Who disgraced boxing more: Clinch-ko or Chicken Floyd?

These are my two least favorite fighters and I blame both of them in large part for doing horrible damage to boxing.

Chicken Floyd was very talented but his greatest talent was fighting the right guys at the right time. Ran away from Pac until he was sure he was washed up, and even then had to cheat to win with that shoulder injection and denying Pac one. Fought in a scared way and bored the general public to tears.

Clinch-ko fought everyone and didn't duck like Floyd, but he fought like a scared man, bored everyone to tears and completely killed the HW division, which is supposed to be boxing's money division.

They were both so dreadful they made the great champions of the past ashamed they were ever involved in boxing.

Which one do you think disgraced boxing more?

EDIT: In terms of their in-ring performances. Outside the ring, there is no question who has the better character between the two! ;D

Being from Michigan I actually met Floyd a couple of times briefly and was a fan of his early on. He is actually (or at least was) a nice guy in person, so that swayed my vote to Clinch-ko

Inside the ring? Floyds fights were very shit, boring, and his lack of willingness to fight made them very frustrating

he did just enough in rounds most of the time but he did box within the rules

Floyd "ran" more than he punched - avoiding punches on the back foot excessively is allowed

wlad held and leaned on more than he punched - holding and leaning is against the rules

who is more of a disgrace outside the ring is a totally different question

If we are being honest, Mike Tyson is more of a disgrace to boxing than either of them.However, he was much more exciting to watch and thus we fans like him better than these two.

I was only thinking in terms of inside the ring.

If we counted outside the ring, it would be no contest! ;D

Floyd is a woman-beating dirt bag, Wlad is an educated gentleman by all accounts.

Floyd is skilled but chose his opponents to keep his 0 than really be a true ATG. Protecting that 0 means everything to him and makes him think that makes him TBE. When it does not at all.

Neither is a disgrace in the ring. They are what they are. Wlad did a lot of holding but his opponents were horrible so they couldn't overcome it. If wlad had to fight good fighters then he would have lost more often and we wouldn't be talking about him.

People forget that Floyd didn't always fight like he did late in his career. He was more aggressive at lower weights and at a younger age. Once he went up and got older, he changed his style which wasn't as fan friendly.

So in the ring, neither were a disgrace. Floyd ruined things more because of the whole PPV stuff that just keeps creating PPVs.

I used to like floyd and hate klitchsko and somewhere along the way, that was flipped.

I'll precursor this by saying its hard to judge solely on inside the ring. With regards to how a person does things outside the ring, I'm not talking about the domestic abuse, or the tax evasion stuff, or stuff in someones personal life. But I will include how a person conducts themselves regarding the sport outside the ring. That includes negotiating, promoting, and interviews etc.

With that said I pick Floyd. He used to be one of my favorite fighters. Fast hands, decent pop at the lighter weights and good footwork and stayed calm and could outthink his opponents. Then as he went up in weight he looked for any advantage possible (weight on marquez, gloves on maidana, some would say age on Pac --though i had him picked to win even if they fought back then because of pacs predictability, --and more) I can allow the head games on 24/7 as fighters throughout history have done (except for the racial epitaphs which were just added for shock value associated publicity). The biggest offense here was his attempt to make boxing his private playground. He didn't give a damn about fans or the sport or any of the other stuff he claimed. He did this purely for profit. He took personas from the biggest names in other sports emulated and magnified it to boost his personal publicity to gain the popular vote. He used that to manipulate sanctioning bodies, networks, and other players in the sport into letting him skew the playing field. He was a professional cheat, protecting a fabled "0" in the loss column. He fought smart for someone with no pop at the higher weights, but he fought with little honor as his selection of opponents, his cheating before the fight even started, the drug test demands etc were all just ways to keep the wins going and keeping his marketability profitable. This is his legacy and it has tainted many of the fighters that are left. It can already be seen in other fighters demanding more than their worth, splitting hairs over weights (the 155 lb division), demanding drug tests of people their afraid of. Pussing out on rematches or creating obstacles to the fight for the sake of letting things "marinate"... All of this is under the guise of fighters suddenly coming to the epiphany that the should be paid millions of dollars for 2 months of work (1hr of work if you only count the event) because they're risking their health.

Truthfully risking your health by getting punched in the head for various amounts of money is an apple to oranges comparison. If your health was that important, you wouldn't be risking that damage for any amount of money and You're in the wrong sport. You have no business calling it the "hurt game" if you are playing it like the "get hurt" game. The guys that have done it and have been the best ever, have won and lost on a champion's heart and a warriors spirit... not a lawyer, not prefight stipulations, not money or ppv buys. As long as today's fighters follow his lead, we will continue to see more or this crap continue through the sport. Look at the danny jacobs situation. A fighter than hasn't accomplished a lot, had his clock cleaned before, but wants to rewrite the rules/ percentages on how much he should receive for his shot at the brass ring after postponing his shot for a year because he wants ready for it yet. Yet, he believes his color is the reason he doesn't get enough accolades. Robinson would have fought for the predetermined rate, and wrote his own check every fight afterwards. Jacobs appears to be negotiating his price for losing... These are the types of fighters the money legacy breeds.

When it comes to Klitchsko, he's had his bell run several times. I wont include claims that he lost the brewster fight due to some kind of conspiracy, I can recall if he subscribed to fix theories- "vaseline clogged his pores and killed his stamina". Aside from that his fights were never barn burners, and it was fairly obvious he was trying to avoid taking shots because his probably had doubts about his beard. His conservative style was not based on protecting a zero and he managed a number of KO's and avenged a loss... but i still think his effort against fury could have been better than staring and flinching. I think many people feel that he had the physical gifts to be a monster. Perhaps with such an opposing size, he just needed the heart of evander, the ferocity of Tyson and ring generalship of Ali. I prefer to see it this way. Like many other fighters, he was what he was... he was successful (but overly grabby) because he was protecting his chin... He had a better trainer and listened to the game plan. He had a simple advantage over most heavyweights in that he was in better shape than 98% of the division but i don't blame him as much as i blame a heavyweight division that lived at IHOP most of the time.

I saw Floyd on Instagram today calling McGregor "The Notorious Quitter" and "Connor Mc-Tap-Out"

My type of thread.

Floyd is boxing.

Retired for over a year and everyone is still begging for him to comeback.

The guy is past it..let him enjoy retirement.

Anyone who says Floyd runs just doesn't know boxing.

As for Wlad, I'm not a fan of his fighting style but his reign as champion has to be respected and the way he carries himself outside of the ring is quality..no prison time and certainly no past women issues..I like Wlad as a person but his style is effective but boring (imo)

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Originally Posted by Pastor John

I saw Floyd on Instagram today calling McGregor "The Notorious Quitter" and "Connor Mc-Tap-Out"

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Connor is a great fighter but just like Duran he knows when to quit.
(Flame suit)

No one is begging for Floyd to come back. He is manufacturing a comeback fight and trying to stay relevant.

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Originally Posted by powerpuncher

Neither is a disgrace in the ring. They are what they are. Wlad did a lot of holding but his opponents were horrible so they couldn't overcome it. If wlad had to fight good fighters then he would have lost more often and we wouldn't be talking about him.

People forget that Floyd didn't always fight like he did late in his career. He was more aggressive at lower weights and at a younger age. Once he went up and got older, he changed his style which wasn't as fan friendly.

So in the ring, neither were a disgrace. Floyd ruined things more because of the whole PPV stuff that just keeps creating PPVs.

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I agree powerpuncher, but Floyd never ruined things for himself with all the PPV stuff.

He used his brain to generate more money for himself and his family and I think if we were in the same position we would do the same.

Floyd vs Pac was one of the worst PPV I have ever seen, but on the flip side both these guys risked their life's to fight each other and what price can you put on that..(at that level)

Boxers risk their health and lives ever time they step in the ring but they know that when they get in the ring. Do not use that to justify the poor match between Floyd v Manny, 5 years past its sell by date.

Shockingly poor value fight ever.

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Originally Posted by Master

Boxers risk their health and lives ever time they step in the ring but they know that when they get in the ring. Do not use that to justify the poor match between Floyd v Manny, 5 years past its sell by date.

Shockingly poor value fight ever.

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Floyd was like the cowardly kid who waited for his friends to jump into the water before he would so he knew it wasn't too cold ;D

He waited until Pac hadn't KO'd anyone in years and was no longer the killer he was in 2008. He waited until much lesser fighters were fighting Pac and surviving. Then and only then he agreed to the fight.

If the fight happened in 2008 I think Pac KO's him... and I'm from Floyd's home town! ;D

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Originally Posted by Master

No one is begging for Floyd to come back. He is manufacturing a comeback fight and trying to stay relevant.

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YOU'RE Begging him to come back! Tick Tock! ;D

Each is or was successful by our own fault to a large degree. I save all blame for disgracing the sport for the ever faithful and all too consistent blind-corrupt judges. Also for promoters who push garbage mismatches.

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Originally Posted by vidgil

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Originally Posted by Master

Boxers risk their health and lives ever time they step in the ring but they know that when they get in the ring. Do not use that to justify the poor match between Floyd v Manny, 5 years past its sell by date.

Shockingly poor value fight ever.

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Floyd was like the cowardly kid who waited for his friends to jump into the water before he would so he knew it wasn't too cold ;D

He waited until Pac hadn't KO'd anyone in years and was no longer the killer he was in 2008. He waited until much lesser fighters were fighting Pac and surviving. Then and only then he agreed to the fight.

If the fight happened in 2008 I think Pac KO's him... and I'm from Floyd's home town! ;D

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You still think it was floyds fault? Even after pac was obviously lying the whole time?

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Originally Posted by vidgil

These are my two least favorite fighters and I blame both of them in large part for doing horrible damage to boxing.

Chicken Floyd was very talented but his greatest talent was fighting the right guys at the right time. Ran away from Pac until he was sure he was washed up, and even then had to cheat to win with that shoulder injection and denying Pac one. Fought in a scared way and bored the general public to tears.

Clinch-ko fought everyone and didn't duck like Floyd, but he fought like a scared man, bored everyone to tears and completely killed the HW division, which is supposed to be boxing's money division.

They were both so dreadful they made the great champions of the past ashamed they were ever involved in boxing.

Which one do you think disgraced boxing more?

EDIT: In terms of their in-ring performances. Outside the ring, there is no question who has the better character between the two! ;D

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There is not even a sliver of a doubt of what you say: they both indeed totally disgraced the sport of boxing for far too long. What a refreshing thing it was when Floyd retired and Fury embarrassed Wlad. It gave boxing a new life.

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Originally Posted by vidgil

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Originally Posted by Master

Boxers risk their health and lives ever time they step in the ring but they know that when they get in the ring. Do not use that to justify the poor match between Floyd v Manny, 5 years past its sell by date.

Shockingly poor value fight ever.

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Floyd was like the cowardly kid who waited for his friends to jump into the water before he would so he knew it wasn't too cold ;D

He waited until Pac hadn't KO'd anyone in years and was no longer the killer he was in 2008. He waited until much lesser fighters were fighting Pac and surviving. Then and only then he agreed to the fight.

If the fight happened in 2008 I think Pac KO's him... and I'm from Floyd's home town! ;D

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Your confused.

Hate to drag up old news but there's a video with Freddie roach where he openly admits the reason the first fight never took place was because Pac never agreed to testing in the week of the fight.

That's old news anyway..Pac lost the fight..it's over now.

"Who disgraced boxing more" and "Who was worse for boxing" are two questions with entirely different answers for me.

Who disgraced boxing more?

Well, if we're talking about disgracing boxing, we have to go outside the ring and look at their behavior. I don't think anyone's got qualms with Wlad's behavior outside of boxing. One could say he was sort of an ambassador to the sport. Well-educated, well-mannered, mostly free of scandals and foolish or illegal behavior. Never been arrested that I know of. Floyd on the other hand, has had all kinds of legal and behavior problems, mostly very well documented. So this is a slam dunk for me. If we're talking disgracing the sport of boxing, I'd have to go with Floyd.

Who has been worse for boxing?

Another slam dunk, but in the other direction. Love Floyd or hate him, he's been true to his style of fighting since Day One. Now THAT'S a perfectionist in the art of hitting and not getting hit. He may piss people off by the way he is, but he is/was the consummate boxer. The shoulder rolls, the adapting of his style to his opponent, the alternating between offense and defense, his mastery of the ring. It may not be pretty to some, but he plied his craft well. People accuse him of ducking fighters like Margacheato. Why on Earth would Floyd have to get in the ring with #1 a well-known cheater, and #2 a guy who outweighs him by a bunch, and probably would even more on fight night? Just cause Pacquiao (bless his soul) got in the ring with Cheato and busted his eye socket ;D doesn't mean Floyd was obligated to do the same thing. So to the detractors of Floyd, this ducking business is a bit mild and overstated. He fought some very big names, at some very good times. He def should've faced Pac earlier in his career, but it is what it is. I don't think boxing was any worse off because of Floyd. Now Wlad, on the other hand, single-handedly brought down the HW division. After getting KTFO'ed a few times early on, he changed his style to one of a scared rabbit. He clinched, he mauled, he fouled, he did everything possible to turn every single goddamn HW title fight into a boring, exasperating spectacle. The examples are too many. Sultan, Haye, Povetkin, Fury..... all were forgettable, mostly because of Wlad's reluctance to engage. So who was worse for boxing? Without a doubt...... Wlad.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

"Who disgraced boxing more" and "Who was worse for boxing" are two questions with entirely different answers for me.

Who disgraced boxing more?

Well, if we're talking about disgracing boxing, we have to go outside the ring and look at their behavior. I don't think anyone's got qualms with Wlad's behavior outside of boxing. One could say he was sort of an ambassador to the sport. Well-educated, well-mannered, mostly free of scandals and foolish or illegal behavior. Never been arrested that I know of. Floyd on the other hand, has had all kinds of legal and behavior problems, mostly very well documented. So this is a slam dunk for me. If we're talking disgracing the sport of boxing, I'd have to go with Floyd.

Who has been worse for boxing?

Another slam dunk, but in the other direction. Love Floyd or hate him, he's been true to his style of fighting since Day One. Now THAT'S a perfectionist in the art of hitting and not getting hit. He may piss people off by the way he is, but he is/was the consummate boxer. The shoulder rolls, the adapting of his style to his opponent, the alternating between offense and defense, his mastery of the ring. It may not be pretty to some, but he plied his craft well. People accuse him of ducking fighters like Margacheato. Why on Earth would Floyd have to get in the ring with #1 a well-known cheater, and #2 a guy who outweighs him by a bunch, and probably would even more on fight night? Just cause Pacquiao (bless his soul) got in the ring with Cheato and busted his eye socket ;D doesn't mean Floyd was obligated to do the same thing. So to the detractors of Floyd, this ducking business is a bit mild and overstated. He fought some very big names, at some very good times. He def should've faced Pac earlier in his career, but it is what it is. I don't think boxing was any worse off because of Floyd. Now Wlad, on the other hand, single-handedly brought down the HW division. After getting KTFO'ed a few times early on, he changed his style to one of a scared rabbit. He clinched, he mauled, he fouled, he did everything possible to turn every single goddamn HW title fight into a boring, exasperating spectacle. The examples are too many. Sultan, Haye, Povetkin, Fury..... all were forgettable, mostly because of Wlad's reluctance to engage. So who was worse for boxing? Without a doubt...... Wlad.

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I would have loved to see a prime Tito get his hands on Floyd.

Floyd has the most boring number ppv fights in the history of the sport. Therefore it is the money man. Floyd is just waiting and hoping people will forget the dull fights he has had so that they can buy his next 50th one.

Floyd is the hoping "you all must have forgot"

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Originally Posted by Master

Floyd has the most boring number ppv fights in the history of the sport. Therefore it is the money man. Floyd is just waiting and hoping people will forget the dull fights he has had so that they can buy his next 50th one.

Floyd is the hoping "you all must have forgot"

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Buying a Floyd PPV is like going to a nice restaurant, ordering your food and the server comes out, drops trow and pinches a loaf right on your plate!

I've never paid to see a Floyd fight and never would! Horrible value for your buck

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Originally Posted by vidgil

I would have loved to see a prime Tito get his hands on Floyd.

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Tito doesn't even connect with Floyd. Floyd was too quick, too good on his feet, and too smart to let Tito even land.

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

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Originally Posted by vidgil

I would have loved to see a prime Tito get his hands on Floyd.

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Tito doesn't even connect with Floyd. Floyd was too quick, too good on his feet, and too smart to let Tito even land.

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Over 12 rounds Trinidad will land. Also doesn't have to worry about much coming back in the way of power.
Prime Trinidad was light-years better than Canelo, and even Canelo managed to land one or two the whole fight.

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Originally Posted by ruthless rocco

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Originally Posted by vidgil

I would have loved to see a prime Tito get his hands on Floyd.

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Tito doesn't even connect with Floyd. Floyd was too quick, too good on his feet, and too smart to let Tito even land.

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Tito would never land because Floyd would never fight him ;D

Otherwise he'd get put to sleep by one of those left hooks.

Even washed up Mosley had Floyd dancing like a fish!

If Tito landed then Floyd would be wobbling and for anyone mentioning Oscar, they should remember he was taller and stronger than Floyd was.

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Originally Posted by Master

If Tito landed then Floyd would be wobbling and for anyone mentioning Oscar, they should remember he was taller and stronger than Floyd was.

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If a washed up, drunk, cocaine-abusing, cross dressing Oscar could almost beat Floyd, I can only imagine what he would have done to Floyd if he was closer to his prime!

Come to think of it, Chicken Floyd always seemed to have a problem with men who wear women's panties. Chop Chop Corley also had him hurt bad in their fight! ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyDlsOO98A