How do you think Golovkin would have done in the late 80s-early 90s MW division? Against the likes of:
McCallum
Toney
Jones
Hopkins
Kalambay
Could he hold his own?
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How do you think Golovkin would have done in the late 80s-early 90s MW division? Against the likes of:
McCallum
Toney
Jones
Hopkins
Kalambay
Could he hold his own?
He could hold his own but I wouldn't pick him to beat any of those guys, other than maybe Kalambay.
Had they fought, how many times would Bernard have touched GGG's junk en route to his foul filled and boring UD decision?
Toney would have been in a phone-booth all night so GGG might have been able to manipulate Toney's hands enough to land (or as misdirection to land) more often that you think, but admittedly that's a bit of a fanciful thought.
Kalambay I honestly haven't seen fight enough to know eitherway.
Hopkins and MacCallum are ATG so it's far too early to say but seriously doubt GGG would beat a prime version of either of those. McCallum wasn't 100% consistent but I'm not giving GGG an inch on that one.
Jones, no chance. Would be hilarious to watch - For a guy who uses his eyes as defence, with reflexes as good as they were, GGG would be utterly bamboozled.
If we're talking 160-168 though, James could move and box with the best of them, and I don't think there's any way GGG gets the best of him on the inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
James was just as good or better than Bhop when he was on. Obviously he never had Bhop's disicpline though
The way I see it, if GGG is coming and cutting the ring off, Toney would decide to show him how 'old skool ' he is and attempt to bust GGG up on the inside in an all out war. I haven't a clue if GGG would be up to that test yet (I doubt it presently), but I see some of the things from GGG that might have short-circuited Toneys adjustment.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerIf we're talking 160-168 though, James could move and box with the best of them, and I don't think there's any way GGG gets the best of him on the inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
James was just as good or better than Bhop when he was on. Obviously he never had Bhop's disicpline though
Fanciful, but just sayin. :p
You don't go from Murray, Stevens and Rubio to that roster of hof's. Golovkin doesn't yell "hustle and workrate" to me and that's a lot of what gave Toney trouble. I'd love to see Golovkin crack that half smirk as Toney repeatedly came off that high shoulder with that rockabye 6 inch counter and uppercut. He might get his hair messed up. If Toney comes in bs free and in shape he would keep Golo spinning in corners. Hopkins was a different animal at early 160 than the feint and clinch sniper we've seen over the last number of years. I think he'd chew Golovkin up over 12. Even before the bell rings, these two in particular would bring a tenacious confidence and fight hype in event lead up that Golovkin has never come close to seeing.
I like Golovkin but he does remind of a guy who has room service brought to him regardless of meal. Toney and much more so Hopkins were the guys digging through the dumpster out back for a while. No matter the reason, Golovkin needs a dog fight in a high profile before we really no what is there. He's done nothing but win and win impressively but those mentioned are seriously deep waters compared.
I don't see GGG beating any of those guys. He hasn't mixed in anything like that kind of company and probably never will.
It's actually kind of depressing seeing that list of names and comparing them to this era. Where did all the great fighters go?
You have to keep in mind that that was the last good era at MW and it was thin most years before that too. MW is by far the most overrated division. For all it's "great history" it has been either talentless or had only one great fighter the great majority.Quote:
Originally Posted by tysonesque
There seems to be a gulf but to be fair to Golovkin he has dealt with everything put in front of him in both amateur and pro careers so far. This is the trouble with mythical matches. Hell he could go up and match Ward scraping out a narrow points win on workrate, however unlikely that seems, and it still wouldn't answer the question. There are not the opponents available to replicate the ability and styles to make that call.
I think there is more to come from Golovkin. It's hard to look spectacular or masterful against average opposition. The challenge of stepping out of your comfort zone often does bring out the best in fighters.
He might have beat all of them.
This is "era bias" on our part. We think the fighters from the 80/90s are much better than current ones (me too mostly) but it's probably not the case. Just like the fossils think all these great 80/90s fighters were pansies that wouldn't live with the dinosaurs from their time.
No, I think the 80s-90s MW division was MUCH stronger than the current one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Compare
Toney
Nunn
McCallum
Jones
Hopkins
to
Cotto
Golovkin
Geale
Murray
Lee
I'm not saying it was the strongest MW division ever, but it was Murderer's Row compared to the current MW division.
He'd lose against them all, bar KalambayQuote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
As I have said before Toney, Hopkins, Jones, McCallum would school the slavic hype job named Triple G. He who dines out on beating the shit outta cab drivers, journeymen and (non title) fighters just to get his stock up but if he were to get in a D'Leoren time machine and get in the ring with real dogs like the fighters the OP mentioned then Triple G would get a brawling azz wooping from them all.
Triple G fight Ward !! You bitch. Stop calling Money out. He knows a fight against Ward means he wouldn't have any advantages (like weight as he would do with Mayweather) but he ain't calling out Ward because it's not that big of a payday.
Andre Ward !! That's who that faggot should be calling out, but his puzzy azz is trying to fight small welterweights. He wants to fight Floyd. Why ? It's a Win-Win situation. Should he pull it off ? He'll get 20 goats and six cows or whatever they get in Kazahstan, but in all seriousness. He win's and he's a legend. If he loses ? It won't matter because its Mayweather and everyone loses to Mayweather, not to mention the shitload of money he'll get.
And even if Floyd beats GGG clearly, people would then say Triple G was weight drained and all Floyd did was run all night. People will then want Floyd to take on cancer next. If he cant find a cure then clearly he cant be TBE.
I usually hate "era bias" but I think in this case we've cherry picked 4 guys who are true all time greats and could have been champs in any era.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
And then we are matching them up against a guy who is still largely unproven at MW (not that it's his fault).
Bernard, Toney and McCallum are legendary fighters, not just top guys of a certain time.
Roy Jones is in a league of his own. Personally I wouldn't pick anyone from 160-175 in the history of boxing over a prime RJJ.
He would be on "the contender"
Agree. But you've picked guys that established themselves as great fighters over a long period of time in several weight-classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_AddictNo, I think the 80s-90s MW division was MUCH stronger than the current one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Compare
Toney
Nunn
McCallum
Jones
Hopkins
to
Cotto
Golovkin
Geale
Murray
Lee
I'm not saying it was the strongest MW division ever, but it was Murderer's Row compared to the current MW division.
It took Hopkins 10 years to be considered a top fighter, then almost another 10 to be a legend.
There are other factors as well - the supermiddle division being much stronger now than back in the day.
As much as I like GGG, I don't think I could fathom those matchups yet, as we haven't been able to see if he has more than one gear. It remains to be seen whether he is just a Tank that eventually rolls over everything in his path, snuffing them out with hard punches or if he can add finesse to his game and win by design, rather than attrition. I have seen him adapt somewhat during a fight to see punches he's already been hit with but a lot of his ko's have either come while trading or walking down an opponent. The hunter has to become the hunted to reveal his guile.
At this point its theoretical style and toughness match ups. He could match up well with any raging bull types, where his chin gives him opportunities to trade and target, but with evasive, speedy combo counter punchers like jones, he could track and stalk and get cut to ribbons for his trouble without landing something flush and meaningful the whole fight. The only fight there's maybe an inkling for to me is a toney fight, if we liken GGG to a faster, better conditioned jirov who mixed up body and head punches a little better. Toney still out slicks him, but based on effective aggression and GGG chin so far and toneys reluctance to use his legs, it could go to a decision closer than maybe some think.
Against hopkins, i just see him popping the kazaks head back when hes moving straight back and tying him up, i wouldn't put it past this fight to end in some kind of controversy where the frustration winds up with hopkins thrown to the floor or rabbit punched and trying to make an easy night of it.
Given time GGG could be ranked up there with the best especially if he continues to wipe out the opposition so comprehensively. GGG is a special fighter and we should appreciate his time which we will look back in awe.