Everyone happy with GGG next opponent?
Can David slay Goliath?
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Everyone happy with GGG next opponent?
Can David slay Goliath?
Probably the best willing and available for the fight. I guess it could be said he earned his shot. Can he Beat triple G. I think it really depends on How GGG plans to fight.
- Triple G can box him and try to take the starch out of him early, use his jab and make lemmy waste a lot of energy early. Eventually, line him up and walk him into big shots.
- Triple G can brawl and give this kid a chance to land a big shot. Even if he doesnt Brawl, GGG is not a defensive whiz so with the right training and good set of eyes, Lemmys camp could still workout a game plan to land a shot.
If GGG is smart, he'll jab him and pick at him from the outside. Flurry with him in the phone booth to give the fans some excitement and then tie him up. The Key for GGG is to avoid that mid-range where Lemmys punches are their most lethal. The Key for Lemieux is to slip that lead punch get into the mid range, use his jab back GGG (he has a bad habit sometime of going straight back sometimes) and set up something big. When GGG gets him in close range and attempts to tie him up, lemieux needs to keep the attack going, work the hooks to the body and avoid an uppercut that can shorten his night (Lemieux has a bad habit of keep his head down while inside--ripping wide hooks to the body leaves a wide window of opportunity for GGG to come straight up the middle with something heavy.)
Say what you will about the limited skills (and perhaps beard) of Lemieux, hes still not a weatherbeaten Berto. Just my opinion.
Yep, just about the best MW Available that's prepared to fight him. Of course , the anti GGG mob will say he should be stepping up to fight Ward and the rest of the SMW's, but they're all tied up at the moment, and Ward is supposedly fighting TBA on the Canelo-Cotto undercard.
Berto should not be compared as mayweather is in a different place from GGG.Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Undisputed
Ten years ahead in constant champion wins and about to retire.
If GGG does beat David then the best business move is to pick on the little guys winner from canelo and cotto and then take the ultimate test in Andre ward.
It's a good fight. Lemieux isn't great but he's one of the best at the weight. Just the weight class doesn't have much to offer.
The division is in scam mode. The Kazak according to Fat Dan got between 800,000 to 900,000 to step aside for the farce championship.They got off easy all things considered. Now the fake champion is making 30 million to fight a non-middle who gets close to 4 million in a catchweight fight for whats called the Ring and lineal middleweight title.
Sanctioned racketeering.
He'll find someone worthy before his prime ends. I remember listening to Jake Lamotta talk about Marvin Haglar- he said- Haglar wasn't that good because he didn't have real competition in his era LOL!
Haglar is probably saying the same thing about GGG.
Just came to me- Jake said about Haglar what we say about guys like Floyd.
He said Hagla's best fights came against guys who were WW's that gained weight. not TRUE MW's
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Well, Hagler did make his name off of x welter stars that moved up. So did Monzon and Hopkins.
The Kazaks problem is different and if you will 3 fold. This "A-side" posing as champions wont fight him. None of the other 3 had that problem. He's destroyed everyone he's fought and even when he's a mandatory and aired out the division and all thats left is unification, the one falsely recognized as the REAL champion wont fight him holding top spot hostage and putting on farcical defenses. Those 3 never dealt with that either. And finally the welters wont move up and fight him. They did for those 3.
Hagler would have smashed Jake Lamotta and that is all that matters. Actually so would have Hearns and many of the opponents Hagler beat.
Exactly. Lamotta was tough as nails but couldn't crack an egg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
He's the bull in the china shop that is the middleweight division. All you can do is beat up everyone willing to step in and for what he lacks, Lemieux can crack and thinks he belongs and unlike some diva champs he'll try to prove it.
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Well, Hagler did make his name off of x welter stars that moved up. So did Monzon and Hopkins.
The Kazaks problem is different and if you will 3 fold. This "A-side" posing as champions wont fight him. None of the other 3 had that problem. He's destroyed everyone he's fought and even when he's a mandatory and aired out the division and all thats left is unification, the one falsely recognized as the REAL champion wont fight him holding top spot hostage and putting on farcical defenses. Those 3 never dealt with that either. And finally the welters wont move up and fight him. They did for those 3.
It's all true. But the big difference for Haglers era was the best Welters were big. The best welters now started well below welter and have maxed out size wise. There's a big difference between guys 5'10/6'1 and guys 5'6/5'8Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Well, Hagler did make his name off of x welter stars that moved up. So did Monzon and Hopkins.
The Kazaks problem is different and if you will 3 fold. This "A-side" posing as champions wont fight him. None of the other 3 had that problem. He's destroyed everyone he's fought and even when he's a mandatory and aired out the division and all thats left is unification, the one falsely recognized as the REAL champion wont fight him holding top spot hostage and putting on farcical defenses. Those 3 never dealt with that either. And finally the welters wont move up and fight him. They did for those 3.
Pretty sure golovkin is being set up by hbo(big tv guys are really in control I think) to fight the winner of cotto v canelo , so it's certainly a good fight to kill time for golovkin, I really believe golovkin will be fighting for the wbc belt next year, if he wins of course.
Sorry but that's not true. Most welters of yesterday started out much lighter also. In addition Hagler fought them way out of their prime and at a weight outside their prime. Guys like Floyd and Manny are anomalies not the norm. Most welters today are natural middleweights fighting at 47. In addition the Kazak is a small middleweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's all true. But the big difference for Haglers era was the best Welters were big. The best welters now started well below welter and have maxed out size wise. There's a big difference between guys 5'10/6'1 and guys 5'6/5'8Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Well, Hagler did make his name off of x welter stars that moved up. So did Monzon and Hopkins.
The Kazaks problem is different and if you will 3 fold. This "A-side" posing as champions wont fight him. None of the other 3 had that problem. He's destroyed everyone he's fought and even when he's a mandatory and aired out the division and all thats left is unification, the one falsely recognized as the REAL champion wont fight him holding top spot hostage and putting on farcical defenses. Those 3 never dealt with that either. And finally the welters wont move up and fight him. They did for those 3.
I didn't say most. I said the best. Manny and Floyd are far smaller than Leonard and HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitSorry but that's not true. Most welters of yesterday started out much lighter also. In addition Hagler fought them way out of their prime and at a weight outside their prime. Guys like Floyd and Manny are anomalies not the norm. Most welters today are natural middleweights fighting at 47. In addition the Kazak is a small middleweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's all true. But the big difference for Haglers era was the best Welters were big. The best welters now started well below welter and have maxed out size wise. There's a big difference between guys 5'10/6'1 and guys 5'6/5'8Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Well, Hagler did make his name off of x welter stars that moved up. So did Monzon and Hopkins.
The Kazaks problem is different and if you will 3 fold. This "A-side" posing as champions wont fight him. None of the other 3 had that problem. He's destroyed everyone he's fought and even when he's a mandatory and aired out the division and all thats left is unification, the one falsely recognized as the REAL champion wont fight him holding top spot hostage and putting on farcical defenses. Those 3 never dealt with that either. And finally the welters wont move up and fight him. They did for those 3.
Like I said they are rare and Ray walked around as a welter earlier in his career also. Point is after the hair splitting is gone, the Kazak has dominated a much better group of middleweight "opponents"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI didn't say most. I said the best. Manny and Floyd are far smaller than Leonard and HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitSorry but that's not true. Most welters of yesterday started out much lighter also. In addition Hagler fought them way out of their prime and at a weight outside their prime. Guys like Floyd and Manny are anomalies not the norm. Most welters today are natural middleweights fighting at 47. In addition the Kazak is a small middleweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's all true. But the big difference for Haglers era was the best Welters were big. The best welters now started well below welter and have maxed out size wise. There's a big difference between guys 5'10/6'1 and guys 5'6/5'8Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Well, Hagler did make his name off of x welter stars that moved up. So did Monzon and Hopkins.
The Kazaks problem is different and if you will 3 fold. This "A-side" posing as champions wont fight him. None of the other 3 had that problem. He's destroyed everyone he's fought and even when he's a mandatory and aired out the division and all thats left is unification, the one falsely recognized as the REAL champion wont fight him holding top spot hostage and putting on farcical defenses. Those 3 never dealt with that either. And finally the welters wont move up and fight him. They did for those 3.
then most middleweight champions did before him. Another fact is that the three mentioned made their names on the back of x welters and the star welters wont move up to fight the Kaz, the rest of the middle weights run for the hills, make up weight classes that dont exist while calling themselves champions or using lame excuses like "a-side". Now that Kid Ovaltine has announced his entrance to 168 "cause its better suited " for him you can add jumping up to avoid him to the list. All of this has unfolded in front of everyone.
Pretty good debating on both sides.
I agree with the basic idea you are speaking of I just don't think many of the particulars make much difference. Let's say Canelo beats Cotto and GGG then beats Canelo. Does that somehow make him a greater fighter? I don't think so. Canelo hasn't even ever proven himself the best at 154 let alone proven anything at all at 160. GGG is generally caught between a rock and a hard place and we all know what the answer to prove his greatness is. He isn't the only victim of the risk/reward era, Andrade can't even get a fight. Not that I think he is some great but Canelo wasn't going near him either. That's the point of 155. He isn't forced to fight anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitLike I said they are rare and Ray walked around as a welter earlier in his career also. Point is after the hair splitting is gone, the Kazak has dominated a much better group of middleweight "opponents"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI didn't say most. I said the best. Manny and Floyd are far smaller than Leonard and HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitSorry but that's not true. Most welters of yesterday started out much lighter also. In addition Hagler fought them way out of their prime and at a weight outside their prime. Guys like Floyd and Manny are anomalies not the norm. Most welters today are natural middleweights fighting at 47. In addition the Kazak is a small middleweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's all true. But the big difference for Haglers era was the best Welters were big. The best welters now started well below welter and have maxed out size wise. There's a big difference between guys 5'10/6'1 and guys 5'6/5'8Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Well, Hagler did make his name off of x welter stars that moved up. So did Monzon and Hopkins.
The Kazaks problem is different and if you will 3 fold. This "A-side" posing as champions wont fight him. None of the other 3 had that problem. He's destroyed everyone he's fought and even when he's a mandatory and aired out the division and all thats left is unification, the one falsely recognized as the REAL champion wont fight him holding top spot hostage and putting on farcical defenses. Those 3 never dealt with that either. And finally the welters wont move up and fight him. They did for those 3.
then most middleweight champions did before him. Another fact is that the three mentioned made their names on the back of x welters and the star welters wont move up to fight the Kaz, the rest of the middle weights run for the hills, make up weight classes that dont exist while calling themselves champions or using lame excuses like "a-side". Now that Kid Ovaltine has announced his entrance to 168 "cause its better suited " for him you can add jumping up to avoid him to the list. All of this has unfolded in front of everyone.
There is only one fight that matters for GGG. It's not fair that that is how it is but that is how it is. MW has proven beneath him by actions if not in the ring. Everyone says he's a small MW, he's a small MW. Then why do they also say if he goes up to 168 he is stuck after one fight? I thought he was a small MW, he should be able to drop back down with ease. His team talks out of both sides of their mouth as much as anyone. That's this era I suppose but at the end of the day a great fighter has to beat a great fighter at a weight where they are great.
I'm As ready as anyone to jump back on board, all he has to do is make a great fight. Telling Ward to drop 8lbs for a paycut is ridiculous. I could even get on board if they said "we don't want to fight Ward". He's not required to, there are weightclasses for a reason. But if they are going to pretend they have interest with bogus offers in the media then there are expectations they themselves created.
GGG/Lemieux is a good fight, I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it. To me it is a better fight than the Cotto/Canelo winner because those guys have lost a lot of respect in my eyes. But at the end of the day Lemieux did lose to a guy in the middle of a 1-6-1 stretch. He was the only win for a guy in 8 fights. That's hard to shake off. He looks better since but he still winds way up. It's a good fight though. Some want to see GGG lose. I just want to see more from him. You know what more is, I know what more is, everyone knows. So they should stop with the 10,000 reasons why it isn't happening and tell us yes or no will it happen, do they want it. Then they could fight good fights till the end of GGGs career. Just, if you're going to play the people's champ role, be honest with the people. I'll accept whatever answer they give as long as it is concise.
Since I was so long winded I'll add a little interesting GGG video(assuming I can, I hate my iPhone)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nZZ2GrBRNxY
i think its a good fight
im looking forward to it anyway
I've asked this before and never got an answer, but I'll ask again. When did GGG ever ask Ward to drop 8lbs? Yeah GGG is a relatively small MW, so the idea that cos he's small, he can get back to MW easy enough is more or less saying "he doesn't have to go up "all the way, fuck it give even more weight away!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI agree with the basic idea you are speaking of I just don't think many of the particulars make much difference. Let's say Canelo beats Cotto and GGG then beats Canelo. Does that somehow make him a greater fighter? I don't think so. Canelo hasn't even ever proven himself the best at 154 let alone proven anything at all at 160. GGG is generally caught between a rock and a hard place and we all know what the answer to prove his greatness is. He isn't the only victim of the risk/reward era, Andrade can't even get a fight. Not that I think he is some great but Canelo wasn't going near him either. That's the point of 155. He isn't forced to fight anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitLike I said they are rare and Ray walked around as a welter earlier in his career also. Point is after the hair splitting is gone, the Kazak has dominated a much better group of middleweight "opponents"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI didn't say most. I said the best. Manny and Floyd are far smaller than Leonard and HearnsQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitSorry but that's not true. Most welters of yesterday started out much lighter also. In addition Hagler fought them way out of their prime and at a weight outside their prime. Guys like Floyd and Manny are anomalies not the norm. Most welters today are natural middleweights fighting at 47. In addition the Kazak is a small middleweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's all true. But the big difference for Haglers era was the best Welters were big. The best welters now started well below welter and have maxed out size wise. There's a big difference between guys 5'10/6'1 and guys 5'6/5'8Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Well, Hagler did make his name off of x welter stars that moved up. So did Monzon and Hopkins.
The Kazaks problem is different and if you will 3 fold. This "A-side" posing as champions wont fight him. None of the other 3 had that problem. He's destroyed everyone he's fought and even when he's a mandatory and aired out the division and all thats left is unification, the one falsely recognized as the REAL champion wont fight him holding top spot hostage and putting on farcical defenses. Those 3 never dealt with that either. And finally the welters wont move up and fight him. They did for those 3.
then most middleweight champions did before him. Another fact is that the three mentioned made their names on the back of x welters and the star welters wont move up to fight the Kaz, the rest of the middle weights run for the hills, make up weight classes that dont exist while calling themselves champions or using lame excuses like "a-side". Now that Kid Ovaltine has announced his entrance to 168 "cause its better suited " for him you can add jumping up to avoid him to the list. All of this has unfolded in front of everyone.
There is only one fight that matters for GGG. It's not fair that that is how it is but that is how it is. MW has proven beneath him by actions if not in the ring. Everyone says he's a small MW, he's a small MW. Then why do they also say if he goes up to 168 he is stuck after one fight? I thought he was a small MW, he should be able to drop back down with ease. His team talks out of both sides of their mouth as much as anyone. That's this era I suppose but at the end of the day a great fighter has to beat a great fighter at a weight where they are great.
I'm As ready as anyone to jump back on board, all he has to do is make a great fight. Telling Ward to drop 8lbs for a paycut is ridiculous. I could even get on board if they said "we don't want to fight Ward". He's not required to, there are weightclasses for a reason. But if they are going to pretend they have interest with bogus offers in the media then there are expectations they themselves created.
GGG/Lemieux is a good fight, I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it. To me it is a better fight than the Cotto/Canelo winner because those guys have lost a lot of respect in my eyes. But at the end of the day Lemieux did lose to a guy in the middle of a 1-6-1 stretch. He was the only win for a guy in 8 fights. That's hard to shake off. He looks better since but he still winds way up. It's a good fight though. Some want to see GGG lose. I just want to see more from him. You know what more is, I know what more is, everyone knows. So they should stop with the 10,000 reasons why it isn't happening and tell us yes or no will it happen, do they want it. Then they could fight good fights till the end of GGGs career. Just, if you're going to play the people's champ role, be honest with the people. I'll accept whatever answer they give as long as it is concise.
Since I was so long winded I'll add a little interesting GGG video(assuming I can, I hate my iPhone)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nZZ2GrBRNxY
Look, I don't think it's a realistic fight, they are different weights , different sizes, it's just nature working against it. I don't think there's any shame in Golovkin saying " He's one of the best fighters on the planet , so for me to step up, and concede, weight , height and reach is a bit unrealistic. So to make it more even, we would need to meet halfway." That shows a lot of respect for Ward.
Btw I reckon if the fight ever came off , Ward would win.
GGG is avoided by the so called top middleweights now, if he went up to fight Ward and lose, he would be even more sidelined than he is now. It is a bad business move to go up in weight.
There are some decent junior middleweights that could step up that might make for fun matches with GGG, such as Andrade and Canelo. As for the middleweights, Lemieux might be the best of the current lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonIt's all true. But the big difference for Haglers era was the best Welters were big. The best welters now started well below welter and have maxed out size wise. There's a big difference between guys 5'10/6'1 and guys 5'6/5'8Quote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitQuote:
Originally Posted by SlimTrae
Well, Hagler did make his name off of x welter stars that moved up. So did Monzon and Hopkins.
The Kazaks problem is different and if you will 3 fold. This "A-side" posing as champions wont fight him. None of the other 3 had that problem. He's destroyed everyone he's fought and even when he's a mandatory and aired out the division and all thats left is unification, the one falsely recognized as the REAL champion wont fight him holding top spot hostage and putting on farcical defenses. Those 3 never dealt with that either. And finally the welters wont move up and fight him. They did for those 3.
Especially when the same Ward is going the other direction and fighting catchweights. Its a unification after all. Was a time when one less floating trinket was a good thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
I say Kudos to David Lemieux he had the cojones to challenge GGG while all the other so called 160 elite are avoiding him like he had the black plague or something. I expect it to be an exciting fight between two fighters with KO power. May the best man on the night WIN!!!