How much credit should Roy get for winning a HW title? Yes, he was the first fighter in a century to win titles from MW to HW, but he won a trinket belt by beating a slow, light-punching, undersized HW in Ruiz.
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How much credit should Roy get for winning a HW title? Yes, he was the first fighter in a century to win titles from MW to HW, but he won a trinket belt by beating a slow, light-punching, undersized HW in Ruiz.
I think it's going to be remembered as a statistical anomaly, rather than an actual fantastic achievement.
It is true that he is - factually - the only former middleweight champ to win a world heavyweight title although Floyd Patterson won an Olympic gold at middleweight and was the professional undisputed heavyweight champ).
HOWEVER; I think it does need to be remembered that he 'only' won an alphabet belt, and he didn't beat the dominant heavyweight of the day in Lennox Lewis. Both Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko were also coming up at the time and were both ranked in the top ten. I don't think many people genuinely think that Roy would have managed to beat any of those guys?
In my view, Ruiz was also possibly the worst alphabet belt holder ever (although the legendary Charles Martin could push him closemfor that accolade)
Roy was unquestionably a great fighter, but I do tend to think that this achievement should have a small asterisk next to it!
That was an amazing g victory to beat Ruiz who still beat a number of fighters afterwards. Yes, James Toney won too which does tarnish Roy's achievement a bit but I did not think Roy would do it a d actually paid to watch that fight as it was history in the making.
Roy was fighting at or around 154 in the beginning of his career, even still making 154 in his 12th fight. For him to beat Hop for a middleweight title. Winning the SMW against Toney. A light heavyweight title against Montell Griffin. Another against Del Valle. Another against Johnson. Another against Harding. Remaining against Gonzalez. And jumping up to take on Ruiz is tremendous. As much crap as Ruiz gets he has like 5 heavyweight title fight victories and fought many great fighters. As much as I hate Ruiz I felt he was robbed of a couple title victories too.(could say gifts as well so it evened out)
Roy is a freak of nature, embrace his career and enjoy it. You may never see that again.
Well in fairness it was Ruiz ;D. Roy was bored. He was toting around belts representing the ibo, iba and nwa FFS. He had not been in a decent semi competitive fight since Harding and his hands behind his back move vs *mandatory knock over #101 was making the news reels more than the actual win itself. I don't think the biggest mistake was him venturing to heavyweight so much as it was his initial intention and mind set to stay there scouting super fights that paid better than Ruiz. Then when all things came up empty he had to 'settle' and go back down to fight one of the better guys he had come close to facing in nearly a decade. It was a white wash by Jones and he deserves complete credit but personally Toney made a bigger mark at heavy regardless of trinket won and yes, he came up dirty as shat after beating up Ruiz.
Ruiz is very underrated because he was so boring. He was by no means a great fighter, but he beat some decent HWs and had close fights with some others. Bad style match up for him though. Jones was just way to fast.
For sure a great victory for jones but probably not his best.
its very harsh saying ruiz was the worst champ, he beat holyfield for the belt and at the time holyfield wasn't massively over the hillQuote:
Originally Posted by X
how about these for worst champs, fighters considered reasonably significant of their time
valuev
rahman
maskaev
peter
chagaev
all worse than Ruiz I reckon
Completely hit the nail on the Head! anybody thinking of trying to discredit Roy's achievement by denigrating Ruiz, wants to look at who AJ took the title off! it is what it is really, you don't get to choose who you beat for the title.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Swanson
I watched an interview with Roy once, which many of you have probably seen , but he was saying how when he was at his peak, he didn't just want to be World Champ, but he wanted to do something incredible that nobody would ever beat and be remembered for being an ATG by Going unbeaten throughout his career and picking up multiple weight division titles in the process. However, that was taken away from him with the Montell Griffin DQ. So he had to think again and what could he do that would be incredible? so he set himself the target of becoming HW champ of the World.
now some of you may think that's the regular bullshit these guys come out with , but for a period of time, Roy was a "once every couple of generations fighter" imo.
Roy was superb that night! Ruiz was a legit top 10 heavy at the time. The title was bogus but you can't blame Roy for that, Broner is a 4 weight champ according to history so take it as you will. The thing for me is he had floated the idea of venturing in the heavyweight waters for years but for one reason or another the fights never eventuated. It was a nice win but not on the level of Fitzsimmons' accomplishment for me.
Good piece of cynical matchmaking. Roy will forever go down as heavyweight champion even though in reality it was nothing more than a top light heavyweight beating a slow plodding non-puncher heavyweight.
Michalczewski or Ruiz? What would have been the better win?
It's like Ward swerving Kovalev to beat Lucas Browne (except he can punch) or Arreola (except he can punch too).
Roy should get as much kudos as 90% of fighters moving up in weight going for titles. Their path of least resistance is a well beaten one. The fact that it was a portion of 'The Heavyweight Title' gives it an extra sprinkle of lustre. Ruiz is kind of an afterthought in the whole thing.
I think most of my points have already been brought up by others, so will say it was an impressive feat to start at 154 and win a portion of the heavyweight title from a full sized heavyweight. Roy looked very good that night, and dominated a fighter who had an awkward style and made some pretty good heavyweights look bad.
All of that being said, Ruiz was limited, at best, and the accomplishment was put into perspective when a completely untrained and fat James Toney beat Ruiz by fighting every other round. So, in summary, it's not as meaningless as the haters attempt to make it out to be, because Roy is the only fighter to accomplish that feat (start at 154 and win a portion of the heavyweight title). On the other hand, it isn't the miraculous accomplishment the fan boys proclaim as Ruiz was a limited fighter and no where near the threat/champion Lennox was (the way the fan boys talk about this fight proving Roy is the GOAT you would think he beat Lennox).
Talking of who AJ beat to win a title, I can't think of a worse world belt holder than Charles Martin in entire history? Can anyone else?
Charles has won 2 fights since that loss but yes he was awful.Quote:
Originally Posted by sanatogen
Ruiz is not the worst HW title holder ever. Like I said before, he was more boring than bad. He had a good resume. He beat some pretty good fighters over his career and gave some other fighters a tough time.
He was in no way great, but there were definitely some worse title holders.
Ruiz was never a dangerous heavyweight, which I think is a massive factor with all heavyweights. An all-time great like Holyfield wasn't a dynamite puncher but in his pomp had more than enough skill/speed/crack to hurt giants and beat the crap out of fellow heavyweights.
If you claim Ruiz had a good career after losing to Roy then Toney stopping Holy is even more impressive, he made him look like a mug. Yes Holy was a fossil, but afterwards he arguably beat Valuev, half-a-dozen years later, Rahman and Oquendo. His form as a fossil matches up with Ruiz post-Roy.
Roy did mention fights with Tyson and maybe Holyfield at the time after his defeat of Ruiz.