We finally have some deserving people on boxing's p4p list

For the past however many years, I had the hardest time trying to make a p4p list because hardly anyone seemed like they were very deserving. I felt like it was basically mayweather and pac with JMM and Ward (not during his off years) that deserved a spot. I always felt weird putting fighters like Bradley or cotto up so high. This isn't because they weren't good fighters but because they seemed like they weren't the talent of a top 5 fighter. We may not have a superstar anymore, but we have some talent depth finally.

We have Gonzales, GGG, kovalev, Ward, pac, Crawford, and rigo (although his career is in a slump) who are all very deserving of a spot. Then you have a lower tier of the bottom of the list for people like Canelo, Santa Cruz, Loma, a group of welters, along with some other fighters.

Before I felt like I had to really stretch my list to people who i thought weren't deserving, but now I feel like I have to keep off a few people who may deserve to be there.

So although there are still problems in boxing, at least we have some talent depth unlike we used to.

Least Tim Bradley is finally off there.

Actually think Tyson Fury is more deserving of the number 10 spot than Kell Brook. Not sure how a close win over Shawn Porter and a boat load of ridiculously poor mandatory blow outs constitutes a top 10 place. Fury beat the undisputed Heavyweight Champion in his back yard, and beat him well, even with a bull shit point deduction.

Still wary about Golovkin being so high based on him fighting B- level fighters. Even Kovalev actually. I'd probably have Crawford above those two and maybe even Ward despite him not being very active. He is still unbeaten, is finally back and has beaten better competition than Kovalev and GGG.

Ono, I tend to agree.

I actually looked at The Rings list last night and thought it was a f'n joke.

I think Canelo being number 7 or whatever is laughable, he's hiding from 2 divisions he can't rise to the top of either. But he's ranked far higher than the guys he hides from(except GGG)

GGG refuses to fight Ward for years, Ward has a FAR greater resume but GGG is above him? That makes no sense. Kovalev above Ward makes no sense. If Kovalev beats him after Ward moved up, then Kovalev should be above him but not until then. Neither GGG or Kovalev have proven nearly as much. It is after all about who you fight.

Speaking of which, like Ono said. Brook has no business on a P4P list with his abysmal list of opponents. Does he have the talent, quite possibly, but sneaking by Porter does not make you anywhere near P4P and his shitty opponents since being champ should hurt his standing not help it.

how can GGG have been avoiding ward when they fight at different weights?

ward hasn't fought for years and look who has fought when he has come back

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Ono, I tend to agree.

I actually looked at The Rings list last night and thought it was a f'n joke.

I think Canelo being number 7 or whatever is laughable, he's hiding from 2 divisions he can't rise to the top of either. But he's ranked far higher than the guys he hides from(except GGG)

GGG refuses to fight Ward for years, Ward has a FAR greater resume but GGG is above him? That makes no sense. Kovalev above Ward makes no sense. If Kovalev beats him after Ward moved up, then Kovalev should be above him but not until then. Neither GGG or Kovalev have proven nearly as much. It is after all about who you fight.

Speaking of which, like Ono said. Brook has no business on a P4P list with his abysmal list of opponents. Does he have the talent, quite possibly, but sneaking by Porter does not make you anywhere near P4P and his shitty opponents since being champ should hurt his standing not help it.

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Agree with everything you've said here. GGG, Brook and Kovalev are all talented, and GGG and Kovalev may even be a level or so above Kell, but their overall level of opponent isn't all that different. The only difference is the manor in which they have been dispatched. I don't see Kovalev beating Ward if and when they do finally meet, and it's difficult to give GGG a huge amount of credibility while he is still fighting B- level opposition whilst using his promoter to call out guys as light as Kell Brook.

The other thing that does annoy me is the lack of a Tyson Fury. Not because i believe he should be on there, because he probably shouldn't - based on ability and talent (being real, he'd be nowhere near). It annoys me because most ranking organisations had Wlad in the top 3-5. A victory over him in his own back yard should propel you into the top 10 - fair is fair.

I have made my own opinion clear about Wlad and why he should never be ranked in the top echelons of a p4p ranking system in the past and my argument has always based on my belief that if Wlad was the same exact size and weight as everybody else in the world, he wouldn't clock the top 100, and seeing how he struggled to do anything against Fury (a fighter of similar size/reach etc) i am perfectly happy with assumption ;D

But getting back to my point, if Wlad was in the top 3-5 beforehand in the Rings p4p rankings, they should have the decency to have him in the top 10 at the very least. A win over a supposed A+ level fighter (regardless of the era) should probably rank higher than a cluster of wins over B-/C+ level cannon fodder. So in conclusion, i think the rankings are a load of shite haha.

Golovkin is the most blatantly ducked fighter of this modern era. Hopefully Khan beats Canelo as he's probably stupid enough to fight him.

Tyson Fury P4P? All one hit wonders should be instantly ranked P4P then

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Golovkin is the most blatantly ducked fighter of this modern era. Hopefully Khan beats Canelo as he's probably stupid enough to fight him.

Tyson Fury P4P? All one hit wonders should be instantly ranked P4P then

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If Fury wins again then he needs to be top 5.

After much deliberation, staff at the BBC Sport website have come up with their top 10 British fighters, pound-for-pound.

Ignoring weight, this subjective list takes into account fighters' recent results, their skills, resilience and punching power.

The list will be updated periodically and should be treated as a talking point.

1. Kell Brook - Welterweight

Sheffield (36-0, 25KOs)

British fans wanted Brook to fight compatriot Amir Khan. However, Khan opted for Saul Alvarez instead and Brook defended his IBF title with an early stoppage of unheralded Kevin Bizier.

2. Carl Frampton - Super-bantamweight

Belfast (22-0, 14KOs)

Having outboxed arch rival Scott Quigg to unify the super-bantamweight division, Frampton is set to move up to fight Mexican Leo Santa Cruz for the WBA featherweight title this summer.

3. Amir Khan - Light-welterweight

Bolton (31-3, 19KOs)

Khan caused a major surprise when he announced he was jumping two weight divisions to fight Mexico's Saul Alvarez in May. It is a massive task for Khan but he is banking on his speed to prevail.

4. Tyson Fury - Heavyweight

Manchester (25-0, 18KOs)

Fury shocked the boxing world by bringing Wladimir Klitschko's nine-year reign as world heavyweight champion to an end in Dusseldorf. Fury and Klitschko are set to do it all again in July.

5. James DeGale - Super-middleweight

London (22-1, 14KOs)

DeGale says he wants a unification fight against Sweden's WBC champion Badou Jack. However, first is a mandatory defence of his IBF title against Mexican Rogelio Medina in April.

6. Lee Selby - Featherweight

Barry (22-1, 8KOs)

Selby put a scrappy defence against Fernando Montiel behind him with a stylish victory over American Eric Hunter. 'The Welsh Mayweather' remains on a collision course with Leeds' Josh Warrington.

7. Scott Quigg - Super-bantamweight

Bury (31-1-2, 23KOs)

Quigg turned up six rounds too late against Carl Frampton and lost his WBA belt. Having broken his jaw in the shattering defeat, Quigg will now have some well-earned time off.

8. Jamie McDonnell - Bantamweight

Doncaster (28-2-1, 13KOs)

The tough Yorkshireman stopped Mexico's Fernando Vargas in April and could now fight his fellow WBA title-holder Juan Carlos Payano, an undefeated southpaw from the Dominican Republic.

9. Billy Joe Saunders - Middleweight

Hatfield (23-0, 12 KOs)

Saunders was impressive in dethroning Ireland's WBO champion Andy Lee and he will make the first defence of his title against Ukraine's Max Bursak in April. After that, a rematch with Chris Eubank Jr?

10. Terry Flanagan - Lightweight

Manchester (30-0, 12KOs)

Flanagan defended his WBO belt with a hard-fought victory over Derry Mathews in March. A unification match against WBA champion and fellow Mancunian Anthony Crolla is a mouth-watering prospect.

BBC pound-for-pound British rankings - BBC Sport

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Originally Posted by Master

After much deliberation, staff at the BBC Sport website have come up with their top 10 British fighters, pound-for-pound.

Ignoring weight, this subjective list takes into account fighters' recent results, their skills, resilience and punching power.

The list will be updated periodically and should be treated as a talking point.

1. Kell Brook - Welterweight

Sheffield (36-0, 25KOs)

British fans wanted Brook to fight compatriot Amir Khan. However, Khan opted for Saul Alvarez instead and Brook defended his IBF title with an early stoppage of unheralded Kevin Bizier.

2. Carl Frampton - Super-bantamweight

Belfast (22-0, 14KOs)

Having outboxed arch rival Scott Quigg to unify the super-bantamweight division, Frampton is set to move up to fight Mexican Leo Santa Cruz for the WBA featherweight title this summer.

3. Amir Khan - Light-welterweight

Bolton (31-3, 19KOs)

Khan caused a major surprise when he announced he was jumping two weight divisions to fight Mexico's Saul Alvarez in May. It is a massive task for Khan but he is banking on his speed to prevail.

4. Tyson Fury - Heavyweight

Manchester (25-0, 18KOs)

Fury shocked the boxing world by bringing Wladimir Klitschko's nine-year reign as world heavyweight champion to an end in Dusseldorf. Fury and Klitschko are set to do it all again in July.

5. James DeGale - Super-middleweight

London (22-1, 14KOs)

DeGale says he wants a unification fight against Sweden's WBC champion Badou Jack. However, first is a mandatory defence of his IBF title against Mexican Rogelio Medina in April.

6. Lee Selby - Featherweight

Barry (22-1, 8KOs)

Selby put a scrappy defence against Fernando Montiel behind him with a stylish victory over American Eric Hunter. 'The Welsh Mayweather' remains on a collision course with Leeds' Josh Warrington.

7. Scott Quigg - Super-bantamweight

Bury (31-1-2, 23KOs)

Quigg turned up six rounds too late against Carl Frampton and lost his WBA belt. Having broken his jaw in the shattering defeat, Quigg will now have some well-earned time off.

8. Jamie McDonnell - Bantamweight

Doncaster (28-2-1, 13KOs)

The tough Yorkshireman stopped Mexico's Fernando Vargas in April and could now fight his fellow WBA title-holder Juan Carlos Payano, an undefeated southpaw from the Dominican Republic.

9. Billy Joe Saunders - Middleweight

Hatfield (23-0, 12 KOs)

Saunders was impressive in dethroning Ireland's WBO champion Andy Lee and he will make the first defence of his title against Ukraine's Max Bursak in April. After that, a rematch with Chris Eubank Jr?

10. Terry Flanagan - Lightweight

Manchester (30-0, 12KOs)

Flanagan defended his WBO belt with a hard-fought victory over Derry Mathews in March. A unification match against WBA champion and fellow Mancunian Anthony Crolla is a mouth-watering prospect.

BBC pound-for-pound British rankings - BBC Sport

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Ha ha. Good old Beeb. Amir Khan not even in the top 5 of any division he chooses to fight in and he's ranked above someone like Fury , who tbf beat a World top 3 p4p allegedly and other World Champions . What a fucking joke.
Mind you, p4p lists are a joke anyway!

Now I know why I haven't had a P4P list in quite sometime:I stopped kidding myself.:-\

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Originally Posted by Fenster

Golovkin is the most blatantly ducked fighter of this modern era. Hopefully Khan beats Canelo as he's probably stupid enough to fight him.

Tyson Fury P4P? All one hit wonders should be instantly ranked P4P then

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It's not a one hit wonder though is it? He's an unbeaten fighter who comfortably outpointed a ridiculously dominant champion, who The Ring previously had at 5 or 6 p4p iirc, in his own back yard. Surely that puts him higher than Kell Brook? It's not as though he swung for the hills and caught him cold. He befuddled him for 12 rounds.

For the record, I'm not fussed about him being in the top 10, just think he's more deserving of the spot than Brook. And agreed on Khan, his delusion will soar if he is competitive against Canelo, and given Golovkin's apparent openness to fighting Brook, he would go for it. ;D

I don't even think heavyweights should be on P4P lists as Fury could literally kill all the men below him.

But even so, skill and ability has to be taken into account. Has Chocolatito or Golovkin beat a bigger name than Wlad? No. Is there any serious boxing fans that watch Fury and believe he is "P4P" a superior boxer than those two? Of course not unless you're borderline insane.

Tell the truth - you're really unhappy that Brook is rated above Khan. And for the record - Brook will put him to kip if they fight. :D

The P4P lists I've made doesn't always factor in skill.

The will to win has no scale to measure. Guys like Marcos Maidana to James Kirkland while on their terror spree were better than the current 5-10 ranked fighters today.

A 35-0 Aaron Pryor would make my P4P list today, but the truth is Pryor at times was wreckless, frequently threw off balance. But he won, chasing and calling out guys like Ray Leonard never given a chance other than the Explosive thin man.

I'd say the most talented and skilled fighters today do so much haggling, catchweight fighting that it diminishes their accolades making them unworthy to crack my list.

Did Gonzalez really look like the #1 p4p fighter in the world last time out? I was surprised how many shots he took late and never caught a second wind. Alvarez doesn't belong on a p4p list, really think that's more to do with a marketing sales tag and even GB promotion.

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Did Gonzalez really look like the #1 p4p fighter in the world last time out? I was surprised how many shots he took late and never caught a second wind. Alvarez doesn't belong on a p4p list, really think that's more to do with a marketing sales tag and even GB promotion.

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Well alvarez does have wins over Lara, trout, cotto and kirkland all within recent memory, that is pretty high level of competition. Cotto is past his best but I would think he could still beat a lot of top contenders at the new weird 155 weight class :S, in my opinion Trout and lara are two very good boxers and errr Kirkland is Kirkland I guess he's nothing special but it's still a nice win... I am certainly no boxing expert and I don't really give much thought to p4p lists but I would say alvarez and his run of opponents puts him in the discussion for a top ten place.....

I concur about Gonazalezs last performance, I like him and think he is really great but after watching that fight and hearing he is moving up in weight fairly soon, I think a defeat is near for him, he will not make it to 50-0. It looked to me like his offence is based around being able to overwhelm the opponent, and I would think once he moves up the missed power shots and shots he takes will add up on him more and he will struggle and eventually lose..

so errr in conclusion i really have no idea what i am talking about, i completely the forgot the point of the post .

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Originally Posted by palmerq

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Did Gonzalez really look like the #1 p4p fighter in the world last time out? I was surprised how many shots he took late and never caught a second wind. Alvarez doesn't belong on a p4p list, really think that's more to do with a marketing sales tag and even GB promotion.

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Well alvarez does have wins over Lara, trout, cotto and kirkland all within recent memory, that is pretty high level of competition. Cotto is past his best but I would think he could still beat a lot of top contenders at the new weird 155 weight class :S, in my opinion Trout and lara are two very good boxers and errr Kirkland is Kirkland I guess he's nothing special but it's still a nice win... I am certainly no boxing expert and I don't really give much thought to p4p lists but I would say alvarez and his run of opponents puts him in the discussion for a top ten place.....

I concur about Gonazalezs last performance, I like him and think he is really great but after watching that fight and hearing he is moving up in weight fairly soon, I think a defeat is near for him, he will not make it to 50-0. It looked to me like his offence is based around being able to overwhelm the opponent, and I would think once he moves up the missed power shots and shots he takes will add up on him more and he will struggle and eventually lose..

so errr in conclusion i really have no idea what i am talking about, i completely the forgot the point of the post .

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I liked the Cotto win. Regardless of catchweight and two non middles fighting for THE title, it was a solid fight for Alvarez. Full respect. Now the Trout fight was ok but personally I think we saw a lot of the soon to be revealed limitations of Alvarez there vs say a Mayweather or a Lara when facing a near pure boxer type. He needed to show that boxer-puncher pressure pay off with a poor mans blueprint in Trout and what he did instead was coast at end. I'm still not convinced the Lara 'w' was all that spectacular or even clear. Call me nuts but I think Maidana 1 and Guerrero won more legit rounds vs Mayweather than Canelo. Kirkland was there to make Canelo look like a destroyer and his capable boxing just let him literally run into punches after initial burst. Same for Angulo where it was laughable that Canelo needed to "adjust" contract with added weight just 24 hrs prior to bell vs a guy Lara had just beat to the point of having a second forehead. Dude is a decent boxer and not saying he is without talent, but if this supposed all star has a second gear I have yet to see it. Smashing a bloated welter tomorrow night won't help the cause.

We are currently at a time when the P4P debate is wide open. A clear P4P #1 is not so easy to define in my opinion. By my rough of the top count you could make an argument for at least 6 - 7 guys being able to make a case as the #1 guy.

In no particular order:
Loma
Crawford
Usyk
GGG
Mikey
Inoue
Wangek

There are others to like Spence for example who could be only 1 big win away from ending that bracket.

I agree that Spence is a big fight away from being in the discussion for #1. Also, Kovalev is still a live dog. People have short memories. By most scoring the fight, he beat Ward the first fight. He had an embarrassing loss the second fight. He has still shown since that loss to be a great fighter. I have always and still do rate him higher than GGG. If he fights Bivol soon and beats him, he is for sure in the discussion.

The interesting thing to me is that Kovalev and GGG were my #1 and #2 a few years back. They have both dropped quite a bit on my list solely because others have just taken their spot.

Agree about Kovalev, I thought he won the 1st Ward fight and should have been given 5 minutes recovery time in the rematch. Who knows how that fight ends if that happened.

There are guys like Nietes, who if he can make a bang at 115, can put his name forward.

Nery? Put aside his recent debacles, he blitz a P4P talent twice.