Is he, or did he avoid too many fighters?
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Is he, or did he avoid too many fighters?
ATG? Yes. I just don't see Floyd as others do... as having avoided many fighters.
Is he TBE? No. There's others above him, for many reasons.
If he isnt an ATG there are none! People always apply higher standards to current fighters then fighters of the past. Hard to find a fighter who hasnt ducked or avoided another fighter for some reason or another.
Flomos are the most annoying boxing fans ever with all this "TBE" shit - however, anyone that doesn't regard him as an all-time great has some serious explaining to do. His record, regardless of the fighters he "missed" in his era, is terrific.
If you don't think he's a great fighter what does that say about the "great" fighters he's beat?
One of the finest talents in the history of boxing. Possibly the finest.
Trash the guy all you want but you can't trash the boxer without looking like an idiot.
He is one of the best ever .
Hahaha!
No question, he's an all time great and I think in 50 years time he'll be remembered alot more fondly than he is now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I take issue with his fans being the most annoying. When Pacquiao was at his height when he beat Hatton and Cotto, his biased, rose tinted glasses wearing, dickhead fans are by far and away the worst I have ever seen.
I think he has redefined what it is to be great. Which is great in itself.
Yes he is. He beat the shit out of everyone he's faced.
Of course he is.
He is the best of this era.
He is not the best ever.
Eleven well-expressed, honest posts....... and one post made while deep-throating the man in question.
He is ALMOST like one of those old time fighters, but not quite.
Who are you saying he avoided?Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
The great fraud Antonio Margarito of course. People ignore that Floyd said 8 million, Bob said no, Floyd paid 750k to get out of his contract and Bob immediately offered 8 million but with Bob getting rights back. Which is obviously not a real offer but a giant fuck you. People don't keep track of the facts when they don't suit their needs. Instead, Floyd ducked Floyd ducked, logic be damned.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Who are you saying he avoided?Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
What people either don't know or just intentionally leave out is that Floyd accepted the Margarito fight.
The problem was Floyd injured his hand against Judah and told Arum to make the fight happen in the fall of 2006. Arum said no, the fight is happening on August 12th, 2006 because I already have the venue booked. Floyd said no, that's not enough time to heal up and get a proper camp in, so Arum booked the Rahman/Maskaev rematch for that date and the fight fell through.
Who are the two guys people say Floyd ducked? Margarito is one, and I guess Paul Williams is the other? Both tough guys, but would any of you honestly pick either guy against Floyd? Paul was a beast but had his flaws. Quintana outboxed him at WW.
There's video of Floyd calling out a ton of guys, including DLH and Mosley while they were in their primes. I actually have an article from 2002 or so where Floyd calls out De La Hoya, even though Floyd was fighting at 130 and DLH was at 154 (Floyd Sr thought his son was crazy and was going to get killed).
Sometimes I think he is, then he picks a guy like Berto to fight and I'm not sure.
Maybe I'm just too hard on the man, what with me expecting an ATG to always strive to fight the best.
Cherrypicking is widespread and blatant so it's useless to complain, isn't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
No one denies his incredible God Given boxing talents BUT talent alone does not make a boxer an ATG. If only Floyd had the cojones of a champion to match his talents but sadly he doesn't. He really could be ranked up there among the greats like Ali & Robinson if he hadn't been so dumb. He basically sabotaged himself cherry pickers don't make ATG status
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Floyd talks a good fight lol shame he couldn't back it uo. Floyd NEVER wanted Margarito he was scared shitless of hm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonThe great fraud Antonio Margarito of course. People ignore that Floyd said 8 million, Bob said no, Floyd paid 750k to get out of his contract and Bob immediately offered 8 million but with Bob getting rights back. Which is obviously not a real offer but a giant fuck you. People don't keep track of the facts when they don't suit their needs. Instead, Floyd ducked Floyd ducked, logic be damned.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3Who are you saying he avoided?Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Floyd did duck Margarito Floyd was literally shite scared of him
Floyd ATG TBE PPV KING Mayweather
That's a ridiculous post I highly doubt there's any elite fighters that are scared of anyone, they fight for a living none of them are scared. People need to remember boxing is a business and making the most money should be your number 1 priority. I know if I was a boxer I wouldn't give a shit about the fans I would want the most money for putting my life on the lineQuote:
Originally Posted by C.J.RockQuote:
Originally Posted by Beanflicker
Floyd talks a good fight lol shame he couldn't back it uo. Floyd NEVER wanted Margarito he was scared shitless of hm
Someone here recently asked 'What style has Floyd not fought?'
And I went and did some research and found that Floyd had only ONCE fought:
And the list of fighters that he didn't, included:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
The only top 10 P4P guy he fought, while in their prime and in their weight class was Diego Corrales.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
No surprise then that to this day, that win is regarded as his best win.
Again, I'm not saying that he wouldn't beat those guys under the conditions mentioned above, I'm just stating the fact that he didn't/ hasn't.
Hence, why I say he has managed his career exceptionally well.
Fuck it, good for him. I applaud him for it. He has done everything at the right time. He even admits it himself... Look, this game is about putting your life on the line, just to put food on the table for your kids. If you can get control over your career and call the shots on what you do, when you do it, who you do it with, under what conditions and make everybody believe that you are the best ever to do it, then bloody well done. Seriously, no hate but truth be told.
TBE*
Most boxing fans live in the fantasy world where every champion before Floyd didn't give two shits about money and only fought the men they thought would give them the hardest fights, regardless of the payoffs. This fantasy world is sacred to them and they don't take kindly to people using logic and reasoning to tear it down.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
There are people - GROWN MEN - who are reading this right now who truly believe guys like Sugar Ray Robinson and his handlers never chose their fights and, at some point, picked a easier fight for bigger money over a harder fight for smaller money.
It boggles my mind.
When you say that, you are inferring that Floyd avoided all those guys in their primes and chose to fight them when they were washed up, and that just isn't true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
People forget that Floyd wasn't always "Money Mayweather" making 32 million a fight. At one point, Floyd himself was one of the most avoided men in the sport because he was an incredible talent and had no name value. Guys like Mosley though "well why the hell would I fight this young virtuoso and make peanuts, when I could move up to WW and fight De La Hoya for millions", and that's exactly what happened.
Here's Floyd challenging Oscar in his prime... when he was fight 19lbs above him. Oscar turns it down, saying he has nothing to gain.
LAS VEGAS, April 18— The wrapping of the hands took a half-hour, nothing unusual in boxing. Hands are a vulnerable part of a fighter's body, and in the case of Floyd Mayweather Jr., the delicate instruments of violence hurt chronically. That makes punching opponents almost as painful for Mayweather, the undefeated lightweight champion, as it is for the men he is hitting.
Bad bones run in the family, Mayweather's father, Floyd Mayweather Sr., said from Oscar De La Hoya's training camp in California. So does bad blood, which is being spilled in some ugly prefight hype for a fight that may never happen.
Mayweather Jr., now 26 and a world champion since age 21, is unbeaten in 29 professional bouts with 20 knockouts, but none since 2001 because of his bad hands.
Floyd Mayweather Sr., a fringe contender as a welterweight more than 20 years ago and now the self-proclaimed finest trainer in the world, says his son has deteriorated since throwing him out of his house here and replacing him as his trainer with his uncle Roger Mayweather. Mayweather Sr. and his brother Roger, a two-time world champion, make up a rivalry that is hotter than most inside the ring.
''My father is jealous of me,'' Mayweather Jr. said at the Top Rank Gym here as Rafael Garcia, a 73-year-old cornerman who worked for Roberto Duran, Edwin Rosario and Vito Antuofermo, was patiently applying gauze and tape to his brittle hands. ''His career never took off. He knows as a fighter he was never as good as me. In fact, he was never better than me at nothing.''
The younger Mayweather left Wednesday for Fresno, Calif., where on Saturday he will defend the World Boxing Council 135-pound title against Victoriano Sosa of the Dominican Republic. Sosa (35-2-2 with 26 knockouts) is a good hitter, though not in the class of a second cousin, Sammy Sosa of the Chicago Cubs.
Mayweather called Sosa a solid opponent and insisted he was not looking ahead. But he talked more about De La Hoya and his estranged father than he did about Sosa.
And with De La Hoya a heavy favorite over Yory Boy Campos on May 3, there has been more interest in the possible De La Hoya-Mayweather confrontation than in either of the two apparent mismatches.
Mayweather would be jumping up 19 pounds to challenge De La Hoya. But before anyone can say David and Goliath, there are other marketing tools that the promoter Bob Arum is eager to use. It would be the first time a fighter would be looking across the ring at his father in the other corner, Arum said.
''It's an incredible story line,'' said Arum, who is planning it for Cinco de Mayo next year, not Father's Day.
De La Hoya said again this week that he had ''nothing to gain with a fight like that,'' though Arum said he was sure he could persuade De La Hoya to accept the challenge.
Mayweather Jr. says that De La Hoya's reluctance is his father's work, that his father ''knows I can beat Oscar and doesn't want me to fight him.''
Mayweather Sr. called his son a liar, and that was one of the milder admonitions. He said his son's ''got to try to rain on his daddy's parade,'' meaning he would be expected to excuse himself from De La Hoya's corner, and miss a big payday, if De La Hoya were to fight Mayweather.
''The Bible says, 'Honor thy father and thy mother,' and three years ago he kicked me out of the house for a man named James Prince, who has made $3 million from my son while I made $75,000,'' Mayweather Sr. said.
Prince is a rap music producer who is Mayweather Jr.'s manager, a relationship that is not expected to be renewed when the contract expires soon.
Three of Mayweather Jr.'s young children had the run of the gym as he was having his hands taped. Mayweather called to his 2-year-old daughter, Iyanna. She toddled away instead.
''She must get that from her grandfather,'' Mayweather Jr. said.
He was not worried about possible ''Daddy Dearest'' marketing for a De La Hoya fight. ''If that's what's going to sell, sell it,'' he said. ''Show me that money.''
He flashed a smile that could light up arenas. Yet for all his talent, Mayweather Jr. has not attained superstar status, and he blames Arum, whom he will leave next year when their contract expires.
Mayweather Jr. is unquestionably one of the best fighters in the world. In Boxing Digest's ratings, De La Hoya is No. 3 and Mayweather No. 4 behind Roy Jones Jr. and Bernard Hopkins. But Mayweather Sr. said his son would have no chance against De La Hoya.
''Oscar's too big for him; he'd walk right through my son,'' he said.
Mayweather Jr. said Pernell Whitaker beat De La Hoya easily in a controversial decision that went De La Hoya's way in 1997, ''and there's no difference between me and Whitaker, except I punch harder.''
He also cited Shane Mosley, who beat De La Hoya in 2000, and who has a rematch with De La Hoya on Sept. 13. ''Mosley ain't in my league,'' Mayweather Jr. said.
It was suggested that he might be overjoyed to beat Arum's biggest star while leaving Arum next year and at the same time defeating his father's fighter.
''That's the beauty of it,'' Mayweather Jr. said. ''That's the story behind it.''
Photos: Floyd Mayweather Jr., above, wants a shot at Oscar De La Hoya and his trainer, Floyd Mayweather Sr., left. Mayweather Sr. said De La Hoya ''would walk right through my son.'' (Photographs by Associated Press)
I don't infer anything. I said he didn't simply because he hasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerWhen you say that, you are inferring that Floyd avoided all those guys in their primes and chose to fight them when they were washed up, and that just isn't true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
People forget that Floyd wasn't always "Money Mayweather" making 32 million a fight. At one point, Floyd himself was one of the most avoided men in the sport because he was an incredible talent and had no name value. Guys like Mosley though "well why the hell would I fight this young virtuoso and make peanuts, when I could move up to WW and fight De La Hoya for millions", and that's exactly what happened.
***Edit*** Actually, if you want to shake that stick at me then have some back; that's like me saying your inferring that Dela Hoya initially ducked Mayweather.
Well then look at it this way; what did you think when you first heard Dela Hoya was fighting Pacquiao?
Exactly.
And that was an old shot Dela Hoya. So what business has a young prime Dela Hoya got, fighting a 135lbs Mayweather? That fight was never gonna happen at that time.
Anyway, IMO that was more about Arum vs Dela Hoya than anything esle.
ummm, Sure. Stats Wise, he made it further than most. That's what most people will remember, his defense and pulling off wins. The other stuff will appear inconsequential to most and not be remembered by most. Some may have an asterisk next to some of his fights but every fighter may have some of those.
Honestly, I think his "greatness" may have a tapering off effect as other fighters promoters and other lesser talented fighters start to emulate some of his strategies for prefight demands, choosing their own opponents, utilizing promoter/advisor muscle (venue holding dates, paying off sparring partners), and other stuff like , drug testing requirements, catch weights, freddy roache's commission appeals against knee braces, title hostage holdings (cotto), etc... There will be plenty of "good enough" guys with inflated records or Sven ottke types with better marketing that may be pushed to the forefront, that the criteria for greatness may become stiffer than ever by the loyalists or washed out completely by the casual fans. The networks, promoters, and the NVSAC will quickly try to fill the hole left by floyds absence and that leaves little space time wise, between Floyd and whoever his successor will be. With the bag of tricks listed above, there will be lots of f*ckery on display. Look at whats its done for fighters like danny garcia, khan, petersen, Chavez Jr., Leo SantaCruz, stevenson etc. Even though i like some of these fighters, I cant help but wonder where they would be without, gimme fights, technicalities or creative matchups instead of fighting mandatories or the stuff listed above.
** As a side note: My opinion is, the "money generated/per fight salary" wont become or carry the prestige that many will hope because its relative to costs of living and inflation.
:vd: forgot about that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Undisputed
Which is why that '0' is so important to Floyd.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Undisputed
Fuckin' love your posts bro. Just had to share that ;D
Well by the definition of "duck" that people are using here... didn't Oscar duck Floyd?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Floyd challenged him, said he'd whip his ass, and Oscar refused to fight him.
Now personally, I have no problem with that. What did Oscar have to gain by fighting a relative unknown that was fighting 3 or 4 weight classes below him?
But according to a lot of boxing fans, you have to fight anyone and everyone who asks to fight you or else you're a coward, so I guess DLH did duck Floyd.
Floyd reportedly made about 200 million against Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Undisputed
So that's about $15,085,610.84 in 1945 dollars (according to Inflation Calculator). Do you think Sugar Ray Robinson, Jake Lamotta, Willie Pep, ect ever got a 15 million dollar payday?
Floyd reportedly has a base fee of 32 million.
So that's about $2,400,288.30 in 1945 dollars. Do you think Sugar Ray Robinson, Jake Lamotta, Willie Pep, ect ever got a guarenteed 2.5 million for one fight?
In 1975, Foreman and Ali reportedly got 5 million each to fight the Rumble in the Jungle. In 2015 dollars that's still only $22,178,252.79 - 10 million short of Floyd's minimum guarantee.
To be pedantic......He wasnt always making 32 million a fight, but I'd say he was always "Money Mayweather" from the moment he mentioned "Slave wages" when negotiation a new contract.Quote:
When you say that, you are inferring that Floyd avoided all those guys in their primes and chose to fight them when they were washed up, and that just isn't true.
People forget that Floyd wasn't always "Money Mayweather" making 32 million a fight.
He was always an asshole for sure, but what I meant by that is that Floyd wasn't always the money man in boxing who could call all the shots and had guys lining up to fight him so they could get a mega payday.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanatogen
Right now everyone wants to fight Floyd because they are going to make exponentially more than they could fighting anyone else.
But could you imagine if Floyd wasn't a known commodity and if you fought him, you'd be doing so for peanuts? Nobody would want to fight him, because it would be high risk (losing and looking bad) and low reward. That's what Floyd was back in the day. A high risk, and a low reward.
The fact is, boxing has ALWAYS been a business first, sport second.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerMost boxing fans live in the fantasy world where every champion before Floyd didn't give two shits about money and only fought the men they thought would give them the hardest fights, regardless of the payoffs. This fantasy world is sacred to them and they don't take kindly to people using logic and reasoning to tear it down.Quote:
Originally Posted by g3org3
There are people - GROWN MEN - who are reading this right now who truly believe guys like Sugar Ray Robinson and his handlers never chose their fights and, at some point, picked a easier fight for bigger money over a harder fight for smaller money.
It boggles my mind.
Boxing fans have to be some of the most naive fans of any sport.
Good point but I think you can only really make it a matter of relevance If you are able to correctly discount all that equates to and as a result of ppv numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerFloyd reportedly made about 200 million against Pac.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Undisputed
So that's about $15,085,610.84 in 1945 dollars (according to Inflation Calculator). Do you think Sugar Ray Robinson, Jake Lamotta, Willie Pep, ect ever got a 15 million dollar payday?
Floyd reportedly has a base fee of 32 million.
So that's about $2,400,288.30 in 1945 dollars. Do you think Sugar Ray Robinson, Jake Lamotta, Willie Pep, ect ever got a guarenteed 2.5 million for one fight?
In 1975, Foreman and Ali reportedly got 5 million each to fight the Rumble in the Jungle. In 2015 dollars that's still only $22,178,252.79 - 10 million short of Floyd's minimum guarantee.
As media grows and develops, I'm sure in the future there will be additional revenue streams that add to a fighters luster and personal wealth.
Well I certainly hope so, and I hope that more fighters start following the Floyd Mayweather blueprint and becoming their own bosses, promoting themselves, cutting out the Don King's and Bob Arum's of the world, and start taking home the lion's share of the money they generate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Floyd is an ATG but not TBE.
Floyd is a woman beating in front of his children little shit who has no class. I hope he goes broke and has to make a return and gets beats.
I read that like a 'Hitler's reaction to Floyd Mayweather being inducted in to the HoF' ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Definitely. 100% agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanflickerWell I certainly hope so, and I hope that more fighters start following the Floyd Mayweather blueprint and becoming their own bosses, promoting themselves, cutting out the Don King's and Bob Arum's of the world, and start taking home the lion's share of the money they generate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Won't it be weird though, in the distant future, if we find ourselves as old men defending the fighters of our generation over the next lot because theirs make way more money and get more views on YouTube and have more followers on Twitter in addition to being bigger stronger better athletes.
Fuck it, I'd probably be the first to argue how they don't make em as though as they used to :-X