I thought Jacobs did more than enough to overcome the KD which was a bit iffy anyway. GGG had his moments, but I saw Jacobs outboxing a GGG who increasingly looked like Provodnikov out there. Who do you have winning the fight?
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I thought Jacobs did more than enough to overcome the KD which was a bit iffy anyway. GGG had his moments, but I saw Jacobs outboxing a GGG who increasingly looked like Provodnikov out there. Who do you have winning the fight?
I thought Jacobs did enough but can see it the other way no problem. When a guy is roundly expected to get blown away there's a danger of giving them extra credit for simply avoiding that fate. Please lets not cry robbery.
That's what some think though. That GGG/Canelo is too big to let a just decision happen. That's why I am curious about who people thought won the fight. If most people end up thinking Jacobs won, then there is arguably a case to be made that boxing is up to its old tricks. The early view on here is that people thought GGG looked a bit off and that Jacobs excelled.
ive said ALL ALONG ggg is *************SHIT**************
Very close, but GGG scored the knockdown and clearly won the 12th in a close fight, those two things should usually win you the fight. Factor in that GGG outlanded Jacobs by over 100 punches or so and he deserved the nod. Great effort and gameplan by Jacobs. Lapses in consistency prevented the upset.
Good fight. Could've gone either way.
I usually try to stay away from this "who do think won" questions due to the fact that most people are influenced by other factors in this type of sport.
But GGG...
Was fighting a man that was much bigger than him on fight night. (Weight and size advantages have impact at the highest levels of the sport. It's possible for an average skilled fighter to beat a very good skilled fighter based on weight and size alone. Think about that and let it sink for a minute)
Out-landed the other fighter. (It's a sport measured by punches after all)
Got a knock down. (Knockdowns and making your opponent retreat is part of controlling the frame)
Made the other guy fight his fight. (This is what controlling the frame is all about)
I can see how you can give the fight to Jacobs though. We all see things through different glasses. I favor certain things when watching fights and you probably do too.
a) Jacobs made the weigh in weight, so I don't see this as an argument. He didn't meet the rehydration clause, but so what? They shouldn't have had the weigh in so early. You have a general idea how big your opponent will be come fight night and it is what it is. No plus points for fighting a bigger man on the score cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderingfighter
b) Compubox is something many debate the merits of. All you can do is score the fight the best you can on a round by round basis. On my viewing there were no punch stats and on that basis nothing to be influenced by either. In the rounds Golovkin won convincingly such as the KD round, I imagine the punch stats would have been quite wide. Rounds are not won by just outlanding an opponent. That's the amateurs. My first instinct is that those numbers sound dodgy.
c) True, Golovkin scored a KD. Won that round by 2 points as a result.
d) I am not sure that this is true. Golovkin was made to look a bit like Provodnikov at times. He was coming forwards, but not working and getting tied up very easily down the stretch. Jacobs was dictating the terms of the fight by that stage. At times GGG was using the jab well and doing damage with combinations, but for stretches of the fight he looked very pedestrian and gave rounds away through inactivity.
GGG is very good, but I think Jacobs showed that he is very good too but has a better plan B and C.
By the 4th round it was clear to me that it was Jacob's fight to lose. Had he listened to his corner, and maintained focus on his camp's gameplay, he would have outboxed Golovkin to a UD win. The rounds where he strayed from his strategy, are the reason he lost this close decision. I thought he won, but there were rounds, where it was clear to me at the time, he was giving away by trying to engage with power rather than show dominance with boxing skill.
The old saying springs to mind , Did he do Enough to take the title from GGG ?
Rematch is in order.
Jacobs wins a rematch and makes it look easy--which is why it won't happen.
We will have to wait and see if they rematch. Maybe Jacobs needed to just leave nothing to chance and empty the tank fully.
GGG didn't knock him out, which proves Jacobs was robbed. Fact.
Fucks sake... for starters, fuck all the GGG haters, you stick out like a sore thumb - For all the sensible/neutral fans - if you reverse the expectation of what WILL happen to what DID happen the same pratts crying robbery (not having a pop at people that scored it close for Jacobs) would be saying Golovkin was robbed had the decision gone to Jacobs. Jacobs overachieved, he did better than everyone thought, he's a moral winner, it doesn't mean he won.
Even if Golovkin lost six rounds - which is two to many in my book - he still had a 10-8 round.
Can someone tell me how the HBO/BN commentators had it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalfa) Jacobs made the weigh in weight, so I don't see this as an argument. He didn't meet the rehydration clause, but so what? They shouldn't have had the weigh in so early. You have a general idea how big your opponent will be come fight night and it is what it is. No plus points for fighting a bigger man on the score cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderingfighter
b) Compubox is something many debate the merits of. All you can do is score the fight the best you can on a round by round basis. On my viewing there were no punch stats and on that basis nothing to be influenced by either. In the rounds Golovkin won convincingly such as the KD round, I imagine the punch stats would have been quite wide. Rounds are not won by just outlanding an opponent. That's the amateurs. My first instinct is that those numbers sound dodgy.
c) True, Golovkin scored a KD. Won that round by 2 points as a result.
d) I am not sure that this is true. Golovkin was made to look a bit like Provodnikov at times. He was coming forwards, but not working and getting tied up very easily down the stretch. Jacobs was dictating the terms of the fight by that stage. At times GGG was using the jab well and doing damage with combinations, but for stretches of the fight he looked very pedestrian and gave rounds away through inactivity.
GGG is very good, but I think Jacobs showed that he is very good too but has a better plan B and C.
The weight made a massive difference which is why we have weight divisions, GGG stays at around 168 (SMW) and Jacobs was walking around at 176 on the morning of the fight (Cruiserweight).
Of course that gives Jacobs a Massive advantage
Just watched it on YouTube without knowing result.
Wouldn't have been surprised either way with decision so no complaints..boxnation team had Jacobs by 2 but I think they were too quick to give him rounds as clearly wanted the upset.
GGG was disappointing though and clearly frustrated with himself for his performance
I did not score the fight as I thought GGG would blow him away but score it when I watch the repeat. I had thought Jacobs won and GGG was off the pace.
fancied GGG before,thought Jacobs afterwards, wasn't aware of the extent that Jacobs apparently rehydrated to
I voted Jacobs but after some thought its not really the type of victory that warrants the taking of 4 belts from a p4p top fighter.
Mayweather certainly would have not lost his belts in that fashion. I honestly thing GGG held back a little from the start and in a rematch this would be heavily in GGG's favor. Jacobs fought really well though and i think he is the real deal top fighter who had made GGG look human. Lets not take anything away from his performance last night. He was brilliant.
Was it enough to take away all them belts though.. Im not sure i will have to watch it again.
Golovkin.
Watched it with no sound.
Certainly a fight of two halves with GGG bossing the first half but Jacobs being nowhere near as convincing in his half.
7-5 GGG and a proper KD nothing iffy about it whatsoever. People are reaching to try and discredit a GREAT boxer in a proper fight with somebody who made him fight for the whole 12 rounds. Jacobs already being taller with a reach advantage and then a huge weight advantage come fight time has to be factored into it or else you then have to be consistent and give Canelo etc no shit for doing the same. This is why GGG has not moved up he is not that big. Despite that Jacobs hit him several times with his best shots and couldn't budge him (watch his frustration in RD 11 when he hit him with shots that would have planked lesser fighters). Still people can't bring themselves to credit GGG for actually proving in this fight how legitimate he is. Talk of him having no defense and being like Prov is dumb at best, and that is being charitable. Watch him side step, feint , duck, lean, tilt his chin again and again to avoid being hit straight on. When he does get hit he again proves he has a great beard, but that is not the same is just standing there and letting someone tee off all night. Golovkin again does not take a step backwards, but he fights with great skill and hunting down a first class rangy boxer that could bang a bit like Jacobs is no mean feat.
I can see why somebody might have it as a draw but you have to ignore the KD and the effectiveness of Golovkins work in negating Jacobs opportunity to land scoring punches to really believe that Jacobs beat him. Nothing like a robbery and very predictable example of negative naysayers lining up to tear a great fighter down.
Have you even watched the fight ? Is this why you so rarely post about boxing? If GGG is so shite what does that make Jacobs and all the amateur and Pro fighters he has left in his wake? Disrespectful to the art and typically negative and clueless, should not expect anything else from you really though. Twat.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
He gives twats a bad name, he is more of a dick head.Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanzHave you even watched the fight ? Is this why you so rarely post about boxing? If GGG is so shite what does that make Jacobs and all the amateur and Pro fighters he has left in his wake? Disrespectful to the art and typically negative and clueless, should not expect anything else from you really though. Twat.Quote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbust
Wait, you gave GGG 8 rounds? I'd absolutely love to hear which. That's madness. I have no problem with the decision. It was a close fight but giving GGG 8 rounds is silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
8-4 is not far off 7-5 rounds so it is not that far fetched to say he could not have won 8 rounds.
Considering Jacobs came in with a 10 plus pound weight advantage, there was no knocking Jacobs out. Jacobs, and fighters like Jacobs who let fights be too close with their weight advantages, really and truly start out 2 points down. The judges don't tell you that, but it is something we have come to understand that evens out the weight disparity. Jacobs could have only won by a brutal beating over 12, which GGG had to have had several knockdowns; or won by brutal KO. There was no other way.
Also, Jacobs is not a Jr. Middleweights that came up LIKE Bushida and Rosado; Part time boxers, full time gang-bangers and party animals like Wade and Stevens; or inexperienced guys like Monroe; OR even inactive guys who just came back to get a good payday like Geale, Murray or Rubio.
But, he was in there with a fighter than as training, HEALTHY AS A HORSE, experienced, can punch, can take a punch (He took too long to get up from the Pirog knockdown and could have and should have gotten up, plus he was showing signs of failing health and not taking training seriously) and plus a guy that came in 10 plus pounds heavier and LOOKED better fit at Super-Middleweight than he did at Middleweight.
I'm not saying this is the first time GGG got in with a REAL opponent, but Jacobs was a REAL opponent and posed a REAL threat.
I say rematch, this time forget taking SERIOUSLY the weight restrictions and let them fight and train up to have a day before weigh-in, and leave it at that... Then and only then will we see what's what!
:cool:
LEDERMAN HAD it even going into the last round which golovkin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
John Rawling's commentary on BoxNation was sickeningly biased in favor of Jacobs, and may have misled a few people.
HBO commentary was fair. They all had Golovkin winning.
I scored it 115-112 for Golovkin, who landed the cleaner, more effective punches. Jacobs was hurt several times.
Golovkin caught most of Jacobs' punches on his gloves and was never hurt in the fight.
GGG won. It's not a robbery or anything, just a very competitive fight and our perception has been "alterated" by the fact that many expected GGG to just smoke Jacobs out at some point because he used us to it. A very very competitive fight and I hope there will be a second bout at some point.
I had Golovkin winning but not impressively. It was a close fight and Jacobs could'nt get any home cooking in his own state but Triple G still edged it. Even though he didn't win. Jacobs still felt like he got the moral victory just by surviving the full 12 rounds, putting on a respectable showing.
But when Danny had the chance to pressure the fight he opted to get on his bike and wait for GGG to bring the fight to him all night long.
And those judges saw THAT
The lack of will to go for the KO when he (Jacobs) had all the advantages. He was faster, much bigger. But he was never the aggressor.
You have to BEAT the champ.
Triple G has the ultimate poker face. He never looks like he’s been hurt. Nor does he lose his shape. So Triple G’s whole demeanour is that of man in control that’s why he’ll always be tough to beat in close contests.
And also one of THE great misinterpretations of boxing is that you cannot out-box someone on the front foot. Out-boxing seems to be something that can only be done on the back-foot. Golovkin’s controlled the fight on the front foot.
Danny's strategy was to survive and flurry.
But as I say GGG was not impressive, so is he a commie hype job ?
Well, the wheels on the GGG hype train are getting wobbly as phuk
One thing that has always bothered me about Golovkin's training is I never see him throwing quick combinations. Always power punches.
K2 was VERY wise keeping Ward away from GGG.
Backing straight up with no side to side movement and head-hunting too much. I don't think he can beat Canelo or Ward after what I saw last night.
If I was GGG then I would immediately retire after the big money fight against Canelo. Because there are younger guys out there like Jermall Charlo, Erikson Lubin who could give GGG serious trouble and time runs against Golovkin.
I think Abel Sanchez (GGG Trainer) looks silly now when he compared GGG to Sugar Ray Robinson and saying only Robinson and Hagler are above GGG at 160.
https://media3.giphy.com/media/ECtLJKdGj8jfy/200.gif#3
I rewatched it last night and I had it fairly even towards the end this time. Possibly the KD was the difference. Some close rounds though where it could have gone to either fighter really. Would like to see a rematch. GGG can't be satisfied with that and Jacobs will believe he can improve on it.
I just watched it and I thought Jacobs won it by 2 rounds. Considering GGG won a 10-8 round, that's pretty conclusive. But having said that, there are many ways to score a fight and I wouldn't say it was a robbery .
I think it's a lot of factors all adding up to what happened, GGG isn't getting any younger, he struggled to cope with a bigger, stronger guy, he didn't cut down the ring as well as he normally does and he looked a little ponderous.
The one good thing is that we now have a definitive idea of GGG's Level. He's no ATG, but he is a very respectable champion, who was maybe exposed a little.
Despite the fact that I think Oscar is a wanker, maybe he's timed this just right for his guy. I'm still not sure though.
Very well said. I don't see a rematch happening tho Jacobs deserves one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
I don't think you can form a definitive idea of anyone's level from one fight. I also don't believe this idea that GGG was exposed. It's not as though all his former opponents were absolute nobodies. Give Jacobs some credit he gave Golovkin a proper fight and elevated his own standing in doing so. Can't see where you get his two round win from either without believing that not getting backed up and being battered from pillar to post wins him a round. You have to win a round be being more effective, stopping your opponent working effectively, and landing more, and Jacobs most certainly did not do that for 7 rounds IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo Carnera
I don't score rd-by-rd when watching fights live (i can easily do that to make a case for either fighter, there were several close swing rounds). I believe the rd-by-rd scoring system is badly, badly flawed, hence it throws up so many "robberies." (example - on the world feed Kevin Kelly had the fight scored a draw going into the 12 rd but was dumbfounded by his own scorecard as he thought Golovkin was clearly winning the fight, then tried to justify it by waffling about "you have to rip the belt from the champion, do more than him" and all that nonsense).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I fully accept Jacobs won several rounds (even to the point that people thought he won). He wasn't totally outclassed, his own speed, athleticism and silkier movement made Golovkin look like a stiff plodder at times.
However, overall I feel Golovkin was the rightful/clear winner. He was the more consistent, dominant fighter - especially with his heavy jab - controlled the action, threw more punches, got hit less and won rounds by bigger margins than Jacobs.
I've only watched the highlights and it looked like golovkin deserved it from that
I know that means little, they were extended highlights mind :)
Haven't read all of the replies, so forgive me if this has already been said, but this fight reminded me of Roy vs Tarver. I thought Roy gutted that close win out, due to Tarver having lapses in action and seeming to not go all out when he needed to, despite clearly having Roy's "number". I think everyone, including GGG AND Jacobs, were surprised at how effective Danny was in that ring. I am a big GGG fan, but I feel a more confident Danny wins the rematch, and that this is the beginning of the end for GGG.
A second thought/observation was that Jacobs is a fighter who tends to overlook certain opponents and struggle/lose to guys he should beat. To get stopped by Pirog and dropped by Mora, but go the distance in a tough fight with GGG and blow out Quillin makes little to no sense. It's obvious that your best strategy vs Jacobs is to make sure he doesn't view you as a threat in any way....
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Originally Posted by denilson200
Whoa. Who are you and what did you do to Denilson.
Whatever it was, thank you... and welcome to Saddo's.
The rest of your explanation was pretty good, too.
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Originally Posted by denilson200
Oh wait... Denilson appears to be back. Rats!
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Originally Posted by denilson200
100 percent agree with one..... 1,000 percent DISagree with the other.
No way in hell GGG beats Ward.
I think the weight made a big difference. GGG punches were not as effective but he still put Jacob's down. Next time GGG will not allow that much lead in time from the weigh in to the fight. Therefore I think GGG would beat Jacob more convincingly in the rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
The weight makes a huge difference. Don't forget the extra weight behind Jacobs's punches, and the extra weight behind the slip and shoulders to the chin and having to hold his his weight up when he clinches and leans on you. You can tell they tried to bottle it... Especially at the post fight press conference when Jacobs said he probably weighed 175 in the ring. (When he already 176 @8am that morning, 15 hrs before the fight and his camp admitted they wanted to come in big). Technically its legal at this point (outside the IBF) but not very sporting.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterI think the weight made a big difference. GGG punches were not as effective but he still put Jacob's down. Next time GGG will not allow that much lead in time from the weigh in to the fight. Therefore I think GGG would beat Jacob more convincingly in the rematch.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
GGG should say sure if he wants to avenge the loss, he can challenge me for the IBF belt to see if Jacobs is that confident in his skills without the weight. If not Jacobs can go up to super middle, fight other fighters rehydrating up to the same weight, win a belt and see if Gennady wants to move up challenge for him for it. I wouldn't be high on Jacobs in a rematch till i see how he fairs in his next fight. Truthfully, Golovkin seems to have a way of changing fighters and they aren't the same. Also is jacobs going to put his entire entourage (algieri, conte, hill, etc etc --aside from Rozier) on his team for the rest of his bouts? or did he blow his wad and this is one and done deal? Cuz quite frankly, he seems content to say they robbed him and milk the applause for his efforts. He's doing all the talking now about how GGG isnt the boogey man people said he was, and how he told GGG that he would have to kill jacobs, and how he traded freely after he got up because he felt he could and calling himself gracious in defeat:rolleyes:... but no rematch... maybe hes had his fill.
@Master: can see many of your points and think they are valid, but tend to disagree with you. I'm a fan of two individuals making a previously agreed upon weight, at a specific time. Rehydration clauses are silly, in my opinion, not to mention unnecessary. James Toney rehydrated to 186 by the time he fought Roy and was thoroughly beaten. Tarver and Tito BOTH rehydrated to be heavier than Hop, and he dominated both of them. Some individuals are able to wring the water out of their system and rehydrate effectively for a while, but this habit tends to backfire justa S often as it works.
I'm a big GGG fan, and supporter. That being said, I think Jacobs exposed what we all suspected may be an Achilles heal for GGG, namely tight defense, durability, and movement/angles. We were surprised that Danny's chin, after showing previous vulnerabilities/concerns held up, but I don't think that had to do with the weight as much as Danny being mentally prepared for what was coming. Maybe the rematch works out different than I expect (if it happens), but just like Douglas, Oscar, and Tarver set the blueprints to beat Tyson, Tito, and Roy, I feel Jacobs took what success Brook had, and expounded on that as the bigger man. I see people coming in less intimidated and GGG having a more difficult time in the future. I acknowledge that I may be mistaken though...