What is your take on this?
Mind games.. or did JDJ mess himself up by saying team Ward never accepted his offer.
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What is your take on this?
Mind games.. or did JDJ mess himself up by saying team Ward never accepted his offer.
Not sure what you mean by "this", is there new information?
Last I knew Wards camp didn't invite him in. I'm surprised by that, why not at least pick his brain. Perhaps he's seen something useful.
I don't really blame JDJ considering Kovalev is rather blatantly racist and they were very disrespectful to him. I suspect he saw worse behind closed doors.
I'm not sure how good a trainer JDJ is though to speak on his abilities in that regard.
John David Jackson was an excellent boxer. Did not know he had left Kovalev.
http://www.boxingscene.com/video-and...ackson--117187
I honestly have no idea how this rematch is going to turn out.
JDJ is being mugged off by Kovalev so I can see him getting the sack if they loose again.
Jackson is probally one of the best things to happen to Kovalev. He gives him a boxers mentality when Kov seems so hell bent of being some comic book Krusher. He'd do well to retain Jackson by any means necessary. The reports look to have conflicting he said-she said, last interview I saw with Jackson said Wards people approached. Mind games.
Anyone know where to find 24/7 Ward vs Kovalev II episode 1?
Bit weird having the trainer admit he would've jumped ship for the right price. However team Kov are spinning it I bet Jackson won't be with him after this Ward fight. Kov waffling about overtraining, Jackson waffling about the Russians, Duva waffling about she's never seen anything like this in 30 years. Everyone waffling that it's all hunky-dory... thinly veiled seething underneath
This promotion is not selling well apparently. Ward is just not exciting to watch and especially in a fight which is going to be twelve more rounds of the bloody same with a sleepworthy Ward points victory at the end of it. Speaking of not exciting to watch, Rigondeaux is on the undercard. Ward and Rigondeaux on the same card and they wonder why they can't sell tickets.
I don't rate JDJ as a trainer, who has he taken under his wing and polished and made into a better fighter?
According to Wikipedia this is who he has trained:
Sergey Kovalev
Kimbo Slice
Allan Green (starting with his bout Anthony Bonsante)
Bernard Hopkins (for his bout with Antonio Tarver)
Shane Mosley (starting with his second bout with Winky Wright and ending after his first bout with Fernando Vargas)
Nate Campbell (The first fighter Jackson led to a world title)
Dyah Davis (Son of 1976 Olympic gold medalist Howard Davis Jr.)
Brad Solomon
Khabib Allakhverdiev
Magomed Abdusalamov
Chris Algieri
Curtis Stevens
I don't even want to get into what happened with Mago....that is very sad and I'm sure it's something that is every fighter and trainer's nightmare.
You look at those guys and I don't think they have any 1 certain thing they all do well that you can say "That's what JDJ gave him". He's not like a Freddie Roach or Manny Steward where he gives his fighters a certain distinct style and that could be a good thing, but at the same time he's not getting extra out of these guys.
If you gave Sergey Kovalev to a different trainer any different trainer what would be the result? I am interested to know if he'd be better, worse, or you couldn't tell the difference.
What's the riff all about? I'Ve been dead busy working the equivalent of 2 x full times for the summer intensive classes (I swear, I'll never give 2 intensive classes at the same time ever again) and apparently that I've missed something pretty odd. ?
Hanging his hat alone on what Kovalev shows today after years is ratable. Jackson is written all over Kovalev top notch jab and the subtleties he shows in footwork. Not to mention not falling in love with his power. Or snapping in a crowded hotel lobby because the elevator is slow :-X. Seriously Kov reminds you of a guy but, moving on. He's a teaching trainer with career depth and was taught under massive wings also by both Benton and Steward. Roach has respect but they can't all find gems like a near one armed brawler named Pacquiao and ride that light from star to star. Jackson is finding his nitch and improves majority of guys he works with fight to fight. Save for Stevenson who he watched be ko'd..and we're ok with that ;D.Quote:
Originally Posted by El Kabong
Ok.. In a nutshell basically what happened was after the first fight around January there was contact between John David Jackson and Andre Ward's camp. Jackson said they contacted him first. Ward's Camp of course said that Jackson came to them looking to pitch his services. Afterwards in an interview, Jackson said if they gave him Fort Knox he probably would have jumped to Team warm but of course they didn't meet his price for breaking his loyalty to kovalev. Ward's Camp says that they were willing to help Jackson out by employing him because kovalev was abusive to him after the loss. Gamesmanship by team Ward? Something Shady by John David Jackson? We're all left to be the judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
So some of us are thrown a little by the fact that there is a price on John David Jackson's loyalty in the way he worded it. Is Jackson a straight shooter? Well he admitted there was a price.... So the question for me is why go there pitching services if he was just going to say no anyway? Usually somebody that makes an offer is willing to haggle. The other question I have is that a team Ward is so sure that the second fight is going to be so much easier and that they won the first fight handily, why would you be willing to throw money away just to jeopardize the other persons camp especially considering how cheap and penny-pinching Ward and Roc Nation have been in the past. With every interview new details seemed to emerge from Ward's mouth about the situation and kovalev camp before he acts indifferent and disinterested and changes the subject.
Can someone post the 2nd episode of 24/7?
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_UndisputedOk.. In a nutshell basically what happened was after the first fight around January there was contact between John David Jackson and Andre Ward's camp. Jackson said they contacted him first. Ward's Camp of course said that Jackson came to them looking to pitch his services. Afterwards in an interview, Jackson said if they gave him Fort Knox he probably would have jumped to Team warm but of course they didn't meet his price for breaking his loyalty to kovalev. Ward's Camp says that they were willing to help Jackson out by employing him because kovalev was abusive to him after the loss. Gamesmanship by team Ward? Something Shady by John David Jackson? We're all left to be the judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
So some of us are thrown a little by the fact that there is a price on John David Jackson's loyalty in the way he worded it. Is Jackson a straight shooter? Well he admitted there was a price.... So the question for me is why go there pitching services if he was just going to say no anyway? Usually somebody that makes an offer is willing to haggle. The other question I have is that a team Ward is so sure that the second fight is going to be so much easier and that they won the first fight handily, why would you be willing to throw money away just to jeopardize the other persons camp especially considering how cheap and penny-pinching Ward and Roc Nation have been in the past. With every interview new details seemed to emerge from Ward's mouth about the situation and kovalev camp before he acts indifferent and disinterested and changes the subject.
Thanks a lot for the nutshell, now I see clear. There are many dubious things in the whole thing:
1) Jackson admitting Fort Knox could have done it throws some shadows over his loyalty ANd professionalism. If he meant that he'd jump ship for a lot of money and not that he meant that his price was way too high (aka Fort Knox) to break his loyalty.
2) Why in hell would Ward seek for him? He has had quite the hell of a ride with Hunter.
It's all very dubious, I gotta agree.
From what I gather and regardless of what one might think of him as a trainer it wouldn't be first time hinting at or actually jumping ship. In fairness he's certainly not the first to do so either. Jackson was training Rances Barthelemy prior to his first fight with Mendez and was "approached" to train fighters from Iron Mike production. At first he refused to train Argenis Mendez because he wanted to be there for Barthelemy..loyalty and all on top of then having to pay out :-X...but it sounds like he met again with those who sought him out and 'made a deal' to leave Rances and train Mendez. Has to be a gut punch to a fighter. Barthelemy found his own consolation though as he spectacularly knocked Mendez out!Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessQuote:
Originally Posted by J_UndisputedOk.. In a nutshell basically what happened was after the first fight around January there was contact between John David Jackson and Andre Ward's camp. Jackson said they contacted him first. Ward's Camp of course said that Jackson came to them looking to pitch his services. Afterwards in an interview, Jackson said if they gave him Fort Knox he probably would have jumped to Team warm but of course they didn't meet his price for breaking his loyalty to kovalev. Ward's Camp says that they were willing to help Jackson out by employing him because kovalev was abusive to him after the loss. Gamesmanship by team Ward? Something Shady by John David Jackson? We're all left to be the judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless
So some of us are thrown a little by the fact that there is a price on John David Jackson's loyalty in the way he worded it. Is Jackson a straight shooter? Well he admitted there was a price.... So the question for me is why go there pitching services if he was just going to say no anyway? Usually somebody that makes an offer is willing to haggle. The other question I have is that a team Ward is so sure that the second fight is going to be so much easier and that they won the first fight handily, why would you be willing to throw money away just to jeopardize the other persons camp especially considering how cheap and penny-pinching Ward and Roc Nation have been in the past. With every interview new details seemed to emerge from Ward's mouth about the situation and kovalev camp before he acts indifferent and disinterested and changes the subject.
Thanks a lot for the nutshell, now I see clear. There are many dubious things in the whole thing:
1) Jackson admitting Fort Knox could have done it throws some shadows over his loyalty ANd professionalism. If he meant that he'd jump ship for a lot of money and not that he meant that his price was way too high (aka Fort Knox) to break his loyalty.
2) Why in hell would Ward seek for him? He has had quite the hell of a ride with Hunter.
It's all very dubious, I gotta agree.
I watched 24/7 but have not seen it mentioned. Is it part of the promotion hype?
I don't think it was intended to be of part of the original hype, but I don't think the fights promoting itself like they thought it would. They thought a close decision should be a sure thing for rematch money. I don't think they counted on a lot of people being soured on this fight and the add the GGG Jacobs fight and stuff (shaving down margins and storytelling controversies to set up dramatic showdowns and rematches) like this is just happening way too often. Add to that the people that got fleeced on the Canelo/Junior Sham and everyone's tightening the purse straps.
This happened supposedly around January. But I think they're grasping at straws now to push the bad blood angle after the no show by ward at the face off taping. The alleged no show by Kovalev at the the ringside blurb interview opportunity. If you wanted bad blood, face off could have given everyone that. The promotional companies going tit for tat with non cooperating. The prospects of this fight are not as good as planned I think.
Everyone saw how the first fight went and I think we're nearing a point where there's almost an expectation of a guarantee on a good fight with the pure amount of BS being spread by the industry. Every once in a while you get a glimmer of hope from a fight like AJ vs Klitschsko and it almost makes you forget stuff like "Marinate"... Mayweather training to break a boxing record with a guy who doesn't box, Pacquiao fighting Horn, Canelo having a rematch clause in the agreement with GGG only if Canelo loses... So I cant blame the fans if they don't buy kovalev's claim of over training for the first fight and gassing... and expect that Ward will start the hug and slug early this time and drag Kovalev down into the mire where he'll gets no help from the ref and the judges are already looking to follow suit with the those from the first fight... barring a KO from Kovalev (which is really the outcome people would probably find worth the money)
To me the guy is no different than Buddy McGirt, I mean not a HORRIBLE trainer by any stretch, not a superstar trainer, just kind of average pro trainer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
I think Ronnie Shields could do a better job with Kov than JDJ but that's me and I rate Shields' work better but that's just me I guess