EU referendum

So the vote will happen at last after David Cameron called a referendum for 23 June.

The prime minister warned that exiting the EU would not stop migrants coming to the UK, as six ministers who attend cabinet joined the leave campaign.

Senior Conservative MP and London mayor Boris Johnson is expected to announce he will campaign for an EU exit.

He is expected to reveal his decision later on Sunday.

Mr Johnson is understood to have told friends he is genuinely conflicted about which way to campaign in the referendum.

But BBC assistant political editor Norman Smith said Mr Johnson had now made up his mind - and would announce which team he would side with this evening.

The prime minister announced the date of the in/out referendum outside Number 10 on Saturday, having returned from Brussels with a deal he argued gave Britain a "special status" within the EU.
He warned leaving the EU would be a "leap in the dark" as he urged voters to back his reform deal.
Renegotiations of the UK's relationship with Europe were finalised on Friday night after intense wrangling at a two-day summit in Brussels.

The agreement, which will take effect immediately if the UK votes to remain in the EU, includes changes to allow curbs on migrant welfare payments, safeguards for Britain's financial services and making it easier to block unwanted EU regulations.

So are you in or out?

Now it's fucking enough, seriously, we need to fuck those off and let them fight for their own country.
I wished we could help them but no we can't. its cost us fucking heaps of money and its fucked up the whole swedish nation and more european countries. We have big big mansions for a lot of immigrants, and thousands of people live in there people who works there got got knifed down, murdered, and no one wants to go there to sort out normal work as things break n stuff. Its now time to send these fuckers off and let them do their own, I rather have people from Africa who really wants to come here and "be" in this society.

Listen to what Cameron said, it is not about immigration.

Yes i hope they shut it down!

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Originally Posted by Xwetie

Yes i hope they shut it down!

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I am against it because it is another bureaucracy and a way for big business to abuse rights of workers.

Out.

If we leave the EU there are some major problems for the working man, the Tory's want to get rid of the human rights act, so it makes it easy for employers to sack there employees there are many other
things, that should be taken into account immigration is a problem at the moment in all the EU, you are better off dealing with it jointly rather than individually.
I would say we are better off in it than out of it.!

Look at norway, they're not in the EU and they're fine...

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Originally Posted by Xwetie

Look at norway, they're not in the EU and they're fine...

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Is that place full of Norwegians.;D

The EU is the only way to even slightly control the Tories. There are some terrible people putting the case for membership, but I think it is important to hold your nose and vote in, because it is likely turnout will be low (on the evidence of the 75 campaign).

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Originally Posted by Britkid

The EU is the only way to even slightly control the Tories. There are some terrible people putting the case for membership, but I think it is important to hold your nose and vote in, because it is likely turnout will be low (on the evidence of the 75 campaign).

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I think defeated Cameron will cause him to resign.

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

The EU is the only way to even slightly control the Tories. There are some terrible people putting the case for membership, but I think it is important to hold your nose and vote in, because it is likely turnout will be low (on the evidence of the 75 campaign).

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I think defeated Cameron will cause him to resign.

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You could be right but HE will only be replaced by one more ass hole, we will lose a lot if we come out
of the EU I don't agree with some of there policy's but the EU are protecting workers rights,

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

The EU is the only way to even slightly control the Tories. There are some terrible people putting the case for membership, but I think it is important to hold your nose and vote in, because it is likely turnout will be low (on the evidence of the 75 campaign).

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I think defeated Cameron will cause him to resign.

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You could be right but HE will only be replaced by one more ass hole, we will lose a lot if we come out
of the EU I don't agree with some of there policy's but the EU are protecting workers rights,

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Multinationals not paying their taxes and Tories eroding union rights tell me different.

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

The EU is the only way to even slightly control the Tories. There are some terrible people putting the case for membership, but I think it is important to hold your nose and vote in, because it is likely turnout will be low (on the evidence of the 75 campaign).

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I think defeated Cameron will cause him to resign.

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You could be right but HE will only be replaced by one more ass hole, we will lose a lot if we come out
of the EU I don't agree with some of there policy's but the EU are protecting workers rights,

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No they are not. All Merkel talks about is "labour market reform", which is a euphemism for cutting wages and pensions, making it easier to lay workers off and so on. The EU is owned by corporations and once they eventually form a full union it'll basically be a corporate superstate. Look at all the corruption that has already been exposed in Brussels. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

If we do stay in we're going to eventually have a common army, immigration policy, budget and government.

ἔξω.

https://www.google.com/search?q=merk...utf-8&oe=utf-8

Try merkel greece labour market reform. Swap spain then portugal for greece etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

The EU is the only way to even slightly control the Tories. There are some terrible people putting the case for membership, but I think it is important to hold your nose and vote in, because it is likely turnout will be low (on the evidence of the 75 campaign).

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I think defeated Cameron will cause him to resign.

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Yes, that is an unsaid given. And it will mean a Johnson or Patel will be in prime position to take over.

Boris is in the no camp, his dad is in the yes one. I hate them all.

Whatever the general consensus is amongst you lot ....... I will do the opposite;D

Notice all the multi nationals and big businesses have come out today to say that the economy will suffer if we leave EU. Just shows you they are scared, will miss out on making millions, not paying their fair share of taxeses and have more zero hour contracts.

Even more reason to stay out of it.

Before every major treaty over the years when they've integrated further they've issued a plan about ten years before the treaty. They've issued a new plan called the Five Presidents Report. It basically goes all the way. Full banking and fiscal union and common institutions like a euro army. The banking and fiscal union means a euro trasury that taxes and spends for the whole of europe and the banking union means the euro central bank issues bonds and all countries share each others' debt. So Greece and Italy's debt is all pooled together with ours and Germany's debt and we're all responsible for it and any future banks going bust in europe.

So if you're voting yes that's what they're aiming for eventually. If they don't get it it's only because the common currency is falling apart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Before every major treaty over the years when they've integrated further they've issued a plan about ten years before the treaty. They've issued a new plan called the Five Presidents Report. It basically goes all the way. Full banking and fiscal union and common institutions like a euro army. The banking and fiscal union means a euro trasury that taxes and spends for the whole of europe and the banking union means the euro central bank issues bonds and all countries share each others' debt. So Greece and Italy's debt is all pooled together with ours and Germany's debt and we're all responsible for it and any future banks going bust in europe.

So if you're voting yes that's what they're aiming for eventually. If they don't get it it's only because the common currency is falling apart.

---

Is that a bad thing though? I think the way forward is greater European unity. It is a way of improving the rights of the working class whilst competing on the world stage. It is far from perfect, but short of revolution and the end Capitalism, to me it is the best way to go.

No way! European Union is all about multinationals and corporations with the bureaucracy keeping it afloat. That is why big business and politicians want it.

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

Centralised power is an unwieldy headache and some are in favour of that on a grander scale? For what? How is it good in the long run? Iceland is a model to aspire to, but the EU is quite the opposite. Undemocratic, unaudited and unnacountable.

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If we are to stay in the Capitalist society, then centralization of power is the way to go. It is the only hope to control the market. As for democracy, that is an abstract concept, too many variants and thus a luxury too far in this form of society. Surely the only 'true' democracy is the Greek form of 'lottery of the people'; where like jury duty every time a governmental post is available, every 'qualified' adult's name is put in a 'hat' and someone is drawn to be take over the post?!

I know nothing about it me soz

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

The smaller the centralised system the more responsive it can be as seen in Iceland who locked up their bankers and changed their system. I don't see an entity like the EU doing that. The EU seems to be run by and for the bankers as seen by the abhorrent treatment of Greece.

Democracy is a state that responds to the will of the people and unfortunately such an entity is getting rarer and rarer. It can never be found in an unelectable, unaudited, centralised system of financialisation though and that applies to a UK outside the EU too.

Now obviously a Tory government away from Europe isn't any different and that is where I think Labour is again wrong. People don't trust Labour on immigration or Europe and so the UK is in a rough place. It reminds me of the Scottish referendum. Stay or else! Feel the fear!

The funny thing is that there was hope in a free Scotland. There is no hope in Europe or out of it when people carry on living in cuckoo ponzi promise land of perpetual Torydom and a Labour Party that should really remember Benn to the letter. There are a lot of Labour supporters that have left because they don't want immigration or the EU. Labour is still cutting its own nose off by staying somewhat neutral. I don't think Corbyn believes in the EU going on his past comments, but here he is saying hold your noses let's stay. It's a chin scratcher.

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What you are rightly (IMO) asking for though is impractical in our current system. You want an Anarcho based civilization built around small collectives doing what is wanted amongst the group. That in the short and medium term is not on the table.

So I would hope people make their decisions based on the realities of the situation in hand:

A realization that technology is 350% more likely to take your job than a migrant.

Closer union with 'strangers' leads to a better understanding of them and thus less conflict.

A more centralized government in a Capitalist society has more chance of controlling the market place.

And the European Union has more chance to compete with Japan, The US and China than the UK as a stand alone state.

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Originally Posted by erics44

I know nothing about it me soz

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Don't worry about it mate, nobody else on here does either ;D

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gandalf

The smaller the centralised system the more responsive it can be as seen in Iceland who locked up their bankers and changed their system. I don't see an entity like the EU doing that. The EU seems to be run by and for the bankers as seen by the abhorrent treatment of Greece.

Democracy is a state that responds to the will of the people and unfortunately such an entity is getting rarer and rarer. It can never be found in an unelectable, unaudited, centralised system of financialisation though and that applies to a UK outside the EU too.

Now obviously a Tory government away from Europe isn't any different and that is where I think Labour is again wrong. People don't trust Labour on immigration or Europe and so the UK is in a rough place. It reminds me of the Scottish referendum. Stay or else! Feel the fear!

The funny thing is that there was hope in a free Scotland. There is no hope in Europe or out of it when people carry on living in cuckoo ponzi promise land of perpetual Torydom and a Labour Party that should really remember Benn to the letter. There are a lot of Labour supporters that have left because they don't want immigration or the EU. Labour is still cutting its own nose off by staying somewhat neutral. I don't think Corbyn believes in the EU going on his past comments, but here he is saying hold your noses let's stay. It's a chin scratcher.

---

What you are rightly (IMO) asking for though is impractical in our current system. You want an Anarcho based civilization built around small collectives doing what is wanted amongst the group. That in the short and medium term is not on the table.

So I would hope people make their decisions based on the realities of the situation in hand:

A realization that technology is 350% more likely to take your job than a migrant.

Closer union with 'strangers' leads to a better understanding of them and thus less conflict.

A more centralized government in a Capitalist society has more chance of controlling the market place.

And the European Union has more chance to compete with Japan, The US and China than the UK as a stand alone state.

---

Try telling that to some of my friends and family that lost there jobs to migrant workers,;) go to our
local industrial estate and the majority of workers are migrant.;) :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

Try telling that to some of my friends and family that lost there jobs to migrant workers,;) go to our
local industrial estate and the majority of workers are migrant.;) :(

---

True it is small comfort if you are that 20% that lose out (as opposed to the 70% who lose their jobs to technology)

Why did they lose their jobs? Was it a cost thing? If it was, it will be EU who make it a more 'equal playing field' long term, not the Eton elite who run the UK...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Before every major treaty over the years when they've integrated further they've issued a plan about ten years before the treaty. They've issued a new plan called the Five Presidents Report. It basically goes all the way. Full banking and fiscal union and common institutions like a euro army. The banking and fiscal union means a euro trasury that taxes and spends for the whole of europe and the banking union means the euro central bank issues bonds and all countries share each others' debt. So Greece and Italy's debt is all pooled together with ours and Germany's debt and we're all responsible for it and any future banks going bust in europe.

So if you're voting yes that's what they're aiming for eventually. If they don't get it it's only because the common currency is falling apart.

---

Is that a bad thing though? I think the way forward is greater European unity. It is a way of improving the rights of the working class whilst competing on the world stage. It is far from perfect, but short of revolution and the end Capitalism, to me it is the best way to go.

---

They're improving the rights of the working class by the euro central bank enforcing policies which slash wages and benefits in the direction of Asian levels and will continue to do so until they get there. They're improving the rights of working class people by allowing uncontrolled immigration from the third world which increases competition for jobs, slashes the pay rates of those europeans who do manage to hold onto their jobs and puts massive pressure on housing costs and school places/access to healthcare etc. While they're letting the immigrants in they're slashing funding for schools, hospitals, social housing etc. All of these things are easier to do with a massive bureaucracy that runs everything and takes away the sovereignty of individual countries to change or stop these things. They also can sign huge trade agreements on behalf of everybody which put european workers in direct competition with Asian workers.

The whole fucking thing is run by big business. You can't rent any office space for several miles near Brussels centre or Strasbourg centre because it's all full of lobbyists buying off EU politicians.

The EU is an absolute undemocratic shambles of corporate servants making money bending over for corporations. It's a fucking organised racket and deserves to be RICOd and the fucking lot of them sent off to a Federal penitentiary.

I'm not even scratching the surface here. Maybe more time next week mate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Before every major treaty over the years when they've integrated further they've issued a plan about ten years before the treaty. They've issued a new plan called the Five Presidents Report. It basically goes all the way. Full banking and fiscal union and common institutions like a euro army. The banking and fiscal union means a euro trasury that taxes and spends for the whole of europe and the banking union means the euro central bank issues bonds and all countries share each others' debt. So Greece and Italy's debt is all pooled together with ours and Germany's debt and we're all responsible for it and any future banks going bust in europe.

So if you're voting yes that's what they're aiming for eventually. If they don't get it it's only because the common currency is falling apart.

---

Is that a bad thing though? I think the way forward is greater European unity. It is a way of improving the rights of the working class whilst competing on the world stage. It is far from perfect, but short of revolution and the end Capitalism, to me it is the best way to go.

---

They're improving the rights of the working class by the euro central bank enforcing policies which slash wages and benefits in the direction of Asian levels and will continue to do so until they get there. They're improving the rights of working class people by allowing uncontrolled immigration from the third world which increases competition for jobs, slashes the pay rates of those europeans who do manage to hold onto their jobs and puts massive pressure on housing costs and school places/access to healthcare etc. While they're letting the immigrants in they're slashing funding for schools, hospitals, social housing etc. All of these things are easier to do with a massive bureaucracy that runs everything and takes away the sovereignty of individual countries to change or stop these things. They also can sign huge trade agreements on behalf of everybody which put european workers in direct competition with Asian workers.

The whole fucking thing is run by big business. You can't rent any office space for several miles near Brussels centre or Strasbourg centre because it's all full of lobbyists buying off EU politicians.

The EU is an absolute undemocratic shambles of corporate servants making money bending over for corporations. It's a fucking organised racket and deserves to be RICOd and the fucking lot of them sent off to a Federal penitentiary.

I'm not even scratching the surface here. Maybe more time next week mate.

---

Migration and democracy... LOL if the problem is hard and complicated blame the migrant, and as for democracy, what is that? What is your interpretation?

If job security is your concern, start smashing up computers and other technologies; as they are three and a half times more likely to cost the average person their job, than a migrant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Before every major treaty over the years when they've integrated further they've issued a plan about ten years before the treaty. They've issued a new plan called the Five Presidents Report. It basically goes all the way. Full banking and fiscal union and common institutions like a euro army. The banking and fiscal union means a euro trasury that taxes and spends for the whole of europe and the banking union means the euro central bank issues bonds and all countries share each others' debt. So Greece and Italy's debt is all pooled together with ours and Germany's debt and we're all responsible for it and any future banks going bust in europe.

So if you're voting yes that's what they're aiming for eventually. If they don't get it it's only because the common currency is falling apart.

---

Is that a bad thing though? I think the way forward is greater European unity. It is a way of improving the rights of the working class whilst competing on the world stage. It is far from perfect, but short of revolution and the end Capitalism, to me it is the best way to go.

---

They're improving the rights of the working class by the euro central bank enforcing policies which slash wages and benefits in the direction of Asian levels and will continue to do so until they get there. They're improving the rights of working class people by allowing uncontrolled immigration from the third world which increases competition for jobs, slashes the pay rates of those europeans who do manage to hold onto their jobs and puts massive pressure on housing costs and school places/access to healthcare etc. While they're letting the immigrants in they're slashing funding for schools, hospitals, social housing etc. All of these things are easier to do with a massive bureaucracy that runs everything and takes away the sovereignty of individual countries to change or stop these things. They also can sign huge trade agreements on behalf of everybody which put european workers in direct competition with Asian workers.

The whole fucking thing is run by big business. You can't rent any office space for several miles near Brussels centre or Strasbourg centre because it's all full of lobbyists buying off EU politicians.

The EU is an absolute undemocratic shambles of corporate servants making money bending over for corporations. It's a fucking organised racket and deserves to be RICOd and the fucking lot of them sent off to a Federal penitentiary.

I'm not even scratching the surface here. Maybe more time next week mate.

---

Migration and democracy... LOL if the problem is hard and complicated blame the migrant, and as for democracy, what is that? What is your interpretation?

If job security is your concern, start smashing up computers and other technologies; as they are three and a half times more likely to cost the average person their job, than a migrant.

---

Well said Britkid

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

Try telling that to some of my friends and family that lost there jobs to migrant workers,;) go to our
local industrial estate and the majority of workers are migrant.;) :(

---

True it is small comfort if you are that 20% that lose out (as opposed to the 70% who lose their jobs to technology)

Why did they lose their jobs? Was it a cost thing? If it was, it will be EU who make it a more 'equal playing field' long term, not the Eton elite who run the UK...

---

Yes a cost thing getting rid of British workers this week,! and replacing them with migrant workers on minimum wage the next, a worrying fact if we leave the EU the Tory's would love it they don't like the human right act the EU implement, with out it the Tory's would make it easier to sack and get rid of employees, which they have stated they would love to do.!
People beware just think long and hard you may think the EU does nothing,! but with out them you may just not have a job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

Try telling that to some of my friends and family that lost there jobs to migrant workers,;) go to our
local industrial estate and the majority of workers are migrant.;) :(

---

True it is small comfort if you are that 20% that lose out (as opposed to the 70% who lose their jobs to technology)

Why did they lose their jobs? Was it a cost thing? If it was, it will be EU who make it a more 'equal playing field' long term, not the Eton elite who run the UK...

---

Yes a cost thing getting rid of British workers this week,! and replacing them with migrant workers on minimum wage the next, a worrying fact if we leave the EU the Tory's would love it they don't like the human right act the EU implement, with out it the Tory's would make it easier to sack and get rid of employees, which they have stated they would love to do.!
People beware just think long and hard you may think the EU does nothing,! but with out them you may just not have a job.

---

The human rights act I nothing more than a abused tool used by corrupt inept lawyers to keep criminals and migrants in the country.
Get out of Europe and lets sort out our own mess.
If you don't like the tories ( of which not many are fans ) vote them out in the next election.

Human Rights Act is not relevant for the Tories. Cameron wants to be in the EU with the act.

My issue is the wasted money in another layer of bureaucracy that is the European Parliament.

Wales has had EU grants which has really helped in poor areas same goes for England and Scotland, if
we are out of the EU were does the investment come from TELL ME PLEASE.?
Remember if you put in you get out lets remember that I can't see were investment will come from only
the EU.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

Wales has had EU grants which has really helped in poor areas same goes for England and Scotland, if
we are out of the EU were does the investment come from TELL ME PLEASE.?
Remember if you put in you get out lets remember that I can't see were investment will come from only
the EU.

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Do not look to EU for investment that is for your parliament to do it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Master

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

Wales has had EU grants which has really helped in poor areas same goes for England and Scotland, if
we are out of the EU were does the investment come from TELL ME PLEASE.?
Remember if you put in you get out lets remember that I can't see were investment will come from only
the EU.

---

Do not look to EU for investment that is for your parliament to do it.

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Who do you think will invest THE BANKS.:lolhaha:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Britkid

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

Before every major treaty over the years when they've integrated further they've issued a plan about ten years before the treaty. They've issued a new plan called the Five Presidents Report. It basically goes all the way. Full banking and fiscal union and common institutions like a euro army. The banking and fiscal union means a euro trasury that taxes and spends for the whole of europe and the banking union means the euro central bank issues bonds and all countries share each others' debt. So Greece and Italy's debt is all pooled together with ours and Germany's debt and we're all responsible for it and any future banks going bust in europe.

So if you're voting yes that's what they're aiming for eventually. If they don't get it it's only because the common currency is falling apart.

---

Is that a bad thing though? I think the way forward is greater European unity. It is a way of improving the rights of the working class whilst competing on the world stage. It is far from perfect, but short of revolution and the end Capitalism, to me it is the best way to go.

---

They're improving the rights of the working class by the euro central bank enforcing policies which slash wages and benefits in the direction of Asian levels and will continue to do so until they get there. They're improving the rights of working class people by allowing uncontrolled immigration from the third world which increases competition for jobs, slashes the pay rates of those europeans who do manage to hold onto their jobs and puts massive pressure on housing costs and school places/access to healthcare etc. While they're letting the immigrants in they're slashing funding for schools, hospitals, social housing etc. All of these things are easier to do with a massive bureaucracy that runs everything and takes away the sovereignty of individual countries to change or stop these things. They also can sign huge trade agreements on behalf of everybody which put european workers in direct competition with Asian workers.

The whole fucking thing is run by big business. You can't rent any office space for several miles near Brussels centre or Strasbourg centre because it's all full of lobbyists buying off EU politicians.

The EU is an absolute undemocratic shambles of corporate servants making money bending over for corporations. It's a fucking organised racket and deserves to be RICOd and the fucking lot of them sent off to a Federal penitentiary.

I'm not even scratching the surface here. Maybe more time next week mate.

---

Migration and democracy... LOL if the problem is hard and complicated blame the migrant, and as for democracy, what is that? What is your interpretation?

If job security is your concern, start smashing up computers and other technologies; as they are three and a half times more likely to cost the average person their job, than a migrant.

---

What's your interpretation? A situation where polls show immigration is by far the biggest concern of the British population but all the parties have a lockstep refusal to have a policy that the majority of British people want?

You'd rather be run by a bunch of anti-democratic petty criminals who refuse to accept the democratic wishes of various european countries, have ignored the results of anti-EU votes in Denmark, France, Greece, Ireland and other countries and pressed on with their agenda regardless.

Regardless of how technology affects future employment the main thing affecting it now is supply and demand. Even those not affected by losing their job or being unable to get a new one see their wages cut due to the massive oversupply on the market.

Are you a graduate? You got a graduate-level job and have moved up the employment ladder from that point? Working in a major city?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

Wales has had EU grants which has really helped in poor areas same goes for England and Scotland, if
we are out of the EU were does the investment come from TELL ME PLEASE.?
Remember if you put in you get out lets remember that I can't see were investment will come from only
the EU.

---

Britain is a massive net contributor to the EU. All those EU grants you get in Wales are British money. However much more British money goes on EU grants for countries like Romania and Hungary. If we weren't in we'd have even more money to give out in grants to actual British people.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing

What's your interpretation? A situation where polls show immigration is by far the biggest concern of the British population but all the parties have a lockstep refusal to have a policy that the majority of British people want?

You'd rather be run by a bunch of anti-democratic petty criminals who refuse to accept the democratic wishes of various european countries, have ignored the results of anti-EU votes in Denmark, France, Greece, Ireland and other countries and pressed on with their agenda regardless.

Regardless of how technology affects future employment the main thing affecting it now is supply and demand. Even those not affected by losing their job or being unable to get a new one see their wages cut due to the massive oversupply on the market.

Are you a graduate? You got a graduate-level job and have moved up the employment ladder from that point? Working in a major city?

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What polls show migration as the number one concern? I have not seen a 'mainstream' one.

The majority having an opinion does not mean it should always be acted on if we want to live in 'civilization'.

You keep using democracy without putting a value on it, it is an abstract concept, a cliche even without
being quantified. It should be noted European elections are the only elections that the UK uses PR for...

Supply and demand is dictated a lot more by technological advances than population. Is using fear of strangers the main reason people want to leave?! That to me seems a very weak and flawed argument...