Boxing is not the same..

Anyone else feel this way? Sure we got some stars but it's just not what it used to be IMHO. I think MMA took some chunk of boxing fans while at the same time recruiting would be boxing fans to their fight game. I grew up watching boxing and I myself find that I watch more MMA now.

I'm not arguing that mma is better because there's nothing like a high profile boxing ppv imo. But we don't have those DLH vs Tito type of fights anymore. Canelo vs GGG would be good but outside of that the game seems dry.

I'll give another example I remember years back this site was way more active now I can scroll down and see threads from daaays back on the main forum. Shit is just not the same, the mma forum no need to say names but wow that site had hundreds of thousands on there.

Kind of sad man. What do you guys think?

I been a member of this site for 12 years almost and I remember how it used to be guys. I hope this doesn't come off like me shitting on our sport I will always love boxing but the game is simply not what it used to be.

I wouldn't say mma took as much as boxing gave away...

Boxing lost some of it star power and got desperate... and because of that started rewarding asinine behavior.

This is just my opinion, but when we started letting boxers write their own checks and make their own weight classes and pre fight stipulations. The fabric of the boxing game began to unravel. We always called for some kind of oversight or commission ...

The ufc was its own commission. The fighters make less money, but...
- dont make weight, pay the price.
- act like a dumbass, pay the price. "Mcgregor: i'm back on the PPV, UFC: no youre not"
- Substance abuse bans and penalize fights for stupid things outside the sport
- they regularly clean house and cut loose the do nothing guys
- The reebok contract where they took the sponsor money away helps them remind the fighters where the loyalty lies.
- They have bigger audiences now... but i think they may be on the slide too

I think every boxing fan has 'their era' and compared to the current product, it makes boxing look bad. But my era (80s/90s) have at least 17 years hindsight to it. All the fighters in this era have been defined. Fighters today are making their reputations, they do not have hindsight to help them, but twenty years down the line they will and people will bemoaning the 2036 product and championing this era.

It's a tough call. For instance and your example, DLH and Tito was a huge fight as much because of the drawing power and mainstream recognition each had, as much as it was due to the ability or credibility of both. There are certainly fights like that to be made in the hardcore fans eyes today, but the fact that they aren't happening might lend to your point, I really don't know. The fact that Floyd was never really an exciting fighter with big adversaries and still shattered all the PPV numbers certainly doesn't.

Like many on here and as a guy who remembers calling 800 numbers and clipping newspapers just to get fight night results I'll never see boxing as falling off or not as popular with as much instant access we have now. Before places like this you watched boxing like a fookin lone nomad and what was easily or locally provided to you. Otherwise you had to work to follow or keep up with this sport ;D I definitely agree with the era aspect also and not many things are as large and resonating as when you experienced it first, we all have that era where we lived it live and it is a bit of a measuring stick to what we have now. We like many sports fans get stuck in our tribes. Tito v Oscar were two very centered superstars who benefited from constant exposure when there was any exposure..how else do you get away with cruiserweights and Butterbean fighting on your undercard :-X..and today we may very well have some quantity vs quality going on if anything. Oh and divas creating there own divisions. That can be a turn off. I've said it a hundred times regarding mma also, it's a babe in the woods compared to longevity of boxing. It is massive and yes near everywhere you look but it too will and has run into its blackeyes, corruption, fan cynicism and general card to card let downs. Personally I now watch both as I enjoy the atmosphere of individual sport and don't confuse the two but I mean shit..the number one female fighter was just flattened by a former boxing champ and one of the biggest "faces" in mma is running away from his first professional loss to go pose and talk up a potential circus stunt match with our newest retired diva in Mayweather??? A few things will survive the apocalypse. Bitter exes, humidity in the South, cockroaches and boxing! We'll be fine.

I think that in the UK boxing is growing at quite an alarming rate, I have people who I wouldn't even have classed as casual fans 12 months ago coming up to me asking if I watched the fight on the weekend, because of Hearne/Matchroom/sky most casual fans have been to watch more live boxing than I have.

Fuck MMA, fuck UFC.

Oh and whilst I am at it (even though they have helped grow boxing in the UK) Fuck Hearne/Matchroom/Sky

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Like many on here and as a guy who remembers calling 800 numbers and clipping newspapers just to get fight night results I'll never see boxing as falling off or not as popular with as much instant access we have now. Before places like this you watched boxing like a fookin lone nomad and what was easily or locally provided to you. Otherwise you had to work to follow or keep up with this sport ;D I definitely agree with the era aspect also and not many things are as large and resonating as when you experienced it first, we all have that era where we lived it live and it is a bit of a measuring stick to what we have now. We like many sports fans get stuck in our tribes. Tito v Oscar were two very centered superstars who benefited from constant exposure when there was any exposure..how else do you get away with cruiserweights and Butterbean fighting on your undercard :-X..and today we may very well have some quantity vs quality going on if anything. Oh and divas creating there own divisions. That can be a turn off. I've said it a hundred times regarding mma also, it's a babe in the woods compared to longevity of boxing. It is massive and yes near everywhere you look but it too will and has run into its blackeyes, corruption, fan cynicism and general card to card let downs. Personally I now watch both as I enjoy the atmosphere of individual sport and don't confuse the two but I mean shit..the number one female fighter was just flattened by a former boxing champ and one of the biggest "faces" in mma is running away from his first professional loss to go pose and talk up a potential circus stunt match with our newest retired diva in Mayweather??? A few things will survive the apocalypse. Bitter exes, humidity in the South, cockroaches and boxing! We'll be fine.

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HAHA, very well put. Boxing will always survive that is true. You made a lot of solid points. I do agree that Holly did well but she also used a lot of kickboxing and shes a full blown martial artist now. I think having boxing and training other martial arts is the best form of self defense. Look at the new UFC heavyweight champion Stipe just knocked out Werdum to win the belt with a beauty of a right hand, he was a former golden gloves champ. It however saddens me when boxing fans talk shit about mma, makes all of us boxing fans look like little intimidated bitches. Boxing is one form of combat why shit on other combat sports? Im a fan of Boxing, Jiu Jitsu, kickboxing you name it. Soak it all in.

As said it’s down to ‘your era’ as a fan.

Was late 80s up to early 2000s for me when I knew who everyone was, bought the Ring Magazine and spent hours sadly analysing the ratings and records, fights were on terrestrial tv (or at least on non-ppv subscription channels) and you used to get an EA Knockout Kings \ Fight Night game every year with all the main guys in it etc..etc etc

PPV events used to be better too (thought again that’s because it was my era) where for £15 you’d get a Hamed, Benn, Eubank fight etc from Manchester (often on the same bill) then at 4am in the morning you’d get a Holyfield, Lewis fight etc .

Nowadays I look at the Ring ratings and know who hardly anyone is – I’m having trouble recalling the name of the Ring Pound for Pound number one right now, some guy in one of the bantam weight type divisions I know that much !

Only active fighter threads I comment on now are Haye, Khan, Fury and Joshua. Don’t feel qualified enough to comment on others.

It’s also spread across too many channels and is costly – no wonder the casual fan is on the decline.

But then again it’s natural for older guys to reminisce about the glory days………:-\

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Originally Posted by Mark TKO

As said it’s down to ‘your era’ as a fan.

Was late 80s up to early 2000s for me when I knew who everyone was, bought the Ring Magazine and spent hours sadly analysing the ratings and records, fights were on terrestrial tv (or at least on non-ppv subscription channels) and you used to get an EA Knockout Kings \ Fight Night game every year with all the main guys in it etc..etc etc

PPV events used to be better too (thought again that’s because it was my era) where for £15 you’d get a Hamed, Benn, Eubank fight etc from Manchester (often on the same bill) then at 4am in the morning you’d get a Holyfield, Lewis fight etc .

Nowadays I look at the Ring ratings and know who hardly anyone is – I’m having trouble recalling the name of the Ring Pound for Pound number one right now, some guy in one of the bantam weight type divisions I know that much !

Only active fighter threads I comment on now are Haye, Khan, Fury and Joshua. Don’t feel qualified enough to comment on others.

It’s also spread across too many channels and is costly – no wonder the casual fan is on the decline.

But then again it’s natural for older guys to reminisce about the glory days………:-\

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Damn those were some fucking grade A ppvs. You made another great point with the boxing games. I haven't even thought about them, but another example on how UFC/MMA is taking away from boxing.

EA who made the fight night and knock out games stopped making Boxing games and they are focused on making UFC games now. At first they said that they would rotate UFC one year then Boxing the next but they have made back to back UFC games and no boxing games have even been announced. I been waiting forever for a new boxing game I sort of lost interest already.

But see that's exactly what I mean if no UFC games we would of had some awesome next gen boxing games. It's the little things like this that recruit new fans to MMA instead of boxing.

I will still make a effort to get up in the middle of the night to watch boxing.
But I would not walk to the bottom of my garden to watch MMA, it holds NO interest the same goes for women's boxing.
You like what you like.

Valid points..
1. Boxing in America as we know use to be public television. Only the top tier fought closed circuit & today cable/PPV.

2. Said many times: too many belts.

3. Too many self promoters. Every Saturday night there is boxing across the globe. End result too many watered down cards.

Yet Floyd and Pac proved. If promoted right... fans will flock. To bad they didnt deliver.

As far as the Holly fight ..I sincerely believe Christy Martin layed the foundation for women's boxing.
Laila. Ali had the name, the looks and developed skill. But she has that shitty ass modern day attitude of (I) will determine what the other fighter gets.
Ann Wolfe was her George Forman who had won titles from MW to HW.
I blame Laila 100% for not giving that fight to the world.
Dana White doesn't allow that high n mighty mind set to exist.
True boxing isnt the same... but it's not dead yet.

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Originally Posted by outspoken

Anyone else feel this way? Sure we got some stars but it's just not what it used to be IMHO. I think MMA took some chunk of boxing fans while at the same time recruiting would be boxing fans to their fight game. I grew up watching boxing and I myself find that I watch more MMA now.

I'm not arguing that mma is better because there's nothing like a high profile boxing ppv imo. But we don't have those DLH vs Tito type of fights anymore. Canelo vs GGG would be good but outside of that the game seems dry.

I'll give another example I remember years back this site was way more active now I can scroll down and see threads from daaays back on the main forum. Shit is just not the same, the mma forum no need to say names but wow that site had hundreds of thousands on there.

Kind of sad man. What do you guys think?

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Get your fucking depressing ass outta here bitch.

People used said it wasn't as good as it was, even in Ali's day they used to say "It's not like it was Rocky Marciano's day" As for MMA ? If MMA is so great, then why don't they come over to boxing and make real money ?

Because they can't. You would never in million years get a top MMA boxer to beat decent fighter in the rin. But decent boxer could beat an MMA fighter in a cage. MMA have no chins. No stamina. Nothing.

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Originally Posted by outspoken

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Originally Posted by Spicoli

Like many on here and as a guy who remembers calling 800 numbers and clipping newspapers just to get fight night results I'll never see boxing as falling off or not as popular with as much instant access we have now. Before places like this you watched boxing like a fookin lone nomad and what was easily or locally provided to you. Otherwise you had to work to follow or keep up with this sport ;D I definitely agree with the era aspect also and not many things are as large and resonating as when you experienced it first, we all have that era where we lived it live and it is a bit of a measuring stick to what we have now. We like many sports fans get stuck in our tribes. Tito v Oscar were two very centered superstars who benefited from constant exposure when there was any exposure..how else do you get away with cruiserweights and Butterbean fighting on your undercard :-X..and today we may very well have some quantity vs quality going on if anything. Oh and divas creating there own divisions. That can be a turn off. I've said it a hundred times regarding mma also, it's a babe in the woods compared to longevity of boxing. It is massive and yes near everywhere you look but it too will and has run into its blackeyes, corruption, fan cynicism and general card to card let downs. Personally I now watch both as I enjoy the atmosphere of individual sport and don't confuse the two but I mean shit..the number one female fighter was just flattened by a former boxing champ and one of the biggest "faces" in mma is running away from his first professional loss to go pose and talk up a potential circus stunt match with our newest retired diva in Mayweather??? A few things will survive the apocalypse. Bitter exes, humidity in the South, cockroaches and boxing! We'll be fine.

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HAHA, very well put. Boxing will always survive that is true. You made a lot of solid points. I do agree that Holly did well but she also used a lot of kickboxing and shes a full blown martial artist now. I think having boxing and training other martial arts is the best form of self defense. Look at the new UFC heavyweight champion Stipe just knocked out Werdum to win the belt with a beauty of a right hand, he was a former golden gloves champ. It however saddens me when boxing fans talk shit about mma, makes all of us boxing fans look like little intimidated bitches. Boxing is one form of combat why shit on other combat sports? Im a fan of Boxing, Jiu Jitsu, kickboxing you name it. Soak it all in.

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I think much of that push back is aimed more at some mma fans or talking heads who come in every couple of years and lament how mma is leading to the death or decline of boxing. There are biased fans on both counts but boxing and some of it's personalities are as big as it's ever been if you ask me. Ones success doesn't translate to the decline of the other. As much mma as I've watched I rarely hear, if ever, the announcers or even fighters rag on boxing, the fact that boxing-boxing coaches are essential for full package in camps seems to be well recognized and near respected. Of course there are exceptions..combat sports are very tribal..but mostly its fans who try to tear it down to build up mma that cause the wagons to circle. Both sports have shit fights and bad nights, and both have complete tear ups. To each there own I suppose.

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Originally Posted by denilson200

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Originally Posted by outspoken

Anyone else feel this way? Sure we got some stars but it's just not what it used to be IMHO. I think MMA took some chunk of boxing fans while at the same time recruiting would be boxing fans to their fight game. I grew up watching boxing and I myself find that I watch more MMA now.

I'm not arguing that mma is better because there's nothing like a high profile boxing ppv imo. But we don't have those DLH vs Tito type of fights anymore. Canelo vs GGG would be good but outside of that the game seems dry.

I'll give another example I remember years back this site was way more active now I can scroll down and see threads from daaays back on the main forum. Shit is just not the same, the mma forum no need to say names but wow that site had hundreds of thousands on there.

Kind of sad man. What do you guys think?

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Get your fucking depressing ass outta here bitch.

People used said it wasn't as good as it was, even in Ali's day they used to say "It's not like it was Rocky Marciano's day" As for MMA ? If MMA is so great, then why don't they come over to boxing and make real money ?

Because they can't. You would never in million years get a top MMA boxer to beat decent fighter in the rin. But decent boxer could beat an MMA fighter in a cage. MMA have no chins. No stamina. Nothing.

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I was going to respond with some solid points but you're just an ignorant fuck with horrible grammar so why even bother?.. If you really think a decent boxer can beat an MMA fighter in a cage you are beyond delusional. Two different sports idiot. If you are ever in south Texas stop by armadura bjj. I'll gladly make u shit your pants.

Boxing is not the same as it was years ago.

Boxing changes and evolves, sometimes it is better and sometimes it is worse. That is true in all sports and life.

With age and experience you also know what the new generation of fighter will do as you have seen it all before. So if I see Floyd I see a Leonard (post Hagler),

GGG is Julio Ceaser Chavez,

Floyd v Manny Pac is Tito v Oscar

Rigo is Ricardo Lopez

Personally I have been priced out of watching Boxing and do not watch it as I use to but then the attraction is not the same so I do not make the same effort.

I got priced out of football that was what got me so heavily into boxing

football match = £40 ticket, £20 beer, £10 food, throw in travel if you are going to an away game
boxing = £12 a month boxnation, skysports £0 (watch it all on sky go) and at worst £16 PPV
throw in a few cans which will no doubt be in my fridge anyway, and maybe a pizza

I noticed it a while ago, maybe 8-10 months ago, i watch it though but not as intresting anymore, i would never give it up, just waiting for the swede to get on top so i have someone special to observe n cheer on!

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Originally Posted by Master

Boxing is not the same as it was years ago.

Boxing changes and evolves, sometimes it is better and sometimes it is worse. That is true in all sports and life.

With age and experience you also know what the new generation of fighter will do as you have seen it all before. So if I see Floyd I see a Leonard (post Hagler),

GGG is Julio Ceaser Chavez,

Floyd v Manny Pac is Tito v Oscar

Rigo is Ricardo Lopez

Personally I have been priced out of watching Boxing and do not watch it as I use to but then the attraction is not the same so I do not make the same effort.

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You have made some great points there. It really has and for an old guy like me who started watching in 1966 its hard not to sound like a guy talking about "walking home 2 clicks after school uphill in knee high snow"

So I'll sum it up by simply saying that I have witnessed for half a century the utter destruction of the concept of risk and reward and by extension it has created a litany of other issues. I cannot use the word evolution as the cause or reason because to me its devolved.

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Originally Posted by outspoken

Anyone else feel this way? Sure we got some stars but it's just not what it used to be IMHO. I think MMA took some chunk of boxing fans while at the same time recruiting would be boxing fans to their fight game. I grew up watching boxing and I myself find that I watch more MMA now.

I'm not arguing that mma is better because there's nothing like a high profile boxing ppv imo. But we don't have those DLH vs Tito type of fights anymore. Canelo vs GGG would be good but outside of that the game seems dry.

I'll give another example I remember years back this site was way more active now I can scroll down and see threads from daaays back on the main forum. Shit is just not the same, the mma forum no need to say names but wow that site had hundreds of thousands on there.

Kind of sad man. What do you guys think?

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MMA's partly to blame, 'cause you just can't deny that the sport has siphoned off many ex-boxing fans. I personally don't like nor follow MMA, and boxing's still #1 in my book... but many others feel differently. Another thing is the lack of the boxing superstar personality that captures the imagination and following of millions. There were more of those back then. The number seems to have dried up a little bit. A lot of "blah" champions and contenders out there. That's another factor. There used to be more of the mega-fights before. Now it's few and far between. It also seems that between the ducking issues, the PED issues, and other things that take away from the sport, people are becoming disinterested. But you bring up very good points... good topic.

Adding to the personalities in boxing part...

In the past you had the Trinidads, the De La Hoyas. You had Barrera and Morales waging wars and in their primes. Pacquiao was in his prime. Hatton had the whole UK behind him. The heavyweights, before Wlad came in and chloroformed the division and fans' interest in it.... had Tyson, Lewis, etc. The division was more exciting. You had the "Great White American Hopes" like Pavlik, before he went south. Most of these guys were likable, and good ambassadors to their sport. There were plenty of mega-wars involving these and other fighters I know I forgot to mention.

Nowadays all these guys are gone. Floyd could've been one of those, but he's too polarizing for people to get 100% behind him. Besides that, who's left? GGG's great, but doesn't have the mass appeal of any of the above, for whatever reason. Wlad is gone, thankfully, but the riff-raff that's left behind doesn't yank the public's chain. The big names just aren't as big as they used to be.

Who knows... maybe it's cyclic, and we're about to enter into another golden age. There's a lot of young, exciting talent coming up. We're going to need some true wars and rivalries (like Barrera-Morales, Ali-Frazier, Gatti-Ward) to get the public interest back. Unfortunately, MMA is here to stay, and boxing's just going to have to share the attention.

There are still some great fighters to watch we can still be entertained,! remember they don't have to be title fights good domestic dust ups, yes boxing is still alive and kicking.;)

Look if you look at the sports in a world perspective you will see that the boxing game has a lot on Ufc. I mean they have America and Brazil they might have some more Uk followers now because the Count won the belt but thats it. I am older then the Ufc i mean you can see boxing footage from the early 1900s for crying out loud this sport so fucking old not even funny. UFC fighters get paid shit and the numbers i have seen are not in boxing league. Their top fighter made 27 Million this year and thats a record and no one is near him boxers in the 1920's are making more then the modern ufc fighter is today. I like UFC but there fans say there sport is dead all the time on sherdog its a thread made everyday. World wide boxing is fine and most likely will be fine when we are all dead has been for over a century.

boxing is the same, old fights and the period they were in are always looked on with rose tinted glasses


I watched Ali Frazier the other day, 3rd on I think it was, what a shit fight


not in the same shitness league as any of klits fights ill give you that, not on your nelly


but shit non the less, there has been many better heavyweight fights than that over the years


yet that is looked back on as one of the greats, top 10 fights of all time

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Originally Posted by erics44

boxing is the same, old fights and the period they were in are always looked on with rose tinted glasses


I watched Ali Frazier the other day, 3rd on I think it was, what a shit fight


not in the same shitness league as any of klits fights ill give you that, not on your nelly


but shit non the less, there has been many better heavyweight fights than that over the years


yet that is looked back on as one of the greats, top 10 fights of all time

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You must mean the 2nd Ali v Frazier fight the other 2 were excellent.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by erics44

boxing is the same, old fights and the period they were in are always looked on with rose tinted glasses


I watched Ali Frazier the other day, 3rd on I think it was, what a shit fight


not in the same shitness league as any of klits fights ill give you that, not on your nelly


but shit non the less, there has been many better heavyweight fights than that over the years


yet that is looked back on as one of the greats, top 10 fights of all time

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You must mean the 2nd Ali v Frazier fight the other 2 were excellent.

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The one where frazier didn't come out for the last round

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by erics44

boxing is the same, old fights and the period they were in are always looked on with rose tinted glasses


I watched Ali Frazier the other day, 3rd on I think it was, what a shit fight


not in the same shitness league as any of klits fights ill give you that, not on your nelly


but shit non the less, there has been many better heavyweight fights than that over the years


yet that is looked back on as one of the greats, top 10 fights of all time

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You must mean the 2nd Ali v Frazier fight the other 2 were excellent.

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The one where frazier didn't come out for the last round

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Eric you really must have lost it. That was the thriller in manilla, whilst they were older and slower, the fight was better because they just battered one another with rage and hate. It was brutal and Ali said the closest he came to death in the ring. Re-watch it from that perspective.

shit fight


just a little fellow trying to hit a big fellow and failing most of the time


doesn't surprise me frazier gassed, he was doing all the trying

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Originally Posted by erics44

shit fight


just a little fellow trying to hit a big fellow and failing most of the time


doesn't surprise me frazier gassed, he was doing all the trying

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Hate to see your description of Hagler v Hearns. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by erics44

shit fight


just a little fellow trying to hit a big fellow and failing most of the time


doesn't surprise me frazier gassed, he was doing all the trying

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Hate to see your description of Hagler v Hearns. :rolleyes:

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hagler hearns was a great fight, 2 evenly matched fighters having a fight, both landing punches, no holding, just having a scrap

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Originally Posted by erics44

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by erics44

shit fight


just a little fellow trying to hit a big fellow and failing most of the time


doesn't surprise me frazier gassed, he was doing all the trying

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Hate to see your description of Hagler v Hearns. :rolleyes:

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hagler hearns was a great fight, 2 evenly matched fighters having a fight, both landing punches, no holding, just having a scrap

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Thriller in Mannilla was just that with some holding in extreme heat.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by erics44

shit fight


just a little fellow trying to hit a big fellow and failing most of the time


doesn't surprise me frazier gassed, he was doing all the trying

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Hate to see your description of Hagler v Hearns. :rolleyes:

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Some people are just very hard to please. ;)

i admit I didn't see the first 4 or 5 rounds


ill watch it from the start and report back

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Originally Posted by erics44

i admit I didn't see the first 4 or 5 rounds


ill watch it from the start and report back

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Thank you that is much appreciated. We wait with anticipation.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by erics44

i admit I didn't see the first 4 or 5 rounds


ill watch it from the start and report back

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Thank you that is much appreciated. We wait with anticipation.

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;D

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by erics44

i admit I didn't see the first 4 or 5 rounds


ill watch it from the start and report back

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Thank you that is much appreciated. We wait with anticipation.

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;D

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Still waiting with bated breath.

give me chance, i'm a busy chap

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Originally Posted by erics44

give me chance, i'm a busy chap

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Watched it on the Ali tribute ITV 4 and it was a brilliant fight.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by erics44

i admit I didn't see the first 4 or 5 rounds


ill watch it from the start and report back

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Thank you that is much appreciated. We wait with anticipation.

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;D

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Still waiting with bated breath.

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We've waited long enough, @Master.
Call the International Association of Boxing Historians and tell them it's a false alarm, and they can go ahead and just leave Ali-Frazier III in the annals of boxing's greatest fights.

A miss Roy Jones dominating for a decade on HBO 3-4 times a year.