What if Hearns had beaten Hagler by stopping Marvin on cuts in the 3rd round?
What would have happened?
Remember Hearns broke his hand in the 1st round and did not have the legs to box so changed his strategy in the dressing room.
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What if Hearns had beaten Hagler by stopping Marvin on cuts in the 3rd round?
What would have happened?
Remember Hearns broke his hand in the 1st round and did not have the legs to box so changed his strategy in the dressing room.
Hearns had his mind made to KO loooooong before his injury. He may not have been as reckless as he was during the fight had he not hurt his hand to begin with, but Tommy was certainly planning to make this a short night.
He was definitely feeling himself after his surprising KO of Duran prior to this fight and that uberconfidence carried over to his fight with Hagler.
I believed his plan was to box Hagler and Manny Steward would have preferred that game plan going into the fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleepwalker
Tommy tried to outbox SRL...and got stopped. (The rounds he won were the ones where Leonard tried to outbox him).
In comparison to Leonard, Hagler had superior power, a better chin, and knew how to cut off the ring at least as well. Unless one thinks SRL's speed advantage makes all the difference, I don't see how Tommy avoids the same fate in Hagler-Hearns II that he suffered in Leonard-Hearns I.
I've never heard too much speculation about Hagler-Hearns II. That would've been a blockbuster of a rematch. I can't say for sure Hagler would automatically win it, though. Hearns would undoubtedly make adjustments to his game plan, armed with the knowledge that Hagler had one tough chin. I could see Hearns keeping him at bay with his jab, trying to outbox him in the early rounds... and turning up the heat in the middle rounds. If pressed, I'd still bet on Hagler, only because he was such a BEAST.
I can't see hearms keeping Hagler off him.
I couldn't pick against Marvin if it had happened.
I was too young to be interested in the politics at the time but was a rematch ever discussed ? Like TitoFan says never heard much about it so I've never really thought about it - until now of course
Now, I knew Tommy Hearns back in the day, and I sparred many many rounds with him. He was about ten years older than me .... and he was a monster in the gym. He would beat the shit out of eleven year old me because I dared to step into the ring with him. Anybody in the same ring as Tommy would have to knock him out because he would really hurt or humiliate you otherwise.
He went in the ring with Hagler, just as he did with every single other person, with that mindset. That's why he was a great fighter, ducked nobody, avoided no one, feared no man.
Incidentally, it's true Manny Steward wanted him to box Hagler .... because Tommy was the better boxer. Trouble was that Tommys balls would always come out when he fought.
Also, his mate (Freddie something) gave him a long leg massage in the dressing room just before the fight. Tommy was already cooling down and his muscles were relaxing before he stepped in the ring. He couldn't do 12 rounds that night anyway. Manny went ballistic but it was too late. Unbelievable. Wouldn't happen nowadays.
Also Hagler was near the end of his reign an only had a few more fights afterwards because of injury and inactivity.
They did share the same ring (I think after Hearns beat Roldan) where they mention a rematch.
Hearns could have out boxed the aged Marvellous Marvin Hagler if Leonard did it.
I don't really know if Hearns could have put Hagler away but at the time of his hand breaking I figured if anyone it could have been him. I remember something I read once in Ring Magazine and it made me wonder if this had anything to do with his loss to Leonard and Hagler. Emanuel Steward was a good trainer and recognized talent building upon that like Dundee, Freddy Brown with Duran, Eddie Futch and the list goes on a little. Steward used to crank up the heat in Kronk Gym winter, summer, fall or spring and this would cause the fighters to sweat and I concur dehydrate. Steward's champions I felt would leave a piece of themselves on the Kronk floor. My point is that the man Hearns would probably have trained harder and left some more on that floor. Hearns was a welterweight for too long according to what I read and he has always been top heavy being built more like a light heavyweight when it all ended but in my belief too soon. If only he moved up and if only his legs were in tune with his upper body and Hagler knew this and pressed on then but later we will never know now.
Even Hearns boxing master class I would think Hagler to solid and consistent for him. Massive respect to Hearns but anyone can box as a great, and he was, until they are dragged into fight and the heart out shines the brain. Just how long did Hagler and Leonard actually stew before real talks began?
Exactly long enough for Leonard to see Hagler diminished in the ring. His quote when watching the Mugabi fight "I can beat him, I'm going to fight him". It's a great statement in the second part but the complete statement implies that he wasn't going to fight him until he believed he could beat him. And there's no denying Hagler was fading.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
As for the point of the thread I'm glad there wasn't a 2nd fight. The first was exactly as it should have been. Maybe a 2nd fight Hearns moves more but sooner or later Hagler would get to him. Why bother when the 1st was perfection in every possible way? Hagler showed a phenominal chin and the fortitude to deal with a nasty cut and end the fight before the cut ended it. Hearns showed a great chin(Hagler landed many bombs before the end) and the will to fight the best fighter. Not box, fight. With a broken hand. It was art. If Da Vinci finished the Mona Lisa would it be better? Or is it right exactly as it is?
Whoa...... RewindQuote:
Originally Posted by X
Run that first sentence again
Really?
Wow!
Were you born in the states then?
No, I was born in Wales :)
I lived in Chicago for two years and Detroit for five when I was younger.
I trained and boxed (amateur) in the Kronk for the five years I was there. Tommy was 'King of the Gym' at the time. I wouldn't say I was his friend or anything, but we knew each other reasonably well. Only a gym friendship though as he was older than me and had a different circle. I was a young kid and he was already an elite pro by then.
He was a monstor in the ring. The gym wars were always tougher than your actual contests. Manny Was a nice man too.
We left the US and went to the Middle East and the U.K., and I carried on boxing amateur at a good level until I was 23.
You are right the gym wars would not have helped the longevity of Tommy's career.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
If I trained at the Kronk and sparred Hearns i'd be slipping it in every other post. Nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
SameQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterIf I trained at the Kronk and sparred Hearns i'd be slipping it in every other post. Nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
I'd be the only person here not sick of hearing it.
I'd actively seek out the 'have you ever boxed' brigade just to fuck with them.
Nice X.
I think Hagler was the wrong match up for Tommy. Marvin was just too good at everything and had a granite chin. If Leonard could make Tommy wilt, I have no doubt Marvin could as well.
Tommy was an amazing fighter, but just flawed enough to make every fight exciting (these fighters tend to be more exciting than the truly dominant/fearsome fighters often). I would have loved to have seen Tommy in hypothetical match ups vs Toney, McAllum, Norris, Benvenuti, Griffith, Trinidad...etc. He's probably the fighter I most put in hypothetical match ups (I'm a dork and visualize fights while I run) because he was such an exciting fighter with so many tools at his disposal.
I feel Tommy could have won the rematch, Hagler was nearly finished and Hearns achieved plenty afterwards. Tommy had miles on his clock whereas Hagler was all but finished.
Also when Hearn's wanted revenge he got it as he did with Leonard ( but was robbed by the draw).
I do not know how much it would of helped or if Hagler would get to him anyway but i think Hearns would get on the bike and box him in the rematch. He may still lose but with his reach and skill he would have a great chance to make it to the cards and win in a 12 round fight even better.