End of career losses

Losses at the end of fighters careers that would undoubtably gone the other way

Just reading about tommy coyle and he seems like a good guy and is having a decent career but looking back through his record the fight against katsidis stands out

How would that one have panned out with katsidis in his prime?

Another example that stands out to me is Nigel Benn v Steve Collins

Thing with that one is tho, prime v prime I think Benn would have won but it would have been lot closer than coyle v katsidis, know what I mean?

Benn was finished by the time he fought Steve. A peak Benn would have hurt Steve, who would be strong enough to take the bombs, and battered him.

A peak Eubanks would have beaten Steve Collins.

I think Joe Calzaghe would have beaten them all.

Prime RJJ and Hop WOULD NEVER EVER have lost to Cal-slappy.

And Hagler......pffffft..... 6 rounds tops.

Whitaker would have danced circles around Trinidad had they fought in 1994/5 like they should have. Don King kept Felix away from this fight to protect his record. Instead, he fought an aged, coked up version of Sweet Pea years later.

Ali would have taken out berbek in 4 rounds in his prime

Prime Mike McCallum had trouble with Steve Collins, and he was a better fighter than Benn or Eubanks, don't think those examples are a given. Collins actually get's a bit underrated for fighting those guys at the end of their careers, he had done well in just as deep beforehand.

I think maybe Roy Jones vs Danny Green would have had a different outcome in 1995. How about Tyson vs Kevin McBride in 1988. Holyfield would have probably beaten Valuev a bit easier in 1993, that kind of thing?

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Prime Mike McCallum had trouble with Steve Collins, and he was a better fighter than Benn or Eubanks, don't think those examples are a given. Collins actually get's a bit underrated for fighting those guys at the end of their careers, he had done well in just as deep beforehand.

I think maybe Roy Jones vs Danny Green would have had a different outcome in 1995. How about Tyson vs Kevin McBride in 1988. Holyfield would have probably beaten Valuev a bit easier in 1993, that kind of thing?

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Steve Collins got lucky he was a
limited tough nut. Never rated him Calzaghe would given him a boxing lesson simple. He beat a well over the hill Benn , and Eubank let him off the hook.
When I think about boxing Steve Collins never comes to mind.!
Sorry more forgetful than memorabil .

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Prime Mike McCallum had trouble with Steve Collins, and he was a better fighter than Benn or Eubanks, don't think those examples are a given. Collins actually get's a bit underrated for fighting those guys at the end of their careers, he had done well in just as deep beforehand.

I think maybe Roy Jones vs Danny Green would have had a different outcome in 1995. How about Tyson vs Kevin McBride in 1988. Holyfield would have probably beaten Valuev a bit easier in 1993, that kind of thing?

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Steve Collins got lucky he was a
limited tough nut. Never rated him Calzaghe would given him a boxing lesson simple. He beat a well over the hill Benn , and Eubank let him off the hook.
When I think about boxing Steve Collins never comes to mind.!
Sorry more forgetful than memorabil .

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McCallum had more trouble with Watson that Steve. Collins also lost to another top US fighter, Taylor I think, so he was limited and only came to the UK because he got beat by the top US fighters.

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Originally Posted by Sleepwalker

Whitaker would have danced circles around Trinidad had they fought in 1994/5 like they should have. Don King kept Felix away from this fight to protect his record. Instead, he fought an aged, coked up version of Sweet Pea years later.

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Tito beat some top hungry dangerous undefeated fighters at the time in Carr and Campus so please be kinder to Felix than that.

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Prime Mike McCallum had trouble with Steve Collins, and he was a better fighter than Benn or Eubanks, don't think those examples are a given. Collins actually get's a bit underrated for fighting those guys at the end of their careers, he had done well in just as deep beforehand.

I think maybe Roy Jones vs Danny Green would have had a different outcome in 1995. How about Tyson vs Kevin McBride in 1988. Holyfield would have probably beaten Valuev a bit easier in 1993, that kind of thing?

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Steve Collins got lucky he was a
limited tough nut. Never rated him Calzaghe would given him a boxing lesson simple. He beat a well over the hill Benn , and Eubank let him off the hook.
When I think about boxing Steve Collins never comes to mind.!
Sorry more forgetful than memorabil .

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Let him off the hook? Umm, Collins beat him twice. That's 2-0, did he "let him off the hook both times?"

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Prime Mike McCallum had trouble with Steve Collins, and he was a better fighter than Benn or Eubanks, don't think those examples are a given. Collins actually get's a bit underrated for fighting those guys at the end of their careers, he had done well in just as deep beforehand.

I think maybe Roy Jones vs Danny Green would have had a different outcome in 1995. How about Tyson vs Kevin McBride in 1988. Holyfield would have probably beaten Valuev a bit easier in 1993, that kind of thing?

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Steve Collins got lucky he was a
limited tough nut. Never rated him Calzaghe would given him a boxing lesson simple. He beat a well over the hill Benn , and Eubank let him off the hook.
When I think about boxing Steve Collins never comes to mind.!
Sorry more forgetful than memorabil .

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Let him off the hook? Umm, Collins beat him twice. That's 2-0, did he "let him off the hook both times?"

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Eubank had Collins seriously hurt in one of the fights a peak Chris would have stopped Steve.

Ali over Berbick
Tim Witherspoon over Brian Nix
Golota over Saleta
Adamek over Molina
Ray Robinson over Joey Archer
JC Chavez over Wiley
Joe Louis over Marciano
Nelson over Fenech
Arguello over Scott Walker
Mosely over Avanesyan
Leonard over Camacho
Duran over Camacho

Anyone that Holyfeild lost to after he was 40 and as for Hopkins i am not even sure to tell you truth because his best wins came after he was old really. I mean in his prime he beat Oscar and Tito both neither were atg at that weight his best wins at lhw he was much older.

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Prime Mike McCallum had trouble with Steve Collins, and he was a better fighter than Benn or Eubanks, don't think those examples are a given. Collins actually get's a bit underrated for fighting those guys at the end of their careers, he had done well in just as deep beforehand.

I think maybe Roy Jones vs Danny Green would have had a different outcome in 1995. How about Tyson vs Kevin McBride in 1988. Holyfield would have probably beaten Valuev a bit easier in 1993, that kind of thing?

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Steve Collins got lucky he was a
limited tough nut. Never rated him Calzaghe would given him a boxing lesson simple. He beat a well over the hill Benn , and Eubank let him off the hook.
When I think about boxing Steve Collins never comes to mind.!
Sorry more forgetful than memorabil .

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Let him off the hook? Umm, Collins beat him twice. That's 2-0, did he "let him off the hook both times?"

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Eubank had Collins seriously hurt in one of the fights a peak Chris would have stopped Steve.

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Yes he did Collins was all at sea and Eubank would not hit him.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Ali over Berbick
Tim Witherspoon over Brian Nix
Golota over Saleta
Adamek over Molina
Ray Robinson over Joey Archer
JC Chavez over Wiley
Joe Louis over Marciano
Nelson over Fenech
Arguello over Scott Walker
Mosely over Avanesyan
Leonard over Camacho
Duran over Camacho

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Had Ray and Camacho fought same class in both primes. I'M not so sure. . .
Ray never really fought fighters as mobile as he. Southpaw may be an issue as well.

Prime Duran had the style to beat Camacho, he'd cut the ring off and bang him ala JCC.

Prime Mosley stops Canelo,Edges Cotto on scorecards.

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Prime Mike McCallum had trouble with Steve Collins, and he was a better fighter than Benn or Eubanks, don't think those examples are a given. Collins actually get's a bit underrated for fighting those guys at the end of their careers, he had done well in just as deep beforehand.

I think maybe Roy Jones vs Danny Green would have had a different outcome in 1995. How about Tyson vs Kevin McBride in 1988. Holyfield would have probably beaten Valuev a bit easier in 1993, that kind of thing?

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Steve Collins got lucky he was a
limited tough nut. Never rated him Calzaghe would given him a boxing lesson simple. He beat a well over the hill Benn , and Eubank let him off the hook.
When I think about boxing Steve Collins never comes to mind.!
Sorry more forgetful than memorabil .

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Let him off the hook? Umm, Collins beat him twice. That's 2-0, did he "let him off the hook both times?"

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Eubank had Collins seriously hurt in one of the fights a peak Chris would have stopped Steve.

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Yes he did Collins was all at sea and Eubank would not hit him.

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Okay, I'm trying to understand this excuse making. You can't be talking about the 2nd fight because scores be damned that was a blowout and at no point was Collins hurt.

So you must be pointing to the first fight in which the judges determined Collins won 9, 8, and 7 rounds. You are specifically talking about the 1 right hand that Eubank landed in the 10th. The one where at no point did it appear Collins, a man who was never stopped in his entire career, was close to being stopped. You assume that if Eubank would have fought against his counter punching nature and lead he would have stopped a man that was never stopped? And on top of this you attribute him not stopping the man that was never stopped was due to him being at the end of his career even though it was 3 full years before the end of his career?

Seems like you are making quite a leap. He should have thrown punches but it was Eubank being Eubank. This was a man shouting that he earned a draw exuberantly after his corner had told him he was well behind and needed a knockout.

The dudes ego was and is out of control and it cost him, but that's just Eubank. Not old Eubank, just Eubank.

I think Collins eubank would have been close at any time in their careers


no one can say eubank was in his prime when they fought, he hadn't looked great for a few fights and a defeat was on its way


thing is tho Collins high work rate and his solid chin was the style to beat eubank

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by Master

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by Dia bando

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Prime Mike McCallum had trouble with Steve Collins, and he was a better fighter than Benn or Eubanks, don't think those examples are a given. Collins actually get's a bit underrated for fighting those guys at the end of their careers, he had done well in just as deep beforehand.

I think maybe Roy Jones vs Danny Green would have had a different outcome in 1995. How about Tyson vs Kevin McBride in 1988. Holyfield would have probably beaten Valuev a bit easier in 1993, that kind of thing?

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Steve Collins got lucky he was a
limited tough nut. Never rated him Calzaghe would given him a boxing lesson simple. He beat a well over the hill Benn , and Eubank let him off the hook.
When I think about boxing Steve Collins never comes to mind.!
Sorry more forgetful than memorabil .

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Let him off the hook? Umm, Collins beat him twice. That's 2-0, did he "let him off the hook both times?"

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Eubank had Collins seriously hurt in one of the fights a peak Chris would have stopped Steve.

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Yes he did Collins was all at sea and Eubank would not hit him.

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Okay, I'm trying to understand this excuse making. You can't be talking about the 2nd fight because scores be damned that was a blowout and at no point was Collins hurt.

So you must be pointing to the first fight in which the judges determined Collins won 9, 8, and 7 rounds. You are specifically talking about the 1 right hand that Eubank landed in the 10th. The one where at no point did it appear Collins, a man who was never stopped in his entire career, was close to being stopped. You assume that if Eubank would have fought against his counter punching nature and lead he would have stopped a man that was never stopped? And on top of this you attribute him not stopping the man that was never stopped was due to him being at the end of his career even though it was 3 full years before the end of his career?

Seems like you are making quite a leap. He should have thrown punches but it was Eubank being Eubank. This was a man shouting that he earned a draw exuberantly after his corner had told him he was well behind and needed a knockout.

The dudes ego was and is out of control and it cost him, but that's just Eubank. Not old Eubank, just Eubank.

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Going from memory, didn't Eubank drop Collins as well as hurt him on the ropes.

Chris peak performances came against Benn the first time and the comeback against Watson. That Chris would have beaten Steve.

***Ray Robinson over Joey Archer***

Especially under reasonable weather/temperature conditions.


Leonard over Norris.....in one helluva entertaining fight.

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Originally Posted by El Kabong

Ali over Berbick
Tim Witherspoon over Brian Nix
Golota over Saleta
Adamek over Molina
Ray Robinson over Joey Archer
JC Chavez over Wiley
Joe Louis over Marciano
Nelson over Fenech
Arguello over Scott Walker
Mosely over Avanesyan
Leonard over Camacho
Duran over Camacho

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I think and maybe with a bit of fan bias :-X that it was Randall back to back, the second "win" who put Chavez on the road to fizzling out. He did well to rebound with careful match making with some worn names and King patching the pieces back together but he would never again win at the peak Randall level. Arguello v Walker was a sad trip. He went out on a decent ko of a former champ only to come back yet again and arguably lose both times. To a 3 win unknown and a kid with a Joe dirt/Fonzie hair cut and pink trunks.