Some of the greatest fighters of all time had big, glaring flaws in their game, that caused some of their fights to be tougher than they should have been. Who are some fighters, and what were their flaws?
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Some of the greatest fighters of all time had big, glaring flaws in their game, that caused some of their fights to be tougher than they should have been. Who are some fighters, and what were their flaws?
Well after a time as middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins basically just did math in the ring, and would win the early rounds take a rest in the middle rounds then pour it on for the later rounds so it was just a matter of stealing rounds from him to keep him from resting midway through the fight....easier said than done though.
Ali tired too much and took long times off in rounds...
Foreman was a terrible counter-puncher...
Oscar DLH never won out tough fights... he didn't have the grit...
Shane Mosely never liked to get punched back... good counter-puncher, but when you hit him with combos, he backs off...
Tyson gave up on himself in the ring... more than once... Douglas, Holyfield he just gave up...
Chavez was a slow puncher... you can see his punches a mile off... he couldn't beat anyone with great head movement and reflexes, ala Sweet Pea Whitaker.
Cotto has little to NO head movement... that's why Pac beat him to a crisp...
Manny gets hit way too often... because he is always coming forward, throwing punches. Very rarely back fought and boxed on the back foot.
Sugar Ray, for as fast as he was, was always second in the exchanges. Watch closely his fight with Duran, both with Hearns and with Hagler, even though he won most of them, he was ALWAYS second in the exchanges. What he made up for it was with fast combinations, because he had natural talent.
Roy... kept his hands down way too often... tis why he got knocked out by Johnson and Tarver like he did.
I disagree with just about every one of theseQuote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
Ali had loads never punched to the body, relied on his reflexes and later his chin, carried his hand too low, moved around too much and wasted a lot of energy. Still great though.
Leonard got too involved in being a warrior against Duran the first time.
Hearns had a suspect chin and maybe relied on his power too much.
How about Pacquiao? His lack of an inside game.
He looked totally clueless when Bradley clinched him in their rematch.
Manny has loads but gets away with it through his fitness, speed, conditioning and power.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
So did Roy Jones for that matter.
Agreed. If you are an ATG and have a glaring flaw, it means that your strengths are magnified. Like pac is always opened for a counter but most people are afraid to go for it because he may hit you in the process. Same with Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterManny has loads but gets away with it through his fitness, speed, conditioning and power.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
So did Roy Jones for that matter.
Roy Jones did not jab enough.
Duran and James Toney had slow feet.
Willie Pep and Sweet Pea Whitaker lacked fight ending power (Hurtado k.o. was a fluke).
Prime Foreman lacked the ability to pace himself/stamina.
Then Mike McCallum did not have fight ending power except the Donald Curry fight. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
BTW, I'm talking about fighting flaws. Like, technical flaws.
I know but milkeeod started it.Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Paul Williams - Crouching, fighting low
Kelly Pavlik - Not making any time of improvements as a fighter as his career progressed.
Jermain Taylor - See above
Terry Norris - Leaving himself completely open to counters during exchanges or while he's delivering punches. Protect yourself at all times. If you go back and look at every time he was ko'ed, it's because of this reason.
Jones Jr never fully developed the fundamentals
Holyfields heart was bigger than his brain. Sometimes
Tapia. Demons..RIP champ
Norris lacked discipline and went to war with a thin chin
Zaragoza suffered cuts at just the thought of shaving in the morning
Toney could be a slob and he timed fought ninety seconds of a round
I disagree as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherI disagree with just about every one of theseQuote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
De La Hoya vs Ike Quartay - example of a tough fight he came through in the 12th round - a LOT of grit.
Tyson gave up on his stool only once I think vs Mcbride
Jones Jnr - the "flaw" was part of why he was so good - it just didn't last forever. Not a flaw.
Amir Kahn telegraphs some of his punches, something rotten.
So did Muhammad Ali:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl9_lWENHdc
Ali was a disrespectful prick in and out of the ring!
Ali had a lot of flaws Bill 2.0. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
Brock, Bill, and myself The Three Musketeers. I was hoping you would become the fourth but I can see you are doomed to walk the Dark Path. :( Our thoughts and prayers follow you, it is never too late. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterAli had a lot of flaws Bill 2.0. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
3.0 now. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterAli had a lot of flaws Bill 2.0. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
3 degreesQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust3.0 now. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterAli had a lot of flaws Bill 2.0. ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
I will start with Muhammad Ali because he is supposed to be the greatest even tho at least 4 great heavy weights in history who would have kicked the s*** out of him. First of all as master has stated I don't think I ever saw him throw a body punch. Number 2 Ali was very boring to watch sometimes due to his running around like a chicken and showing off his latest Colombian salsa dance moves and footwork to try to impress the judges with gymnastics. By doing this he knew that it was impossible for other fighters to hit him. So in a way this is just burning the clock and then coming back to fight 30 or 40 seconds of the round and throw a few flicking jabs like a girl and grab behind the head to win the rounds.
That was the Ali in the late 70's not prime and even with all his class he still beat 3 great champions Joe, George and Sonny. The greatest ever!Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Next I will move to another all-time favorite of mine Wladimir Klitschko. I just cannot picture of this gawky awkward looking gun shy octopus getting into an exchange or trading blows where he stays in the pocket and throws three or four or five power punches firing combinations on his opponent. All I can ever picture with this clown is a left or right and then a running away when the opponent gets ready to counter. So what we have here is a big amateur 6 foot 7 inches who can throw a 1/2 and then lean all the way back like a giraffe with his Octopussy arms reaching all the way forward pushing his opponent away while he leans back we are talking about a good six feet of distance that he can suddenly create due to his extreme height and gangly arms. What an absolutely s*** ass boring s*** ass style of fighting that is my criticism of him.
Wlad has the 2nd highest number of defences and that consistantcy takes a lot to achieve and makes him a top heavyweight.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
As far as Muhammad Ali goes he never beat Ken Norton in any of the three matches and he would have lost all three to Frazier if Fraser was able to finish the third fight. In fact if Fraser has gone out for the 15th round ali had just told Dundee to cut his gloves off. Frazier also won their second bout by 3 points according to every single boxing expert in New York New Jersey Connecticut Massachusetts Pennsylvania Delaware and Washington DC.
Ken Norton won all three bouts
Earnie Shavers won his bout against ali. Jimmy young won his bout against Ali. Leon Spinks won both of his bouts against Ali.
Doug Jones beat Olly. The list goes on and on master. They say his best performance was against Cleveland Williams ---the Cleveland Williams just got a f****** kidney removed 7 months before the fight and still has shrapnell near his spine from being shot by several bullets hardly a challenging opponent
If we are going to detract from Rocky Marciano great heavyweight REIGN which lasted from 1952 until 1956 due to the fact that the level of competition at that time was rather mediocre then we have to do the same thing when it comes to Wladimir Klitschko.
Ali shot Cleveland which is a little known fact. So that he would be weakened when they fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Shot him AND fellatioed 'emQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterAli shot Cleveland which is a little known fact. So that he would be weakened when they fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Very disturbing images you have of Ali, that Bill has had a detrimental affect on you.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustShot him AND fellatioed 'emQuote:
Originally Posted by MasterAli shot Cleveland which is a little known fact. So that he would be weakened when they fought.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Golovkin currently seems to take a rest for a round or two after he gets a knock down, this allows him to be hit. Thankfully for him his chin is decent.
Klitschko has 0 inside game, if someone could exploit this and stop him clinching they could beat him.
futch wanted frazier slipping and countering that jab but thats what ali wanted frazier to do to. you throw a jab to create slipping and countering to move a guy into your punches and ali was great at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
http://i.imgur.com/ZySaYg5.gif
frazier countered the right uppercut ali was throwing but because anybody throwing any right uppercut is a sitting duck for a counter left hook in boxing not because ali was throwing it wrong.
http://i.imgur.com/1bDTL7r.gif
ali didnt have the right glove in front of his jaw to parry a counter jab from norton but the disadvantage of always having your right glove stay home to parry jabs is that you cant throw a right hand with it. ali wanted to get you throwing your jab when he would throw a jab because he wanted to come over your counter jab with a counter right hand. cant do that with your right glove staying home in front of your jaw.
http://i.imgur.com/lLE55Yv.gif
i know that everybody cant wait to trash ali on boxing forums to sound like some kind of boxing guru or that you have some kind of monopoly on boxing knowledge and you would think that norton exposed ali but those were really good fights and they fought three times for a reason. it wasnt one way traffic. but i guess its not in style to give ali credit on boxing forums.
http://i.imgur.com/WbbPJgS.gif
http://i.imgur.com/tYE39ZB.gif
i dont know why you guys cant admit ali had some smarts too. thats ignorant and its not fair.
Some good gifs. No need to be a dick though. Monopoly? Really?
We've all been been here a long time and a lot of us would agree that Ali gets a bit of a 'free pass' as far as rating him as the greatest etc.. I wouldn't know about other forums because I'm not on any others but the point you made about Ali's attributes are correct however the video highlights the mindset of the opponent.
Also Gatti landed the hook because that uppercut was poor.
For the most part, Ali was a promoters dream.
A golden goose of entertainment.
In and out of the ring came everything you wanted... Not just a fight, not just one year of success....
.... But a story lasting a few decade that you can enjoy forever more.
Ali wasn't TBE but he is by quite a long distance the most entertaining boxer, most charismatic boxer and the boxer who's story is most entertaining to watch.
Imo which is always right... Sorry guys.
Also the guy who made this video actually got a shout out from Jim Lampley during the Roman Gonzalez fight.
Great work.
your head stays center when you throw a right uppercut. you are always going to be a sitting duck for a left hook when you throw it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimanuel Boogustus
Sometimes I dismiss Camacho like a punchline but also wonder WFT happened? Of everything you could line a list with..chin, fantastic reflex, hand speed and combination punching, footwork all around and ring awareness, could work a ref and oozed fan opinion or reaction one way or the other. He had. Did it all boil down to Rosario making his feet numb off some great hooks and loss of confidence.
Yes it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
Wlad became boring after his KO's.