Thoughts, ideas, feelings?
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Thoughts, ideas, feelings?
I'm surprised nobody had mentioned it before... since the news is already a couple of days old. Sergio was a class act in boxing. A true gentleman, which is always a welcome respite from the Brandons and the Margaritos of the sport. He represented his country with honor, which is what a boxer should do. I'm sure Argentinians will always have a warm spot in their hearts for the man. It's also good he got out before suffering the kind of brain damage that some fighters suffer in the ring.
My best wishes to Sergio and his future.
He's a class act, Argentina should be very proud of him. It took him longer than most to really get his chance to shine, but once he got it he took full advantage of the opportunity. He had some classic boxing displays and was the author of one of the best 1 punch knockouts in the history of the sport.
Was it his knees that gave way?
I remember him getting floored by Richard Williams , then getting up to win.
I don't think anyone thought he would go on to have such a great career.
Enjoy your retirement champ!
Was never a real fan, but I respect the man. I was bitter about him knocking Paul Williams out right when he was on his way to being on top. He has some good wins but I don't think he was as good as everyone was saying before the Cotto fight. Took too long to step up his competition level. Really inflated record if you ask me. Don't know when he lost his legs but he looked like Antwaun Echols against Cotto...legs were just two stiff and he's know for his movement, so its good he realized its a wrap for his career.
All the best to him. A great boxer, it's just a shame his success took so long. Wish he would have retired before the Cotto fight, he was all used up.
It was beyond time for retirement, was a favorite of mine and I didn't watch the Cotto fight all the way thru , got to sad for my liking.
Didn't he already retire after Cotto? What was the holdup on his announcement?
The first time I watched him I wanted him to be ko'd..and he was. Then he dug in and plowed back and to me was always the very non typical battler-boxer from Argentina.The flash and top trap setter with top handspeed. Cocky as all fook but it worked! Definitely a class operator and stayed humble in the end. Probably one of the very few that will have to ko an opponent and decision him once just to settle on a terrible draw ;D Martinez is the definition of grinding out potential with a second life and shot. Good dude all around.
He always behaved the way a champion should inside and outside the ring. A great person didn't have a long run at the top but it was fun while a lasted he deserves to enjoy his retirement.
People forget that had it not been for Pavlik's staph infection, Martinez wouldn't have had the opportunity to fight Paul Williams as a last minute replacement at that time. Who knows how long his time in obscurity would have lasted. Glad it worked out for him.
sergio martinez is a good guy and has had a good career
most over rated fighter of recent times tho
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I don't see why ?
he was rated lb4lb number 2 or 3 after winning 2 out of 4 fights, then went on to beat a number of fringe contendorsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I don't see why ?
dont get me wrong hes a great fighter and has looked good in the latter years
but hes was never in the top 2 or 3 fighters in the world
I think if he started boxing maybe 5 years earlier, not at 20?, he could have developed into a phenomenal fighter. He had charisma and skills to be a great champion.
Good decision. He is old and his legs are gone. Martinez has had a very good career and that final fight means very little.
I did not remember Williams knocking Sergio down but could see he was a class act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
A class act, and the genuine best middleweight in the world for a while. Interesting awkward style, big punch and fun to watch.
Success came late for him, so he knew what it was like to struggle and always appreciated it
He was HUGE in Argentina, voted Argentinian sports personality of the year many times (and Leo Messi is Argentinian)
Thanks for the memories and have a happy retirement champ
Couldn't sum it up any better. Classy guy, and his willingness to make a stand against domestic violence was an important cherry on top. Well done champ, you climbed that mountain, and nobody can take that away, however shot your knees get.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
He took the first fight with The Secret on a weeks notice and had a full time job at the time. They then brought him back over to bash Williams up again.
Like Winky he made his name duffing up Brits before going to the States.
I call it the(HBO) factor. They always hype their fighters on the mythical title P4P, whereas Showtime usually ranks fights by their weight class.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44he was rated lb4lb number 2 or 3 after winning 2 out of 4 fights, then went on to beat a number of fringe contendorsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I don't see why ?
dont get me wrong hes a great fighter and has looked good in the latter years
but hes was never in the top 2 or 3 fighters in the world
Not sure why he couldn't out work margarito, not like he got busted up.
Good win against Pavlik, he busted Kelly up pretty good.
I will wait two years before saying he has retired. Lennox and Calzaghe are the exception to the rule.
Last note: yeah he is a humble guy, but he don't really need to be a class act for me to give him props. I love looking back on a fighter's career when they've done wild shit like Riddick Bowe punching Larry Donald at the podium. Morales and Barerra slugging at the podium, Ali and Frazier wrestling in front of Cossell, Larry Holmes jumping off someone's car like superman....and kicking Trevor Berbick.
None of those guys beat their women, kept getting arrested...They werent criminals which is what I ask of a fighter. Be a class act in the ring...but it's okay to be an extrovert. It's ok to be a badass if it's you and not an act.
Anyhow, good fighter, really flashy, didn't cherry pick, had nice power, but average resume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterI did not remember Williams knocking Sergio down but could see he was a class act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
First fight - 2.09 of the third round , right hand.
I Thank you!
I must have only watched the 2nd fight. As Fenster said he beat up another one of our British fighters after and then took over the world. So in a way we taught him everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord AlQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterI did not remember Williams knocking Sergio down but could see he was a class act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
First fight - 2.09 of the third round , right hand.
I Thank you!
Great article here from the Guardian
Celebrating Sergio Martínez, one of the great middleweight boxers of our time | Sport | The Guardian
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"As Martin Murray sat beside his compatriot Darren Barker in the Sky Sports studio, a smile grew across his face. A sturdy, thick-necked middleweight with a history of violent crime, Murray listened incredulously as Birmingham-born Matthew Macklin boasted proudly of his exploits, both domestically and abroad. Calling in from his gym on the south coast of Andalusia, Macklin reminded his domestic rivals that he had headlined on HBO, sold out Madison Square Garden and given the best boxers in the division a run for his money. “I showed I’m a fairly complete fighter,” he insisted. “I pushed him very close.”
“At the end of the day you got beat,” Murray replied coldly. “As soon as Martínez stepped it up you was out of your depth.”
As is usually the case in boxing, the reality was somewhere in between. Murray’s assertion may have contained an element of truth, but that is no real slight on his British rival. You could have copied and pasted the name of any top middleweight between 2010 and 2013 and the statement would have rung equally true.
Barker, like Macklin, had been knocked out by Sergio Martínez, the lineal middleweight champion who reigned with distinction from April 2010 to June 2014. At the time of filming Murray was yet to fight him, but a few weeks later he would join his countrymen in defeat, united as members of an utterly thankless club.
Murray travelled to Buenos Aires in April 2013 and did sufficiently well as to give Martínez a tough night’s work, dropping him in the eighth round and exposing the frailties that had taken root in his 38-year-old bones. Though he was victorious, and extended his run at the top of the sport into a fourth successive year, fighting men a decade younger appeared to have finally caught up with the Argentinian star; something that would be confirmed violently in June 2014, when the diminutive Miguel Cotto dropped him three times in the first round and took his belt barely 30 minutes later.
Eleven months on and with no return in sight, Martínez told the Argentinian newspaper La Nacion that his knee had been “shattered”: “I am a boxer, my knee is shattered. I am 40 years old, I’m getting wrinkles and my hair is falling out. I cannot play a game of soccer with my mates, like when I was a kid, let alone return to fight at the top level. I’ve already made up my mind, but in a few weeks I will have a final meeting with doctors and make my announcement then.”
If the end was inglorious, unbecoming of a champion who was near impossibly great in his prime, it was taken with all his customary grace. This was a man, after all, with a heightened sense of perspective, unthinkable amid the bravado and flash of the sport’s biggest names. Rejected by his own country, Martínez had been fed to the wolves in Las Vegas in only his 18th fight, before he was forced to relocate to Spain and accept fringe title bouts on barely a week’s notice. Unwilling to meekly accept his lot, however, he defied the powers that be by embarking on a nine-year undefeated steak following his first professional loss in 2000, clawing his way back into contention, both for world titles and prime American TV dates.
His redemption would be sealed in 2010 with a dominant win over great white hope Kelly Pavlik, dicing the skin above both his opponent’s eyes and claiming the lineal middleweight championship of the world. Such was the sensational nature of the performance that Pavlik chose to waive the rematch clause in the contract, remaining inactive for over a year before returning against a significantly lower level of opposition. He had been the next big thing in boxing at one time, yet would later retire, aged just 30, having never breathed another word about again wanting to face the man who took his crown.
But Martínez was just getting started, and followed up his schooling of Pavlik with the Knockout of the Year against the man widely considered the most avoided fighter in the sport. Paul Williams, known as The Punisher, averaged close to 100 punches thrown per round, and was considered tricky enough that neither Floyd Mayweather nor the aforementioned Cotto showed any inclination to share a ring with him. Given Williams’s relentless style and extraordinary conditioning, as well as the fact that their earlier meeting had gone to a disputed decision, Martínez was expected to have his work cut out. Yet he needed less than four minutes to put his opponent to sleep, landing an overhand left that reverberated around Boardwalk Hall like a gunshot, removing Williams from consciousness while still on his feet, before allowing his body to crumple cinematically to the canvas.
A string of sensational performances came after, during which time Martínez saw his stock rise to the point where he was widely considered, behind Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao, the best pound for pound fighter in the sport. Having laid waste to the British scene, he reclaimed the WBC middleweight belt that had been inexplicably stripped from him and placed around the waist of the president’s godson, Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr. He even made it to pay-per-view for two of his three final fights, fulfilling a gnawing personal ambition and cementing his status as a star, both in the boxing world and at home in his native Argentina.
Given his athletic style and advanced age, it was no great surprise that the end would prove to be sudden. A former footballer and passionate cyclist, he had developed a strength in his legs rarely seen in boxing, granting him the ability to dart in and out of range with his hands down, safe in the knowledge that his feet were sufficiently swift as to get him out of trouble. Once the legs went, he was left with little else. His extraordinarily late start in the sport, which he took up only at age 20, had denied him the fundamentals developed by others who begin as children or in their teens.
Last summer, following the conclusion of the 9th round against Cotto, as he hobbled back to his corner having been knocked down for the fourth time, Martínez’s body had given up. Pablo Sarmiento, his trainer, recognised this, and took the fighter’s head in his hands. “Your knees are not working, Sergio,” he cried. “It’s my responsibility.” Martínez frowned and asked for water, but Sarmiento, who had been with him since his days as a part-time dishwasher in La Mancha, was insistent. “You’ll always be my champion,” he bellowed repeatedly above the raucous crowd.
Though it felt to observers like the most wretched of ends, there was still time for Martínez’s class to shine through when, draped in the flag of his beloved Argentina, he looked to the crowd, to his people, and commended the man who had taken his place.
“If nothing else, I can only say congratulations. You’ve got to know how to win, and know how to lose.”
Though politics dictates that he may never make it to Canastota and the Hall of Fame, it was fitting that his final words from the summit of the sport were a statement to which its occupants would wholeheartedly subscribe. In a world as transparently self-serving as boxing, where nothing is on the record and every utterance must be taken with a pinch of salt, Martínez spoke not merely as a great champion, but as a great man."
http://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-i...rmat&sharp=10&
http://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-i...rmat&sharp=10&
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Sergio surely was a flashy fighter with pop to his Punch. Not sure I'd call him a great, even his era.
The writer uses quite a few adjectives to describe mediocrity. Extraordinary late start.
A string of sensational performances without naming these fights.
Murray, Barker, Pavlik and Williams. Not the best resume for 56 fights over 17 years.
Bunema is a decent journeyman that most fought to get to the top, same for Cintron-really flakey draw and weird stoppage, just to continue on.
Not sure if he is hall of fame worthy, but I wouldn't complain if he made it.
For his era he was certainly a great. He didn't start till 20 was never really babied or even appreciated by his countrymen until later, and was determined enough to live, train and fight abroad, learn fast from his mistakes and improve. He was both entertaining and vulnerable. He knew what it means to be put on your backside and yet did not build a style around retreating into his shell. I guess it's subjective but personally I think he was a great fighter like many of the lighter men and Japanese etc, it's easy to miss their relevance, but he had pedigree, and until his last few fights built a career with an upward trajectory as far as skill and mental know how was concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
There are a lot of mediocre fighters. I don't think Martinez was one of them.
I thought the cotto fight was his retirement. After the fight was there any doubt that his knees were shot
Solid case.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenbeanzFor his era he was certainly a great. He didn't start till 20 was never really babied or even appreciated by his countrymen until later, and was determined enough to live, train and fight abroad, learn fast from his mistakes and improve. He was both entertaining and vulnerable. He knew what it means to be put on your backside and yet did not build a style around retreating into his shell. I guess it's subjective but personally I think he was a great fighter like many of the lighter men and Japanese etc, it's easy to miss their relevance, but he had pedigree, and until his last few fights built a career with an upward trajectory as far as skill and mental know how was concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
There are a lot of mediocre fighters. I don't think Martinez was one of them.
Anyone else heard Martinez is returning, and against Chavez Jr.
I hope it's not true.
Didn’t hear that but I’m not interested whatsoever in it
Nah me either, Supposedly in Nov.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Damn Martinez was a shell last time out.
Ooh that is horrible. I love Martinez but his leg was done to bits and he couldn't lean on or find any leverage with that leg last time out. Now older and after a full camp it cannot go well. He relied in movement so much in his prime and Chavez only caught him last time when he slowed a bit at the end. A bad idea and I hope it doesn't happen.
Always enjoyed his fights. I hope he has a long fruitful retirement. In interviews I’ve seen he is still coherent, good on him
I heard he was making a comeback. It was mentioned a month ago but it's all gone quiet since.
i can't imagine both knees have fully healed and if they haven't it would be a huge mistake to get ko'd by Chavez for a quick payday
As was stated above, movement was too much of his game. He has an old mans knees and a young mans style. After a few rounds, he'd be a sitting duck for big 160 pounders and weight bullies.
These type of injuries only get worse as you get older due to all the parts of the joint. He's had the surgery and that's good but between boxing, soccer and cycling, His meniscus (cartilage disc between the bones) in his knees are probably wearing thin. I used to refer to my knees as left and right, I refer to them as bad and worse due to ligament tears I never got the surgery for. ACL in the left knee (same injury Sergio has in right) and MCL in the right. Bad and Worse refers to the difficulty getting them back into place after they've slipped out (left one can be forced straight and popped back in but it hurts like hell because it pinches the meniscus... the other has to be hyperflexed behind me, aligned and then released into place and sometimes takes a few tries to get the alignment right). They stay put if I use a brace when doing anything athletic (but remember roach played the NYSAC on that... though brace may no longer be an issue if hes had the surgery and rehab)
Sergio is a weatherman now... He knows when the rains coming.
I can't believe there isn't more outrage about a 43 year old Martinez, who was beyond shot, returning. Although Chavez Jr isn't great, size and youth, as well as overall wellbeing will play a big roll.
Supposed to be at 168, on Nov-17, promoted by Hearn on DAZN.
Chavez jr got really fat this year. Martinez really might be safe here, if he's lived well and rehabbed his knees well he'll probably still have too much for Chavez jr. I'd watch it if it's on dazn or an other channel I get but I wouldn't try so hard to watch this.
I had no idea he was coming back until you brought it up. I looked into it and apparently said he would only come back to fight names like Mayweather or Manny too. That sounds so unlike him as he comes across as a reasonably grounded sort, but that to me is nutty talk. He is 43, has bad legs, hasn't fough in years, but wouldn't mind a fight with Manny? That's kind of mental. At what weight would that be and what makes him think he can fight 12 tough rounds being a much older man? Even Chavez is asking too much considering Chavez will no doubt be 180 plus come fight night. Surely he doesn't need the money. It cannot end well and it is a shame as he has already had a great late career though hampered by injuries towards the end. As was mentioned his style is a young mans one. It relied on movement and lacked fundamentals. It worked because he had speed, ouput and that power too. Very strange to me.
I think you're right about the nutty talk. At his age I think that's bs. Those knees will never be 100% again unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
From what I can gather Chavez Jr was saying he would like to face Sergio Mora, or for Martinez to give him a rematch, to avenge his loss. Martinez apparently responded to the request, and suggested it be in Nov. That's not far away. Somehow I just don't see this happening that soon, if ever. But with boxing I'm never surprised.