AJ
Haye
Wilder
Provetkin
Fury
Ortiz
Pulev
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AJ
Haye
Wilder
Provetkin
Fury
Ortiz
Pulev
Ha ha, easily pleased? 😉
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Norton
Bugner
Ellis
Lyle
Young
Shavers
And they all ACTUALLY fought each other.
Then of Course was there anything more exciting than the emergence of Mike Tyson.
Ali - over rated
Frazier - too small
Foreman
Holmes
Norton - massively over rated
Bugner - ?
Ellis - id beat him
Lyle - ?
Young
Shavers - just a punch
yes the emergence of Tyson was exciting, I loved it
doesn't mean his era was better tho
;D;D;D Mate, you must've come back from Sri Lanka all refreshed and ready for a wind up! I can't get worked up over this, just to say that your "Over rated" Ali would beat all of today's "exciting" Crop.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Ali struggled past an American footballer, and a number of journeymenQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera;D;D;D Mate, you must've come back from Sri Lanka all refreshed and ready for a wind up! I can't get worked up over this, just to say that your "Over rated" Ali would beat all of today's "exciting" Crop.;)Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
he deserves his place at the top of the sport but was he really that good? was he fuck
I'm not one to blow sunshine up Ali's ass , there are some minor anomalies about his status, but the fact remains that he KO'd a beast in Foreman in his prime, who then became a World Champ 20 odd years after his peak.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
yeah he was quality, and what he gave boxing outside the ring was unmatchable, will never happen again, but in the ring? the best ever? nar
Norton, Lyle, Elis and even frazier will be so fondly remembered because they were in the same era as Ali, and because of Ali's mouth
That may be true of Lyle and Ellis to a degree, although they more than match up to some of your current batch. Norton and Frazier both beat Ali , so they would be remembered in their own right.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
yeah he was quality, and what he gave boxing outside the ring was unmatchable, will never happen again, but in the ring? the best ever? nar
Norton, Lyle, Elis and even frazier will be so fondly remembered because they were in the same era as Ali, and because of Ali's mouth
I'm not saying Ali is the best ever, but in this current era, he would sure as fuck look like it.
no he wouldn't
even fury would beat him
and Norton and frazier did both beat ali, but was ali that good?
the Forman fight was unbelievable, alis best win by miles and miles
I think Forman was right up against it tho, im not sure many fighters would have performed to their best in the situation he was in
id like to know what kind of understanding there was of media / pressure cooker events back then, did people really understand as they do now, and could forman actually have been helped prepare mentally as he could have been now
Not when we have to watch Wlad-Fury II.
Wait a minute, did you just say Tyson Fury would beat Muhammad Ali? That's it , I'm done! 😂😂😂Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Comical ;D
Feed that f*cker! :p
Seriously Eric, I think you have a point. Tyson Fury probably would beat Ali , although it would be close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWait a minute, did you just say Tyson Fury would beat Muhammad Ali? That's it , I'm done! 😂😂😂Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Mind you, Ali is 74 and not in the best of health. 😂😂😂😂
:) that one was for @rossQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWait a minute, did you just say Tyson Fury would beat Muhammad Ali? That's it , I'm done! 😂😂😂Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
good point well madeQuote:
Originally Posted by Munkymagic
If you're a Brit it should be looking very good/exiciting.
there we go, a man with senseQuote:
Originally Posted by beenKOed
I dribble at all those brits who are bringing up Ali
Made me chuckle. 😄Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44:) that one was for @rossQuote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWait a minute, did you just say Tyson Fury would beat Muhammad Ali? That's it , I'm done! 😂😂😂Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Ali over rated ? Based on what ?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
based on him being considered unconditionally the best heavyweight that ever walked the planet by miles and whenever anyone is questioned about his standing in the current crop, he would dispatch any of these giants that are around today with easeQuote:
Originally Posted by denilson200Ali over rated ? Based on what ?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
the most over rated fighter in history, and probably always will be
Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease. We have gone from 1 man dominating the division but unwatchable to a collection of wannabe's half his size and the division fragmented. I think the fights are going to be much more fan friendly if all the pretenders fight but its a quantity vs quality thing. It’s more then probable that this division will start to look like just about all the others. Stagnant. I see that Briggs has now been added to the Haye undercard so I guess we all know what that means. Funny thing is, it’s probably the fight of the division. The potential is certainly there to be a good era with the present cast of characters but based on how this market operates and even with the chance to bring this division out of the ashes like a phoenix it will most likely fall asleep at the wheel committing divisional suicide in the process.
ha, immense
but ill gladly accept your bait
quantity v quality?
we have gone from 1 dominating, this is when the quality was?
and since then there is no quality?
if I understand you correctly, Wlad is a higher quality than the names mention in the op?
It’s by in large the same group of fighters acting the same way. The only difference is now they have access to belts they couldn’t get before because of Wlad. The moment Fury won the fight, the powers at be stripped him and started to threaten him. Why didn’t they do that with Wlad? I didn’t say there was none of anything. I said its a measure of quality over quantity. It’s going to look better that’s for sure IF these people fight. And Wlads not even out of the picture. He could beat Fury. The what? We hope he retires. Time will tell and I didn’t say Wlads quality was better or that he was. These guys for the most part could not solve the puzzle in 11 years. So if we are going to talk about quality….Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
This division has an opportunity to right itself but I got this feeling because of what’s happening elsewhere that all we are going to see is a pose off.
British heavyweight is exciting with Fury, AJ and Haye.
The overall standard is not as high as 70's or 90's but that is not a criticism.
Fine, I will take the baitQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Haye- good talent, hasn't accomplished much in his career
Wilder- good punch, very raw and will never be great
Provetkin- just not good
Fury- he's decent, that's about all
Ortiz- seems like another lazy cuban
Pulev- seriously?
Even if you discredit Ali's era, the mid to late 90's was certainly better?
Lennox
Evander
Bowe
Tyson
Golota
Ruddock
Bruno
Tua
Ike
Mercer
Briggs
Moorer
Morrison
Every single one of those guys, were they coming up now, would have people talking, and I'm sure I'm forgetting a few contenders.
one of those fighters took the belts off wlad, so they could have accessed the belts at any time during the last 10 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitIt’s by in large the same group of fighters acting the same way. The only difference is now they have access to belts they couldn’t get before because of Wlad. The moment Fury won the fight, the powers at be stripped him and started to threaten him. Why didn’t they do that with Wlad? I didn’t say there was none of anything. I said its a measure of quality over quantity. It’s going to look better that’s for sure IF these people fight. And Wlads not even out of the picture. He could beat Fury. The what? We hope he retires. Time will tell and I didn’t say Wlads quality was better or that he was. These guys for the most part could not solve the puzzle in 11 years. So if we are going to talk about quality….Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
This division has an opportunity to right itself but I got this feeling because of what’s happening elsewhere that all we are going to see is a pose off.
and wlad was at his best when that happened, he was coming off a couple of his best ever wins
wlad was shit, held more than he punched and got all the favours in the world when he fought, he generated so much money in Germany he could get away with so much in the ring, they did anything to keep him champion
so in my opinion the quality is much higher now than it has been at any time in the last 10 years, the only fighter that can really argue is Vitali
I really Liked Holyfeild and Lennox so the 1990's were pretty great i mean if looking at eras there is the 1970's and the 1990's and thats about the only stacked hw eras. I will still watch the hw because i always find it more exciting when people are fighting for hw crown.
If Vitali wasn't Wlad's big brother we wouldn't have gone through years of shitness.
And my point is that it appears more competitive because there is no Wlad. Good or bad nobody could solve the puzzle. Yes Fury did but lets put that fight where it belongs. It had the worst punch output in heavyweight championship history and Wlad looked like a deer in the headlights until the 12th round. Good for Fury but everyone saw what happened. Yes there is some new blood in Fury and Joshua and Ortiz but the overall quality is the same as it was. Shite. And when you add the protectionist fervor to the mix well it speaks for itself. The Wba has to do its own tourney to figure out who its real champion is.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44one of those fighters took the belts off wlad, so they could have accessed the belts at any time during the last 10 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitIt’s by in large the same group of fighters acting the same way. The only difference is now they have access to belts they couldn’t get before because of Wlad. The moment Fury won the fight, the powers at be stripped him and started to threaten him. Why didn’t they do that with Wlad? I didn’t say there was none of anything. I said its a measure of quality over quantity. It’s going to look better that’s for sure IF these people fight. And Wlads not even out of the picture. He could beat Fury. The what? We hope he retires. Time will tell and I didn’t say Wlads quality was better or that he was. These guys for the most part could not solve the puzzle in 11 years. So if we are going to talk about quality….Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
This division has an opportunity to right itself but I got this feeling because of what’s happening elsewhere that all we are going to see is a pose off.
and wlad was at his best when that happened, he was coming off a couple of his best ever wins
wlad was shit, held more than he punched and got all the favours in the world when he fought, he generated so much money in Germany he could get away with so much in the ring, they did anything to keep him champion
so in my opinion the quality is much higher now than it has been at any time in the last 10 years, the only fighter that can really argue is Vitali
The potential is there with that group and add Ortiz but if I was a betting man I bet we don’t see any of them fighting each other. Fury would likely be the most willing of all the participants. You don’t need to risk anything. Look at Wilder. The system is set up to function on mediocrity. These kats can become millionaires and never fight a threat while calling themselves world champions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Totally agree and you know nobody today would make the grade if they had to scrap that lot. I doubt anyone from the seventies makes it through either.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
fury solved the puzzle against wlad when wlad had just come off 2 of his best 4 ever wins, so you'd have to argue it was wlads peak in terms of resultsQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitAnd my point is that it appears more competitive because there is no Wlad. Good or bad nobody could solve the puzzle. Yes Fury did but lets put that fight where it belongs. It had the worst punch output in heavyweight championship history and Wlad looked like a deer in the headlights until the 12th round. Good for Fury but everyone saw what happened. Yes there is some new blood in Fury and Joshua and Ortiz but the overall quality is the same as it was. Shite. And when you add the protectionist fervor to the mix well it speaks for itself. The Wba has to do its own tourney to figure out who its real champion is.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44one of those fighters took the belts off wlad, so they could have accessed the belts at any time during the last 10 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitIt’s by in large the same group of fighters acting the same way. The only difference is now they have access to belts they couldn’t get before because of Wlad. The moment Fury won the fight, the powers at be stripped him and started to threaten him. Why didn’t they do that with Wlad? I didn’t say there was none of anything. I said its a measure of quality over quantity. It’s going to look better that’s for sure IF these people fight. And Wlads not even out of the picture. He could beat Fury. The what? We hope he retires. Time will tell and I didn’t say Wlads quality was better or that he was. These guys for the most part could not solve the puzzle in 11 years. So if we are going to talk about quality….Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
This division has an opportunity to right itself but I got this feeling because of what’s happening elsewhere that all we are going to see is a pose off.
and wlad was at his best when that happened, he was coming off a couple of his best ever wins
wlad was shit, held more than he punched and got all the favours in the world when he fought, he generated so much money in Germany he could get away with so much in the ring, they did anything to keep him champion
so in my opinion the quality is much higher now than it has been at any time in the last 10 years, the only fighter that can really argue is Vitali
that suggests that the quality is there today
for 10 years it was wlad and vitali that's it, now we have a few quality heavyweights, one of which is better than wlad at his peak
and punch output is irrelevant
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44fury solved the puzzle against wlad when wlad had just come off 2 of his best 4 ever wins, so you'd have to argue it was wlads peak in terms of resultsQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitAnd my point is that it appears more competitive because there is no Wlad. Good or bad nobody could solve the puzzle. Yes Fury did but lets put that fight where it belongs. It had the worst punch output in heavyweight championship history and Wlad looked like a deer in the headlights until the 12th round. Good for Fury but everyone saw what happened. Yes there is some new blood in Fury and Joshua and Ortiz but the overall quality is the same as it was. Shite. And when you add the protectionist fervor to the mix well it speaks for itself. The Wba has to do its own tourney to figure out who its real champion is.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44one of those fighters took the belts off wlad, so they could have accessed the belts at any time during the last 10 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by IamInuitIt’s by in large the same group of fighters acting the same way. The only difference is now they have access to belts they couldn’t get before because of Wlad. The moment Fury won the fight, the powers at be stripped him and started to threaten him. Why didn’t they do that with Wlad? I didn’t say there was none of anything. I said its a measure of quality over quantity. It’s going to look better that’s for sure IF these people fight. And Wlads not even out of the picture. He could beat Fury. The what? We hope he retires. Time will tell and I didn’t say Wlads quality was better or that he was. These guys for the most part could not solve the puzzle in 11 years. So if we are going to talk about quality….Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
This division has an opportunity to right itself but I got this feeling because of what’s happening elsewhere that all we are going to see is a pose off.
and wlad was at his best when that happened, he was coming off a couple of his best ever wins
wlad was shit, held more than he punched and got all the favours in the world when he fought, he generated so much money in Germany he could get away with so much in the ring, they did anything to keep him champion
so in my opinion the quality is much higher now than it has been at any time in the last 10 years, the only fighter that can really argue is Vitali
that suggests that the quality is there today
for 10 years it was wlad and vitali that's it, now we have a few quality heavyweights, one of which is better than wlad at his peak
and punch output is irrelevant
Why are you splitting hairs for when your responses are making my point?
You are suggesting that wlads era was better than this because of wlad
I'm suggesting that that's not the case, not least because at least one heavyweight is better than wlad at his peak
our opinions seem different to me?
Floyd Mayweather does the same, he throws more effective punches per round than his opponent. He is boring for it.
Floyd is different from wlad
wlad holds more than he punches, Floyd punches more than he holds
Floyd is boring but legitimate
He is a legitimate dick.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Wlad is legitimate because he has unified belts, beaten the best challengers and record number of defences.