These Panto match ups have to stop!

It's about time the governing bodies fucking grew a pair. How can you sanction meaningless bullshit fights like Canelo v Khan, Brook v GGG and Bellew v Haye? These fights are made for money and money only. They do absolutely fuck all for the sport.
And what is even more disturbing is that fans are accepting it . Basically anyone who paid for tonight is a mug, and anyone who paid for tonight and is happy with what they got is watching the wrong sport. It's getting more like Wrestling every fucking day.
With the exception of old Ginge and his cross dressing promoter , it's the Brits who are guilty of these joke fights. To be be fair to the Yanks, you've got a genuine 50/50 unification fight tonight between Garcia and Thurman, and it doesn't get half the exposure because they haven't thrown tables at each other!
You have to seriously ask yourself, are you interested in Boxing as a sport, or more interested in the hype that surrounds it?

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

It's about time the governing bodies fucking grew a pair. How can you sanction meaningless bullshit fights like Canelo v Khan, Brook v GGG and Bellew v Haye? These fights are made for money and money only. They do absolutely fuck all for the sport.
And what is even more disturbing is that fans are accepting it . Basically anyone who paid for tonight is a mug, and anyone who paid for tonight and is happy with what they got is watching the wrong sport. It's getting more like Wrestling every fucking day.
With the exception of old Ginge and his cross dressing promoter , it's the Brits who are guilty of these joke fights. To be be fair to the Yanks, you've got a genuine 50/50 unification fight tonight between Garcia and Thurman, and it doesn't get half the exposure because they haven't thrown tables at each other!
You have to seriously ask yourself, are you interested in Boxing as a sport, or more interested in the hype that surrounds it?

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Only problem is that the result of tonight's match up will be seen as a reason for the mismatches to continue, if Bellew would have been brutally KO'd in the first then maybe people would have said 'I'm getting a wee bit tired of this' but now that Bellew has won it'll always be referred back to as a victory for the little guy and used as a justification for the mismatches.

Big matches are hyped up but these are simply manufactured mis matches and will not stop because people buy them in bucketloads

It is called prize fighting for a reason. From the very bottom rungs of the sport to the top there has always been and always will be mismatches, bad decisions, robberies and pantomine fights. Thinking otherwise actually demonstrates a lack of insight into how boxing works. At the lower levels in amateur contests it is sometimes hard to match make with a limited pool of fighters willing to come and risk their records at your club/region/association and so mismatches often happen where someone in a different league blows away their opponent and robberies where the house fighter is given the decision over the traveling fighter, either because of ineptitude, random interpretation or outright favoritism happen regularly.Sanctioning bodies do not co-operate from different countries and your dumb idea that it is the Brits who are guilty of these charades and not the Americans based on one night of boxing smacks of self depreciation or loathing in an effort to appear fair. Seriously huge over compensation.Despite how Boxing operates the British Domestic scene at the upper end of the amateurs and pros is and always has been ultra competitive. Iaminuit (God rest his blessed soul) often used to comment on it, and he was not alone in tuning in from abroad to watch UK cards stacked with genuine 50/50 fights. There are numerous protected American prospects who have fought anyone including the local dustman to avoid a meaningful challenge and plenty of Pantomine fights where 'world champions' have yet to fight outside of their comfort zone.Not every fight can be a decider to see who the best in a weight division might be, or two thin out and exclude the best from a pool of excellence. It is an inexact blend of science, art, sport, will power. show business, sheer bloody mindedness and inspiration that allows us all the privilege to witness the entire gamut from one extreme to the other. It is not just another sport and any move to sanitize and codify it in a manner that will neuter or censor it should be vehemently opposed. It is one of the least sanitized and most organic spectacles one can witness and whilst I have not see tonight's latest debacle I can not imagine it to be any worse than many that have gone before or may happen after.It's madness. You can't logically defend it in anyway and that is why we love it. Spectator, supporter, participant , trainer, manager, promoter etc all realise this at a very deep and innate level and so it will go on...despite everything. And thank God for that

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Originally Posted by Primo Carnera

It's about time the governing bodies fucking grew a pair. How can you sanction meaningless bullshit fights like Canelo v Khan, Brook v GGG and Bellew v Haye? These fights are made for money and money only. They do absolutely fuck all for the sport.
And what is even more disturbing is that fans are accepting it . Basically anyone who paid for tonight is a mug, and anyone who paid for tonight and is happy with what they got is watching the wrong sport. It's getting more like Wrestling every fucking day.
With the exception of old Ginge and his cross dressing promoter , it's the Brits who are guilty of these joke fights. To be be fair to the Yanks, you've got a genuine 50/50 unification fight tonight between Garcia and Thurman, and it doesn't get half the exposure because they haven't thrown tables at each other!
You have to seriously ask yourself, are you interested in Boxing as a sport, or more interested in the hype that surrounds it?

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Have you heard yourself? ;D

We got an interesting and eventful fight, which had more than enough drama. I think anorak boxing fans don't like admitting enjoying these kind of match ups because it makes them look like a casual. The hype around the fight has been fun. So what if the overall importance of it is completely manufactured.

I agree on the GGG - Brook and Canelo - Khan side of the argument because the size and ability advantage was far too heavily in the favour of the obvious winner, but tonight's fight had a sense of intrigue, and at around the 6 round mark was taking shape. Having said that, i'd imagine folk still enjoyed the GGG - Brook match up more than they've enjoyed him fighting punching bags. That's where your anger should lie....in supposedly world class fighters repeatedly avoiding challenges. I understand there's a link and the fighters get away with it because of the fans willingness to part with their cash, but tonight wasn't about that at all. Haye (who let's not forget has hardly been a career Heavyweight) was fighting a current Crusierweight World Champion after a period of severe inactivity. Bellew was fighting a former undisputed Crusierweight Champion and a former Heavyweight champion supposedly on the comeback trail. The match up was fine on paper (not 50-50, but no more one sided than 95% of all match ups) and it was better than expected in the ring.

In closing, Garcia and Thurman would have ridiculous hype if they were both English and weren't fighting in the middle of the fucking night. Nothing to do table throwing. Chisora threw a table at Klitschko and i don't remember anyone giving a fuck about that fight.

Good post Beanz but I think it is the fact that the biggest UK fights over the last 12 months or so have been Khan and ginger pubes, Brook and GGG and Bellew v haye.

They are not just mismatches they are people moving up 2 weights in some cases.

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Originally Posted by Master

Big matches are hyped up but these are simply manufactured mis matches and will not stop because people buy them in bucketloads

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A mismatch which the underdog won in the 11th round?

The fight was easily close enough before the injury. Acting like the fight was Pac -Algieri mark 2 ;D

I agree, Primo. I refused to even find a way to watch the Haye fight for free as it's wrong to endorse mismatches and despite the result, I still think it was a mismatch. Apparently Haye was winning, got injured and Bellew took advantage. Sounds more of a circus than anything. The thing is if you criticize it and call people mugs for buying into it, then you get called a cunt and not a boxing fan by those who seem to enjoy 20 predictable circus events just to occasionally have the penguin peck on the lame tiger. You are right, GGG/Brook and Khan/Canelo were exactly the same and 4 of the 6 fighters were Brits, suggesting that they do like to be mugged. It isn't good for the sport and there are far better fights like the next one we have coming up today.

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Originally Posted by Batman

Good post Beanz but I think it is the fact that the biggest UK fights over the last 12 months or so have been Khan and ginger pubes, Brook and GGG and Bellew v haye.

They are not just mismatches they are people moving up 2 weights in some cases.

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Maybe, just maybe, if the boxing world didn't react so hysterically to a defeat, the best would fight the best more often. ;D

;D;D Basically what Ono said. He speaks for every person I know. Normal people you know ;)

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Originally Posted by ryanman

;D;D Basically what Ono said. He speaks for every person I know. Normal people you know ;)

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Thank you. Everyone's acting like we've paid £50 quid to watch Shannon Briggs fight Roy Jones Jr.

Miles there is a reason it sounds like a circus. Caravans? Booths? It's not supposed to be no running in the corridor and make sure you are all wearing bow ties.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by ryanman

;D;D Basically what Ono said. He speaks for every person I know. Normal people you know ;)

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Thank you. Everyone's acting like we've paid £50 quid to watch Shannon Briggs fight Roy Jones Jr.

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It's a farce we all take part in. Djok, Nadal, Murray, Fed all lose every other other week.

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by ryanman

;D;D Basically what Ono said. He speaks for every person I know. Normal people you know ;)

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Thank you. Everyone's acting like we've paid £50 quid to watch Shannon Briggs fight Roy Jones Jr.

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It's a farce we all take part in. Djok, Nadal, Murray, Fed all lose every other other week.

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Talking about boxing and tennis in the same sentence? Wash your mouth out :-P

well on paper cruiserweight champion moving up to fight a former cruiserweight champ at heavyweight isn't that bad, I don't see why a governing body would not allow this :S..

It can be freaky and fun, but I don't want to see fights like this, Beanz. I think especially for fans that often pay good money to see a fight, they deserve the highest quality possible. Mind you, I will try and watch it now to find out what the fuss was all about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrDVsprWRCQ

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Originally Posted by palmerq

well on paper cruiserweight champion moving up to fight a former cruiserweight champ at heavyweight isn't that bad, I don't see why a governing body would not allow this :S..

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on paper --- good one ;)

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by ryanman

;D;D Basically what Ono said. He speaks for every person I know. Normal people you know ;)

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Thank you. Everyone's acting like we've paid £50 quid to watch Shannon Briggs fight Roy Jones Jr.

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It's a farce we all take part in. Djok, Nadal, Murray, Fed all lose every other other week.

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Talking about boxing and tennis in the same sentence? Wash your mouth out :-P

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Yeah I take that. But really a loss shouldn't mean anything. The '0' in boxing is silly and has become damaging. It's a crass comparison but you get what i'm shooting at.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

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Originally Posted by palmerq

well on paper cruiserweight champion moving up to fight a former cruiserweight champ at heavyweight isn't that bad, I don't see why a governing body would not allow this :S..

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on paper --- good one ;)

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Watch it KGB. Walk the line.

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by Beanz

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Originally Posted by ryanman

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by ryanman

;D;D Basically what Ono said. He speaks for every person I know. Normal people you know ;)

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Thank you. Everyone's acting like we've paid £50 quid to watch Shannon Briggs fight Roy Jones Jr.

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It's a farce we all take part in. Djok, Nadal, Murray, Fed all lose every other other week.

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Talking about boxing and tennis in the same sentence? Wash your mouth out :-P

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Yeah I take that. But really a loss shouldn't mean anything. The '0' in boxing is silly and has become damaging. It's a crass comparison but you get what i'm shooting at.

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Yes the 0 thing seems to be a fairly recent aberration and I blame Floyd, JC (The Welsh one not the Hebrew) and Trump.

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Originally Posted by palmerq

well on paper cruiserweight champion moving up to fight a former cruiserweight champ at heavyweight isn't that bad, I don't see why a governing body would not allow this :S..

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It was an exciting fight. I don't get the hate.

Yes but you have to love when it blows up in the favorites face yes? Long time fans know what it is prior but ultimately if a "big" star can put cheeks in seats then these types of matches..events..are timeless. It's when people start drinking the kool aid and it becomes the norm for a fighter. It's not like Haye ko's Bellew in 2 and fans start thinking it means much. Honestly same with Khan and that lil red headed shit talking fella. The sport has always been a traveling circus. Now the rankings and sanctioning are entirely different point but again we've known for decades to take the legitimacy with a grain of salt and don't always 'buy' what the men with blindfolds and dart boards are using to rank fighters. Briggs and Oquendo fighting for a strap shortly. Maybe this speaks to the divisions carnival as well. Call bs when you see it. Good thing we have two of the best undefeated welters fighting tonight ;D. Crickets :-X

longing for the good times is schmaltz. These are the prize fights we have. Could be worse.

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Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust

longing for the good times is schmaltz. These are the prize fights we have. Could be worse.

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Watch it KGB.
:biker::biker:

On you.

Great thread. Sad that people defend the circus. At the highest levels there should be the highest levels of competition.

I joined Gandalf in not even watching the circus for free. I watched the real fight.

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Great thread. Sad that people defend the circus. At the highest levels there should be the highest levels of competition.

I joined Gandalf in not even watching the circus for free. I watched the real fight.

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The circus and the field were there long before the gym so you can get on your high horse but the view is not the same from up there

These panto matchups have to stop ?

" OH NO THEY SHOULDNT ".

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Originally Posted by dark lord al

these panto matchups have to stop ?

" oh no they shouldnt ".

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'' oh yes they should ''

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Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

These panto matchups have to stop ?

" OH NO THEY SHOULDNT ".

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;D

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Great thread. Sad that people defend the circus. At the highest levels there should be the highest levels of competition.

I joined Gandalf in not even watching the circus for free. I watched the real fight.

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The one where both men refused to fight - utter shite/snoozefest Thurman v Garcia and they were booed from midway non stop until the end.

Haye v Bellew entertained, had loads of Drama and the crowd loved it.

I know which one i'd rather watch miss match or not

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Originally Posted by Beanz

It is called prize fighting for a reason. From the very bottom rungs of the sport to the top there has always been and always will be mismatches, bad decisions, robberies and pantomine fights. Thinking otherwise actually demonstrates a lack of insight into how boxing works. At the lower levels in amateur contests it is sometimes hard to match make with a limited pool of fighters willing to come and risk their records at your club/region/association and so mismatches often happen where someone in a different league blows away their opponent and robberies where the house fighter is given the decision over the traveling fighter, either because of ineptitude, random interpretation or outright favoritism happen regularly.

Sanctioning bodies do not co-operate from different countries and your dumb idea that it is the Brits who are guilty of these charades and not the Americans based on one night of boxing smacks of self depreciation or loathing in an effort to appear fair. Seriously huge over compensation.

Despite how Boxing operates the British Domestic scene at the upper end of the amateurs and pros is and always has been ultra competitive. Iaminuit (God rest his blessed soul) often used to comment on it, and he was not alone in tuning in from abroad to watch UK cards stacked with genuine 50/50 fights.

There are numerous protected American prospects who have fought anyone including the local dustman to avoid a meaningful challenge and plenty of Pantomine fights where 'world champions' have yet to fight outside of their comfort zone. Not every fight can be a decider to see who the best in a weight division might be, or two thin out and exclude the best from a pool of excellence.

It is an inexact blend of science, art, sport, will power, show business, sheer bloody mindedness and inspiration that allows us all the privilege to witness the entire gamut from one extreme to the other. It is not just another sport and any move to sanitize and codify it in a manner that will neuter or censor it should be vehemently opposed. It is one of the least sanitized and most organic spectacles one can witness.

And whilst I have not see tonight's latest debacle I can not imagine it to be any worse than many that have gone before or may happen after. It's madness. You can't logically defend it in anyway and that is why we love it. Spectator, supporter, participant , trainer, manager, promoter etc all realise this at a very deep and innate level and so it will go on...despite everything. And thank God for that

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Very well said.

Far from a debacle, the so-called "mismatch" produced a HUGE upset and a supposed "lily-livered fake celebrity boxer" showed incredible courage beyond the call of duty.

Your post captured it perfectly. Pure madness.

They were both good fights. The Haye one more because you didn't expect the leg to go like that. I really expected a missmatch. Didn't consider Hayes injuries, age and inactivity. I should have. The mug was me.

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Originally Posted by ono

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Originally Posted by palmerq

well on paper cruiserweight champion moving up to fight a former cruiserweight champ at heavyweight isn't that bad, I don't see why a governing body would not allow this :S..

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It was an exciting fight. I don't get the hate.

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It was exciting , absolutely. But that was nothing to do with any boxing skill, it was a bizarre set of circumstances .As for Hate, I don't hate. Like I said in the OP, if you want to spend your money happily watching farces that have virtually nothing to do with Boxing, try WWE . That should satisfy your desire for "Excitement"
PPV's should be for the BIG Matchups in the sport.
But like I said, spend your well earned however you want.

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Originally Posted by smashup

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Great thread. Sad that people defend the circus. At the highest levels there should be the highest levels of competition.

I joined Gandalf in not even watching the circus for free. I watched the real fight.

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The one where both men refused to fight - utter shite/snoozefest Thurman v Garcia and they were booed from midway non stop until the end.

Haye v Bellew entertained, had loads of Drama and the crowd loved it.

I know which one i'd rather watch miss match or not

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Yes, you're the target audience. The drama, the trash talk. I'm not the target audience, I prefer the sport of sport. I know I'll always be in the minority. But someone should speak up for sport because we know the crowds will always speak with their money for empty bluster.

I think that there is a place for sideshows in this sport. The place though is on free TV. I just can't fathom why anybody would pay money to see haye and bellew fight. It makes absolutely no sense. I understand if it's free. That's fine.

I don't like any PPV, but at least when the best fights the best, it's entertaining. It's very rare that I see two good fighters fight and I don't enjoy the match thoroughly. I just love watching smart boxing with each fighter adjusting.

Maybe I'm just different, but I like boxing for the boxing. Trash talk can definitely help, but that alone doesn't matter. I'm way more into good fights being made. I would never spend money for good trash talk, but I would be willing to spend money on good craft.

the boxing stars are the all corupt and black markiting in the sports feild

Without the majority spending money on "empty bluster" we wouldn't have a sport. It needs characters, stories, pantomime villains, razzmatazz and the occasional lunacy to constantly draw new fans in.

The Haye-Bellew fight made mainstream news in the UK, front and back page. And boxing fans around the world were gripped by it too (listen to American boxing podcasts like Steve Kim's The Next Round, or read Doug Fischer's mail bag in The Ring).

Britain has a dozen (?) "world" champions yet no silly alphabet or bogus "world" title was needed to engross the "casual" (general public) or the hardcore (nerds) just a good old fashion prize fight, a battle between two men to settle their differences. Terrific.

Long live the "mugs!!!"

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

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Originally Posted by smashup

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Originally Posted by Ron Swanson

Great thread. Sad that people defend the circus. At the highest levels there should be the highest levels of competition.

I joined Gandalf in not even watching the circus for free. I watched the real fight.

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The one where both men refused to fight - utter shite/snoozefest Thurman v Garcia and they were booed from midway non stop until the end.

Haye v Bellew entertained, had loads of Drama and the crowd loved it.

I know which one i'd rather watch miss match or not

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Yes, you're the target audience. The drama, the trash talk. I'm not the target audience, I prefer the sport of sport. I know I'll always be in the minority. But someone should speak up for sport because we know the crowds will always speak with their money for empty bluster.

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I don't think it is a case of either / or . It is quite possible to enjoy both for what they are. There are many here that can appreciate both the sublime and the ridiculous. Often the sublime is not quite as magical as we make it out to be and the ridiculous not so stupid.

@Ron Swanson

I like and enjoy the technical fighters as much as the brawlers but this fight got everyone talking and wanting to see who came out on top.
Yes there was insane hype, trash talking etc but thats what draws new fans to the sport.
I had me, my gf, her girl mate and two 11 year old boys glued to the tv on the edge of our seats and loving it, all of us shouting at the screen and it was a great night.
If that was the elite "Sport" genuine ppv fight your on about I.E. Garcia v Thurman and hypothetically it was on at 10pm uk time there would have been me watching on my own as they wouldn't have wanted to watch it/zero interest and if they did they'd have been bored shitless in a muted room due to the fact that it was a shit and very boring fight.
So thats me and 4 non boxing fans (2 kids, 2 women) all of which wanted to watch Haye v Bellew because we knew we'd be entertained and entertained we were.
Boxing isn't just for the purist/anorak brigade and never has been.
Never underestimate the pulling power of a genuine domestic uk grudge match.
We love it ;)

Without fights like Haye v Bellew, circus, pantomim, drama etc the sport doesn't attract new fans.
Look at Floyds last 6-7 fights.... the main man in the sport who single handedly gave UFC more viewers on a fucking plate through running round the ring pot shotting his opponents.
Technically brilliant yes
Entertaining no