Arguments for getting rid of the HW division in boxing

I know this will rub the boxing purists the wrong way, but personally I'm sick and tired of suffering through the lousiest division in boxing for well over two decades now. Long gone are the days of Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis, Vitali Klitschko, et al. Ever since the chloroform days of the Wlad reign, we haven't had a decent period of heavyweight boxing to speak of. The other divisions literally run rings around the heavyweights. And we keep paying attention to it, hoping for something good, only because by nature we like to see big guys duking it out.

Let's recap, shall we? Ever since the Wlad days, we had an endless procession of forgettable opponents climbing into the ring scared shitless of Wlad, who himself was scared shitless of getting his chin shattered, courtesy of several early career devastating KTFO losses. So we were treated to nothing but grappling, fouling, joyless fights, with hopeless tomato cans being paraded in front of Wlad and looking for a soft spot to land. THEN... along comes Fury who, in a HUGELY forgettable fight, at least has the gumption not to be scared of Wlad, which in turn terrified Wlad even MORE. The result was a lousy HW fight where at least the result was good. Someone finally unseated Wlad. Happy days were ahead.

HA! Happy days my ass. Tyson imploded for all to see... and there went the rematch nobody wanted to see anyway. People..... we don't see ANY of this crap in the lower weights, now do we. Now we're back to the "on again off again" shell game, with fights getting almost made and then cancelled, only to leave us with the same crappy, one-sided, boring affairs which have no bearing at all on who's the best HW in the world. It's enough to make any fan puke.

I stopped being a fan of the HW division a LOOOOOOONG time ago. I was never a Larry Holmes fight and hated his whining guts. But I long for the days of Holmes-Norton, Tyson-Ruddock, Bowe-Holyfield....... even Lewis-Vitali. Those are as extinct as the dinosaur.

I'm just having a major rant and of course the HW division will never get dumped. But whenever we boxing fans wonder why the sport has lost a lot of its popularity.... we need look no further than the crappy heavyweights and all the shenanigans that go on. And because the casual fan only cares about the big guys, the sport is pretty screwed.

One more point.

The HW division has always had it's share of fatsos who feel as long as they have a knockout punch, it's ok to be blubbery. They might gas halfway through the fight, but as long as they have that puncher's chance, who cares. But in the old Mike Tyson days, at least the fights were good and full of good action. So the occasional whale could be forgiven because the division itself was good. Nowadays, the division is CRAP. So to have these blubbery bums around only adds insult to more insult.

Not only that. The HW division is the only one where 50-year old guys feel compelled to make a comeback.
Why not? If I was a 50-year old ex-HW and was watching THIS crap..... I'd probably fancy my chances to strike it rich also.

You Google worst division in boxing and you'll get answers like straw-weight and cruiserweight. But why?

Well it's hard to find Americans that small (straw-weight), and typically there's no interest in seeing these diminutive guys fight. It's unfortunate, because there's pretty good action at these weights. With cruiserweight the answer is even more clear. It's because guys who are that big just fatten up to heavyweight, where the money is. It's open-ended, so they can bulk up as much as they want... hence the existence of fatties. Cruiserweight is no-man's land.

In reality, though, the worst division by far is HW. Especially given the expectations of the general public.

No we need to create a SHW and Whale Weight for "English Hackers".

Blubbery Titty Boys are funny to watch get punched in the tit.

Obviously we can't get rid of the division but I agree with the rest. It has been the worst division for probably a decade. We are finally getting some alright fighters back in the division but definitely not good fighters. Let's look at the top of the division.

We have wlad who is old and I never thought he was that great but he came along at the right time.

Fury isn't very skilled whatsoever. He fought a good fight against wlad but had never really impressed me before that.

Wilder has a good punch and has talent but came very late to the sport and is still raw. He most likely will never really get there.

Ortiz is fine. He probably has the most skill out of the HWs but doesn't seem to get up for fights. He seems to just go through the motions. And coming to America just made him fat.

Joshua seems to have the most promise out of everyone, but I still don't buy in that he will be a great fighter. I think he has the best chance to become the best in the division but will never become anything more than pretty good.

Like I always say, these top HWs are far less skilled and polished than the top fighters in other weight classes.

The HW division has been pretty bad the last few years but right now it's looking as if we would have a very exciting next few years. The HW division is looking to be on agood position now all divisions must of had there bad spells every now and again so no I wouldn't want to see it scrapped

money ruined the HW division

the champion was allowed to cheat because he generated so much money

had he been made to fight with in the rules he would have lost his title long ago and other, more exciting fighters would have pushed through

I understand. I'm getting fed up with the heavyweight prima donnas avoiding each other.

Ortiz avoided Ustinov
Klitschko avoided Joshua
Browne avoided Klitschko and Whyte
Parker avoided Joshua to fight the limited Ruiz for an easy belt
Wilder avoided Povetkin and Ortiz.

The only ones who are willing to fight anybody are Anthony Joshua and Alexander Povetkin. Only interesting fight this year Stiverne-Povetkin, and even that may not happen.

Light heavyweight is much better right now, with Ward-Kovalev, Chilemba-Gvozdyk, Barrera-Shabranskyy, and Smith-Hopkins coming up.

Cruiserweight has good fighters against each other: Lebedev-Gassiev, and Usyk-Glowacki recently. Hopefully Bellew won't avoid the very talented Breidis.

One of the main problems is we were spoilt by the heavyweight division for most of the 70s , 80s and 90s. The purists remember those days well.

Ha ha , this is quite funny because EVERY single generation has said that the current state of the heavyweigh division is the worst it has ever been, and hearkened back to mythical days.

When John L. was the champ, people derided the heavyweight division because they were now fighting with gloves and rules like pussies, and said that the current crop would not have competed with Jem Mace, James Figg or Tom Cribb.

in the 1910's, people said the heavyweight division was so weak that it allowed a black man to become champion because there's were no decent white contenders around any more.

In the 1920's, the world heavyweight champion was a disgraced draft dodger who hardly defended his titles, seemingly more interested in Hollywood and high society. People complained that the division stagnated.

In the 1930's and 1940's, people bitterly complained about the lack of top quality heavyweights around compared to years past. They said that the world heavyweight champion had cleaned out the division and was fighting bums every month. Nobody was any good anymore compared to previous generations.

in the 1950's, people said that the whole heavyweight division was run by the Mob and that fights were fixed. They said decent fighters never got a title shot unless they signed over to the Mafia and that nearly every single fight of any consequence was fixed anyway.

In the 1960's, people lamented the death of the heavyweight division, they said that heavyweights were either too old or too green to become good fighters anymore. Gone were the days when a guy had 50 fights to season themselves before fighting for the title. It was so bad that a skinny young guy with no punch and seriously amateur technique could become world champ by beating some ancient Mob backed guy in a fix.

In the 1970's, I will concede that people didn't complain too much ;D

In the 1980's people said it was the worst ever era of heavyweight boxing. The titles had split and become devalued, and were being passed around from one blubbery undertrained drug addict to another... all of whom were under the control of one promoter anyway. They said that these guys were not athletes and fighters and that old time boxers would be spinning in their graves.

In the 1990's they said that boxing was becoming a minority sport, and the best athletes in America were playing basketball and American football. They said that there were only a couple of half decent fighters out there (but they still couldn't compare to the giants of days past) and they avoided each other and fought non-deserving second raters which only lasted a few rounds anyway. They said the 1990's were the worst era in boxing history.

In the 2000's people bitterly complained about the lack of top quality heavyweights around compared to years past. They said that the world heavyweight champions had cleaned out the division and were fighting bums every month. The top two guys were brothers and wouldn't fight each other, plus they were boring, mechanical and untalented. Nobody was any good anymore compared to previous generations

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme choses. :cool:

Incidentally, in my view, the heavyweight division is probably as deep and competitive as it has ever been, with the possible exception of the 1970's, which was a genuine golden era.

it is definitely in better shape than it was in during the 1980's, which was truly a desolate period.

The 1980s was really bad for the HW division overall, I don't remember it being a golden period of HWs. Now to be fair, there were 2 excellent champions in Holmes and Tyson, but overall it was pretty crappy. The 70s and 90s, imo, were the 2 greatest decades of HW boxing. The 2000s were pretty bad just like many decades in the past minus the 70s and 90s. While Wlad was a dominant champion, the way he fought, which was being scared and the constant clinching really soured the division. If only Vitali was the younger brother and didn't have that injury which made him missed a few years and he reigned instead, the division would have had more respect.

Tito just likes the beer too much

....somebody has been in the Member Berries again ;D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndI9vkgw_1Y



Member when the heavyweight division was amazing, membah? I member!

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Originally Posted by generalbulldog

The 1980s was really bad for the HW division overall, I don't remember it being a golden period of HWs. Now to be fair, there were 2 excellent champions in Holmes and Tyson, but overall it was pretty crappy. The 70s and 90s, imo, were the 2 greatest decades of HW boxing. The 2000s were pretty bad just like many decades in the past minus the 70s and 90s. While Wlad was a dominant champion, the way he fought, which was being scared and the constant clinching really soured the division. If only Vitali was the younger brother and didn't have that injury which made him missed a few years and he reigned instead, the division would have had more respect.

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80s was bad overall agreed but it gave us the awesome Tyson which brought the non-boxing fans through his aura of invincibility


I guess Wlad had an aura of invincibility about him too for ten years but for very different reasons:-\

I agree that the HW division has had some times where there were basically no good fighters, but the difference i see now mainly is that the toughness and dedication is gone compared to times of old. HWs nowadays get fat and don't take the sport seriously. At least decades ago most of these guys were fighting to try to feed their families. There may be more talent now but not as much dedication.

One of the things I've always thought overblown was how 'heavyweight division runs the sport' thinking. That ended long ago with massive expansion and insta click media to follow boxing and gets the best of both positive and negative press. And honestly wonder about the unavoidable internationalization of the division. Majority of 90's save for who..Lewis? or far less Golota melting down like a crayon on a summer sidewalk was American friendly ;D. Even then the two geezers pushing late 40's did prove they earned a spot. Of course being legends helped also, but Foreman and Holmes if briefly merited mention in comebacks. Lack of quality is our own fault with shite Olympic development and the one..Wilder..who got a medal push turns into one of the most protected mothballed prospects turned trinket holders we have seen. I really don't think the division is a total loss but it would benefit in my eye if Wlad just retired already. And Haye for that matter. Or stay retired, I'm confused as to what he is doing now??? Parker, Ortiz, Povetkin, Joshua and Wilder show hope for it. I don't even thing Parker v Hubba Bubba Andy Ruiz is bad and could likely turn into a decent scrap.

Don't like the heavyweight division? Don't fucking watch it. Pretty simple fix

I don't, but thanks for the tip anyway.

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Originally Posted by Freedom

I understand. I'm getting fed up with the heavyweight prima donnas avoiding each other.

Ortiz avoided Ustinov
Klitschko avoided Joshua
Browne avoided Klitschko and Whyte
Parker avoided Joshua to fight the limited Ruiz for an easy belt
Wilder avoided Povetkin and Ortiz.

The only ones who are willing to fight anybody are Anthony Joshua and Alexander Povetkin. Only interesting fight this year Stiverne-Povetkin, and even that may not happen.

Light heavyweight is much better right now, with Ward-Kovalev, Chilemba-Gvozdyk, Barrera-Shabranskyy, and Smith-Hopkins coming up.

Cruiserweight has good fighters against each other: Lebedev-Gassiev, and Usyk-Glowacki recently. Hopefully Bellew won't avoid the very talented Breidis.

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I admire your steadfastness on reporting about the division, though. Being a little optimistic, I'm hoping (chances aren't all that good) that guys like Wilder, AJ, and other up-and-coming heavyweights provide us with the types of fights we haven't seen for decades it seems like. Technically, Wilder isn't up-and-coming anymore.... but he's still a bit raw and needs to polish his skills, regardless of having a championship belt.

Well first off i would do away with mw because that has been a shit division pretty much since Pavlik stop fighting and consider most people are that size never understood why that divisions talent level was so underwhelming. As for why people would watch heavyweight well that pretty simple the hw weight champ can kick everyone ass which appeals to people. The smaller weights some of them are just midgets compared to most people hence no one cares. The heavyweights will never look as good because one punch can end you and when your that big it is hard to look flawless the HW division only had few great eras 70's and 90's rest of it is a great fighter and the gatekeepers pretty much.

I love the HW division, because it tells us who THE baddest man on the planet is. Rigondeaux, Mayweather, Lomanchenko, etc can have all the skill they want, but at the end of the day even a fat mess like Andy Ruiz Jr would punch them through a wall if it came to it.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well first off i would do away with mw because that has been a shit division pretty much since Pavlik stop fighting and consider most people are that size never understood why that divisions talent level was so underwhelming. As for why people would watch heavyweight well that pretty simple the hw weight champ can kick everyone ass which appeals to people. The smaller weights some of them are just midgets compared to most people hence no one cares. The heavyweights will never look as good because one punch can end you and when your that big it is hard to look flawless the HW division only had few great eras 70's and 90's rest of it is a great fighter and the gatekeepers pretty much.

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The MW division has had its underwhelming eras to be sure. But like you said and it's a good point... most people are close to that size... and that in itself is the reason why historically there have been many great MW champions and fighters. I suspect in the future we'll have more great MW champions to cheer for. Those midgets at the lower weights get a raw deal because most guys don't walk around at 120 or below. And yet there is great talent there. Plus you have guys like Chocolatito, who packs a huge punch for such a little guy. It's all relative. I think the people that are obsessed with the HW's are mostly casual fans who like you say... just want to see someone knock someone else's block off. However, it's the division where guys get away with less skill because they're so big and powerful and can end a fight with one punch. I wouldn't mind it if the fighters were better... but it's been a looooong time since fans were truly excited about anything regarding the HW division.

Well the thing is i look at skill a lot different from the hw to the smaller weights because when you are below fw just easier for you to move and look fluid with it. HW it is hard to look like that and regardless of talent when your 230 plus and get hit your tech and talent goes out the door. Lennox Lewis is one of the greatest fighters to ever step in the ring yet he has loses to McCall and Rahman hw hard even if guy you face is less talented fighters then you. My first fight was Holyfeild and Tyson and Holyfeild my favorite fighter period so most of the time i get more hyped on hw even if it has been a bit lame because the division has so much history for me watched it my whole life.

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Originally Posted by Mr140

Well the thing is i look at skill a lot different from the hw to the smaller weights because when you are below fw just easier for you to move and look fluid with it. HW it is hard to look like that and regardless of talent when your 230 plus and get hit your tech and talent goes out the door. Lennox Lewis is one of the greatest fighters to ever step in the ring yet he has loses to McCall and Rahman hw hard even if guy you face is less talented fighters then you. My first fight was Holyfeild and Tyson and Holyfeild my favorite fighter period so most of the time i get more hyped on hw even if it has been a bit lame because the division has so much history for me watched it my whole life.

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Yes I agree. A HW should never be held to the same standards of skill and fluidity of the lower weights. There's a reason why we don't see any 230lb gymnasts, and conversely why we don't see any 147 linebackers.

Boxing is a strange beast in that we have 300lb butterballs competing in the same sport (often times on the same card) as 105lb waifs. We don't really get to see that in any other sport, so the comparison doesn't get made.