeated under virgil.
Okay they obviously had different opponents but roach has no versatility.
It felt like Hunter was on his arse during the rounds, reminding him to do the basic things that make him effective. Khan needed that.
Khan didn't look as good last night as we have seen him recently but he still won the fight convincingly I had it 9-4 wasn't a close fight at all. I believe Kahn is a much better fighter under hunter.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
No I don't think he's shit. He does his part and it's not his fault that Khan is a moron and has no boxing IQ.
The trainer can only do so much, he can tell you and show you but it is up to the fighter to then have the mental strength to be able to do it.
To add to that, I think Khan has looked better under Hunter than he did under 'HOF' trainer Roach.
No, it's more to do with the style of opponent. Khan isn't great under pressure. It was only 6 months ago that he was looking exceptional against Alexander.
Hunter and Khan are suited, they complement one another. Khan needed the composure and sensible advice. Khan can be his natural aggressive self at the right times.
I'm always blown away fans think fighters this far along get far better or far worse by tutelage. By now they are who they are. There can be minor adjustments that can bring major returns, but a smart Khan is hanging out with Santa Clause, A bearded God in the clouds and Focused Zab Judah,,,, they're all in people's imagination.
But he has fast hands so like with Zab and Tyson people will believe over and over again SMH
I question all trainers. A huge part of it comes down to luck. Hunter was lucky he got a talent as good as Ward to boost his reputation. I honestly dont think trainers make a huge difference.
Like I said, Khan has ALWAYS been mostly speed. Without it, he has a low ring IQ, poor defense, no inside game, and a glass jaw.
Oh I see. So you want Hunter to suck to justify your pre determined opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
No, I'm saying it doesn't look like Hunter has improved Khan after Friday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusOh I see. So you want Hunter to suck to justify your pre determined opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Khan is still vulnerable to the left hook, is vulnerable to overhand rights, looks uncomfortable on the back foot, still has no inside game, and still has poor defense.
And don't tell me, "Oh, Khan is still getting used to Hunter", because he's been with Khan for 4 fights now, Diaz, Collazo, Alexander, and Algieri. That's enough time to get used to a trainer.
You say "still" so you know these were problems with Khan before Hunter. Yet you blame Hunter. And you see nothing strange about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_AddictNo, I'm saying it doesn't look like Hunter has improved Khan after Friday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusOh I see. So you want Hunter to suck to justify your pre determined opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Khan is still vulnerable to the left hook, is vulnerable to overhand rights, looks uncomfortable on the back foot, still has no inside game, and still has poor defense.
And don't tell me, "Oh, Khan is still getting used to Hunter", because he's been with Khan for 4 fights now, Diaz, Collazo, Alexander, and Algieri. That's enough time to get used to a trainer.
Well, it's the trainer's job to fix a fighter's flaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonYou say "still" so you know these were problems with Khan before Hunter. Yet you blame Hunter. And you see nothing strange about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_AddictNo, I'm saying it doesn't look like Hunter has improved Khan after Friday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusOh I see. So you want Hunter to suck to justify your pre determined opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Khan is still vulnerable to the left hook, is vulnerable to overhand rights, looks uncomfortable on the back foot, still has no inside game, and still has poor defense.
And don't tell me, "Oh, Khan is still getting used to Hunter", because he's been with Khan for 4 fights now, Diaz, Collazo, Alexander, and Algieri. That's enough time to get used to a trainer.
And it's not just Khan. Mares looked worse under Hunter.
So you want Hunter to fix all those flaws? Perhaps he should just grab the first big bloke he sees on the streets and turn him into Lennox Lewis as well? Because it's so easy to fix anyone right?Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_AddictWell, it's the trainer's job to fix a fighter's flaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonYou say "still" so you know these were problems with Khan before Hunter. Yet you blame Hunter. And you see nothing strange about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_AddictNo, I'm saying it doesn't look like Hunter has improved Khan after Friday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel BoogustusOh I see. So you want Hunter to suck to justify your pre determined opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Khan is still vulnerable to the left hook, is vulnerable to overhand rights, looks uncomfortable on the back foot, still has no inside game, and still has poor defense.
And don't tell me, "Oh, Khan is still getting used to Hunter", because he's been with Khan for 4 fights now, Diaz, Collazo, Alexander, and Algieri. That's enough time to get used to a trainer.
And it's not just Khan. Mares looked worse under Hunter.
How do you fix a guy that doesn't believe he needs fixing?
Hunter is a decent trainer.
As the saying goes; styles make fights, maybe this exists with trainers?
I think every(great) trainer has worked with fighters they just couldn't improve_under any circumstances.
A few examples:
Enzo Calzaghe great with Joe Calzaghe-sucked with Enzo Macrinelli.
Freddie Roach got Toney who was already a great fighter-fortunate to have gotten Pac (and Hunter wouldn't look great as Pacquiao's trainer?)
Roach had a fighter named Justin Juuko- Roach did no better with him than Steward with Jermaine Taylor , or in this case Hunter with Khan.
My complaint about the Hunters is more about their fight plans. Barry Hunter had Peterson giving away half the fight to Garcia, and Virgil Hunter was surprised Algieri came out aggressively against Khan.
Trainers are supposed to be the brains, the guys with foresight who are on top of things. I'm not seeing that form the Hunters, lately.
If I'm wrong, tell me.
That's a hell of a lot more reasonable than those that expect Hunter to turn a very flawed fighter into a perfect fighter.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
Khan said he was flat in the fight because he was over trained, needs to get back his natural instinct and that Hunter is trying to turn him into Andre Ward which doesn't suit him. (That last part is blatantly obvious)
Wonder how much longer they'll be together? Goodnight vienna.
I thought he looked slower than normal. Against Alexander he was lightening quick but looked sluggish by comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Yeah he did look slower but I credited that to Algieri, who looks pretty swift himself. Maybe Khan did have an off night though due to leaving it in the gym
Maybe Khan did have an off night, but he's always looking for an excuse. Now apparently he's moaning because Hunter is trying to turn him into Andre Ward.
If I was Hunter, I'd kick him out of the gym right now and tell him to find himself another trainer. He's had more fucking trainers than he's had fights!
You can't make a silk purse out of a pigs ear
Meh...remember Algieri lasted the distance with Pacquiao as well. It takes more than 1-2 fights for a trainer to really make an impact.
Damn, I hate that excuse! 'I trained too hard or too long and that's why I lost the fight.' That even makes Hunter look worse, and it doesn't do much for Khan's rep either. After 34 pro fights (and how many amateur?) Khan doesn't know when he's over doing it in the gym? Maybe the bottle tricks pushed him over the edge, or maybe he spent too much time battering defenseless bottles instead of training. I know fighters can and do over train, but why do we hear 'Best Camp Ever' before the fight and 'I Over Trained' after a poor performance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
JDJ and Algieri made Hunter and Khan look bad, is what happened, with a better fight plan. Might have pulled it off if Hunter had lost his head. JDJ gets some points, Hunter drops some no way to get around it, in my opinion.
I agree. Chad Dawson went through trainer after trainer making the same excuse. I (think)??? John David Jackson got thrown under the bus when Allen Green lost to Andre Ward.Quote:
Originally Posted by beenKOedDamn, I hate that excuse! 'I trained too hard or too long and that's why I lost the fight.' That even makes Hunter look worse, and it doesn't do much for Khan's rep either. After 34 pro fights (and how many amateur?) Khan doesn't know when he's over doing it in the gym? Maybe the bottle tricks pushed him over the edge, or maybe he spent too much time battering defenseless bottles instead of training. I know fighters can and do over train, but why do we hear 'Best Camp Ever' before the fight and 'I Over Trained' after a poor performance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
JDJ and Algieri made Hunter and Khan look bad, is what happened, with a better fight plan. Might have pulled it off if Hunter had lost his head. JDJ gets some points, Hunter drops some no way to get around it, in my opinion.
Claimed he was over trained.
And was fighting in the wrong weight class.
Chad Dawson was/is mental isn't he. He switched trainers like underwear...he NEVER learned his spacing, he'd smother himself vs anyone. He wanted to fight inside AND from distance with incompatible defense and attacks. You can't get and keep distance in attack AND have to use the Philly Shell/Shoulder roll. You either get in the pocket and need to utilize that defense in which case you need to tighten up your attack OR you're fighting from the outside and don't need that specific defense. I can understand wanting to change it up and confuse your opponent going inside and outside, but ffs he just tried doing waaaaay too much waaaay too often. He should have learned to fight within himself instead of being the Jack of All Trades but Master of none.
Yeah. Personally, I think he has so much talent AND....skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Not sure what happened to him. My best guess is what you've stated.
Well said.
Indeed, he had tremendous talent but kind of like Meldrick Taylor he just wanted so badly to fight in a style that didn't give him the best shot at fully realizing his potentialQuote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeYeah. Personally, I think he has so much talent AND....skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Not sure what happened to him. My best guess is what you've stated.
Well said.
Not sure if i would call him a GREAT trainer...but using Khan's performance to judge his training ability is a bit silly. Khan is just not a very smart fighter. You can't expect him to become a smart fighter at this stage of his career. Regardless of his speed or what seems like a style overhaul...he will at some point in a fight revert to who he is.
Sometimes old(er) dogs can learn new tricks, look at Gatti and McGirt. I think Khan has had a better career than Gatti thus far...he's certainly not as exciting a fighter, but he's not lost to guys he shouldn't have lost to (bar Prescott).Quote:
Originally Posted by zhubin