How good was he really? He has a couple of losses to no-name fighters.
I see him as a slow, no-defense having plodder. If he was good, he wouldn't have had to resort to loading his gloves.
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How good was he really? He has a couple of losses to no-name fighters.
I see him as a slow, no-defense having plodder. If he was good, he wouldn't have had to resort to loading his gloves.
He's a horrible cunt. End of.
From about the time of the Martinez fight through until the Mosley fight he was a very good welterweight. I would have loved to seen him against Mayorga around late 2003 early 2004.
Me too.Power vs volume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
He was tough , and fought with a rare medical condition throughout his career.
The condition was called "Hypo Plaster of Paris Syndrome" , where the sufferers hands turn to a solid plaster state before a fight.
A fight fans wet dream. I wish Mayorga had of stayed at 147 (and disciplined) instead of chasing the money north in weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkMe too.Power vs volume.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
you might as well have put the loaded gloves in the thread title
in fact we should do that, any thread about any boxer we should add their cheating as part of the title
How good was Antonia Margarito (loaded gloves)?
Did Holyfield (steroid cheat) beat Lewis in their second fight?
Is Shane Moseley (steroid cheat) and American legend?
Is Tyson Fury (cocaine addict) still the best HW around?
What has cocaine addict got to do with boxing, just as Mike Tyson the rapist, Ali the adulterer or Ray Robinson wife beater.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
nowt
He should be banned from the sport.
I will never forget that cotto fight..if only someone had checked his handwraps before..
Wanker.
Margarito is still fighting even with that busted eye.
He had an interesting rivalry with Santos and was the avoided fighters for some time.
His fight with Williams was very underrated and he came on strong at the end.
He significantly hurt Cotto's career with the beating he gave him and just shows you what a great fighter Cotto is from coming back from that loss.
I really enjoyed margarita's fight against Manny Pac that was where I think his eye was badly damaged and he took a beating.
Cotto's revenge was good to watch too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
add Roy Jones to that list.
The list would go on for quite a while which is sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean DukeQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
add Roy Jones to that list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterThe list would go on for quite a while which is sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean DukeQuote:
Originally Posted by erics44
add Roy Jones to that list.
You know master fucking shame
the list does go on
but non will get the same abuse as margarita gets
I could start a thread about holyfield and his cheating wouldn't get mentioned through pages and pages of replies
start a thread about margarita and if it isn't mentioned in the opening post then it will only a couple of replies in
Then we get the debate which is worse armed or induced with intent?Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I don't think you can split them
but does it even matter
both are endangering the life of the opponent more than that is natural
One carries a prison sentence the other does not yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Don't forget the devastating KTFO loss to Shane Mosley where, to add insult to injury, his cheating ways were discovered.... one of the highlights of my boxing watching career.
Just as Margarito will want to forget that so do I. It was shocking but that was not the real fighter but the one with a guilty conscious who knew he was going to be banned and ridiculed for the rest of his life.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
Don't forget the devastating KTFO loss to Shane Mosley where, to add insult to injury, his cheating ways were discovered.... one of the highlights of my boxing watching career.
He should have gone to prison for getting caught.
A whole host of the worlds most famous trainers said you wouldn't necessarily be aware of how they prepare or wrap hands, they could all cheat if they wanted without the fighter knowing.
There's no evidence he ever fought a single fight with loaded gloves. Just saying....
If a boxer knew he would get banned/imprisoned they would soon make sure they knew if their gloves were loaded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I've heard this before and my first thought is either the trainers are protecting their fighters, or they consider the fighters to be oblivious to a moronic extreme. One of the more infamous cases of illegal gloves, Luis Resto, said he was aware of "Panama" Lewis' tampering with his gloves, not only on that fateful occasion, but a couple of other times before. It's hard for me to imagine a fighter is totally unconscious to what is going on with his hands in preparation for a fight. We'll never know for sure whether Margarito knew of the plaster-like stuff being put in his gloves... but taking everything into consideration I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he did.
I would have preferred Floyd to have fought him than Baldimor when they had the opportunity but recognise that Arum was the reason why it did not happen.
I think the main difference is that Evander was never charged or disciplined for steroid use. People speculate that Evander used steroids because of his build and the "Evan Field" entry at BALCO, but his steroid use is still only alleged. Margarito was caught with plaster of Paris in his gloves by Brother Naz. No disputing that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I wouldn't be surprised if Margarito knew either, however, unless the fans are handwrap experts, they actually have experience in wrapping and can prove/discredit what the worlds best trainers say, the views of people in the know need to be considered (especially from a neutral with an open-mind - me).
Therefore, not only is it impossible to prove Margarito ever cheated (without a confession) but it's also not gospel whether or not he was ever aware.
As was made abundantly clear in the "Tito loaded gloves" thread. An objection to the way his hands were wrapped - which were perfectly legal for just about everywhere apart from this particular commission - means he's a full blown loaded gloves cheater and his entire career is suspect. Laughable.
ok, its unfair to use Holyfield as an example, swap Mosleys name in thereQuote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodI think the main difference is that Evander was never charged or disciplined for steroid use. People speculate that Evander used steroids because of his build and the "Evan Field" entry at BALCO, but his steroid use is still only alleged. Margarito was caught with plaster of Paris in his gloves by Brother Naz. No disputing that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
We've got a bit sidetracked with the gloves issue here, methinks.
He turned pro at 15, as many impoverished Mexican greats do, and came up through the brutal brutal Mexican domestic lower weights.
A three time Welterweight 'world' champion, he was gigantic at the weight - but very physically strong. He had a solid, simple technique that allowed him to get over a customary slow start to bully and break down his opponents. He had an absolute cast iron chin, and often seemed to break his opponents hearts on route to brutalising them. He had a massive workrate once the first couple of rounds were over, I think he threw a record 1600 punches against Joshua Clottey over 12 rounds!
For a few years, he was undoubtedly the most avoided welterweight on the planet.
The gloves thing, and the fact that he looks like a movie stereotype cartel hitman resulted in him playing the 'baddie' for most of his fights, especially later on.
When he went up the weights later on, he couldn't carry his power up and he wasn't faster than th bigger guys. He was prone to getting outpointed and - even if you hate him - you have to admire his will and chin.
Holyfeild was never caught or held in court and found guilty of anything though or suspended of anything. I mean in his 26 year pro career he was never caught might as well list every boxer a cheater in the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
A prime Margo was a classic stalk, stun, and kill fighter. One he had his man hurt, he would close like a Tiger on a lamb.
I think a fight against Alfredo Angulo would be fun to watch for shits and giggles. I could imagine them forehead to forehead trading in the middle of the ring non stop ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickMuck
Sadist
Good post. I saw and 18 year-old Margarito take a liver shot from Alfred Ankamah that dropped him. It was a great shot from a very good puncher but Margarito got up and stopped Ankamah. Very tough man.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
First, there is more than the name Evan Fields in the Balco investigation. There was proof of delivery of packages to Evan Fields at Evanders address. Anyone arguing he is innocent or we don't know is ignoring evidence. Concrete evidence.
Next, Margarito, the cheating POS that he was had a lot going for him. He was fighting guys much smaller than him. As he moved up and fought guys his size he was mediocre. But with a size advantage he was pretty damned good as long as he had his plaster. Unfortunately for him he had some of the worst feet ever. Just awful. That's why as Master begrudgingly admitted Arum kept the 2 apart while faking he wanted that fight to build Antonios name. In Dan Rafaels archives you can find concrete evidence Bob put the kibosh on that fight.
Major props to Master for telling the truth about that. Many ignore the evidence on that to fit their agenda.
For those reasons Floyd would have boxed the ears off Magarito.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I never regarded margatito as anything but a pretty good welterweight. He didn't have any great wins. He came forward and punched. He was slow and had horrible footwork. He had a rock solid chin and a good punch (plaster?).
I was never a fan of his and never understood why people rated him so highly.
ok, its unfair to use Holyfield as an example, swap Mosleys name in thereQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr140Holyfeild was never caught or held in court and found guilty of anything though or suspended of anything. I mean in his 26 year pro career he was never caught might as well list every boxer a cheater in the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by erics44
I thought margarita was very entertaining
brilliant walk them down style and a solid chin
cotto margarita 1 is my favourite fight that didn't involve a brit
He was never caught pissing hot and was never in court and found guilty plain and simple. A man having a 26 year career and never failing i would say he was playing on same field as anyone else so i do not think he is cheater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
As far as how good he was i really do not know he had a rock hard chin and stamina which was very telling trait. Pac and Mosley pretty much ruin that guy though they put a lot of leather on that dudes face took year off Margarito.