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First and foremost I'm going out on a limb and say he's high as a kite right here :-X. Can agree let's not talk mandatory's and with Wlad out some big bangers are circling each other, but Wilder sounds tired man ;D. He needs to up his game and hire better pr reps. Sporting a blackened eye maybe as well
http://youtu.be/0vCcP0WMBi8
First thing that comes to mind is "careful what you wish for."
Eddie answered him, not sure why he turned down $4 million to face Whyte, huge money to what he's been making and would make the Joshua fight a virtual cert considering the dough on offer (if that's what he really wants)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hF5cs5Fyats
Good, sensible message. Horrible attempt at talking 'hood.
Ah man that was painful ;D. Really though Wilder almost has a feel of a guy letting 'it' all slip by while the division is in motion. Whyte fight makes sense as far as building towards A.J with Dillion making his U.S debut next month and having faced A.J prior. Assuming they wanted Wilder to travel across the pond to puff up profile and A.J match? Still though Wilder acts like a guy who took short cuts to the title, well easy route, and now demands equal footing based solely on holding a trinket. For a guy who's last two have been last minute replacements he needs to stop spinning his wheels and start building to a major event. Risk-reward go hand in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Sorry but business wise what Eddie said doesn't make sense. And if it doesn't make business sense then you have to consider alterior motives.
Let's use some logic.
What is the biggest fight in the heavyweight division right now?
Simple answer AJ vs Wilder. I don't think anyone would dispute that.
So Wilder says let's fight and the reply is okay but after these 2 other fights.
Let's then consider if those 2 other fights must be done first as stated.
No, they don't actually need to be done. If he fights and beats Pulev he has the same number of belts as if he fights and beats Wilder, stripped of one, gains one, the same. So they are arguing to be in the same spot but with less money after the fight.
So it must be about more future earnings right? Well, if Wilder loses which is just as likely as Wilder building his profile while they put it off obviously that is a huge loss in the back end. Potential gain if Wilder builds his profile. But not much because Wilder is already the fight most coveted. But, if he fights and beats Wilder then AJ is a bigger star with more immediate money AND Pulev can pick up that belt. Now 1 unification fight has become 2. Now Pulev is more valuable. So more money on front end and back end.
Eddies story doesn't wash. As most why we shouldn't fight stories tend to go.
He wants a massive payday and he doesn't want any risky fights in between then and now.
I think you are spot on. But need to consider why. And I think both sides know why. Because Wilder breaks his hand in every fight. There's a decent chance if the fight doesn't happen now it never happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
And there's a non-negligible chance that at the level he's at now he could easily get sparked. He doesn't exactly havesolid fundamentals, lots of holes in his swing and a shaky chin mean he's always just one punch away from having his bubble burst. Wasn't he due about twenty million to fight Povetkin before Povetkin tested positive? Whatever the number was that's the one in his head dictating his decisions. He wants a risk free path to a similar payday which means getting Joshua in the ring asap. That's why he doesn't want to hear about mandatories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI think you are spot on. But need to consider why. And I think both sides know why. Because Wilder breaks his hand in every fight. There's a decent chance if the fight doesn't happen now it never happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Similarly if Joshua is at risk from any of the top contenders you've got to think Wilder's right hand is top of the list of risks. Wilder has the athleticism and the wingspan to land something big and Whyte showed Joshua's chin isn't rock solid either. So Team Joshua might well want to fight a bunch of mandatories and keep Wilder at arm's length for a while. I actually watched the Wilder video and started to watch the Eddie video but had to switch it off when he put sunglasses on and started doing a Wilder impression. There's only so much a man can take.
Bottom line is the Joshua money express can continue without worrying about Wilder too much. It's not like Wilder is a massive US star and could generate a million PPV views and a big casino cheque. Wilder needs to make himself unavoidable but doesn't fancy what t would take to get there and definitely his fragile hand factors into that.
Well put and it's also AJ frankly holds the cards now and is talking back to back huge fights Ortiz etc. Wilder is stuck and acts like he's stuck in that vid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingAnd there's a non-negligible chance that at the level he's at now he could easily get sparked. He doesn't exactly havesolid fundamentals, lots of holes in his swing and a shaky chin mean he's always just one punch away from having his bubble burst. Wasn't he due about twenty million to fight Povetkin before Povetkin tested positive? Whatever the number was that's the one in his head dictating his decisions. He wants a risk free path to a similar payday which means getting Joshua in the ring asap. That's why he doesn't want to hear about mandatories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI think you are spot on. But need to consider why. And I think both sides know why. Because Wilder breaks his hand in every fight. There's a decent chance if the fight doesn't happen now it never happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Similarly if Joshua is at risk from any of the top contenders you've got to think Wilder's right hand is top of the list of risks. Wilder has the athleticism and the wingspan to land something big and Whyte showed Joshua's chin isn't rock solid either. So Team Joshua might well want to fight a bunch of mandatories and keep Wilder at arm's length for a while. I actually watched the Wilder video and started to watch the Eddie video but had to switch it off when he put sunglasses on and started doing a Wilder impression. There's only so much a man can take.
Bottom line is the Joshua money express can continue without worrying about Wilder too much. It's not like Wilder is a massive US star and could generate a million PPV views and a big casino cheque. Wilder needs to make himself unavoidable but doesn't fancy what t would take to get there and definitely his fragile hand factors into that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliWell put and it's also AJ frankly holds the cards now and is talking back to back huge fights Ortiz etc. Wilder is stuck and acts like he's stuck in that vid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland LaingAnd there's a non-negligible chance that at the level he's at now he could easily get sparked. He doesn't exactly havesolid fundamentals, lots of holes in his swing and a shaky chin mean he's always just one punch away from having his bubble burst. Wasn't he due about twenty million to fight Povetkin before Povetkin tested positive? Whatever the number was that's the one in his head dictating his decisions. He wants a risk free path to a similar payday which means getting Joshua in the ring asap. That's why he doesn't want to hear about mandatories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI think you are spot on. But need to consider why. And I think both sides know why. Because Wilder breaks his hand in every fight. There's a decent chance if the fight doesn't happen now it never happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Similarly if Joshua is at risk from any of the top contenders you've got to think Wilder's right hand is top of the list of risks. Wilder has the athleticism and the wingspan to land something big and Whyte showed Joshua's chin isn't rock solid either. So Team Joshua might well want to fight a bunch of mandatories and keep Wilder at arm's length for a while. I actually watched the Wilder video and started to watch the Eddie video but had to switch it off when he put sunglasses on and started doing a Wilder impression. There's only so much a man can take.
Bottom line is the Joshua money express can continue without worrying about Wilder too much. It's not like Wilder is a massive US star and could generate a million PPV views and a big casino cheque. Wilder needs to make himself unavoidable but doesn't fancy what t would take to get there and definitely his fragile hand factors into that.
It's a shame. It's probably the best fight to make out of all potential heavyweight fights but like you say Joshua holds the cards and Wilder is too much risk for too little reward.
Once again my stance is, their reasoning is sound if they would just be honest and say it it would be fine. The idea putting Wilder off is necessary just isn't true. This is make a lot of safe money, maybe not as much, but with more guarantee.
You can't just throw your belts in the bin then expect the sanctioning bodies to let you fight for them again straight away afterwards.
It's ridiculous to suggest AJ/Eddie's belt situation "excuse" doesn't wash because Wilder has a belt. So he knocks out Wilder then has the same fans saying - AJ needs to fight so and so for the ibf/wba title that he threw away. Ridiculous.
Wilder needs to get his own route sorted instead of "ducking" guys like Dillian Whyte when huge career high paydays are offered to him.
I like Wilder and his explosive power is the real deal. It's just that he's rather frail for his height and does not have a ton of boxing ability. Cheered him on as he bravely and cleverly outboxed Stiverne. However, when I saw Joshua for the first time against Martin, I knew he was the total package. I suspect Joshua hits nearly as hard as Wilder as well, but with world class boxing skills to go with the power.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkI like Wilder and his explosive power is the real deal. It's just that he's rather frail for his height and does not have a ton of boxing ability. Cheered him on as he bravely and cleverly outboxed Stiverne. However, when I saw Joshua for the first time against Martin, I knew he was the total package. I suspect Joshua hits nearly as hard as Wilder as well, but with world class boxing skills to go with the power.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Wilder wants a big huge pay day against AJ, after seeing what was earned in the Wlad v AJ fight.
It looks like there’s a 3 fight strategy for Joshua. Pulev-Mandatory, Ortiz -mandatory followed by a unification with Wilder. These are my early predictions on each fight
Of the 3, Ortiz and Wilder have potential to be most difficult. I’s not that Im giving Pulev no chance whatsoever but I think its relatively a safe 1st fight. Pulev loses his composure under fire. He did a lot of silly things vs Wvlad on his biggest night like standing on one foot when he got hurt, holding his chin high in the air vs the taller man and generally fighting the way Klitschko wanted him to fight instead of getting back to his jab. When Joshua begins to find the range I don’t see this one lasting too long to be honest
Ortiz is a good fight. I can picture the Cuban winning this if Joshua hasn’t learnt his lessons from the Klitschko fight. In particularly like going for broke and emptying his own gas tank when he has his guy hurt. For Ortiz to take advantage of this he will need Joshua to unload on him first and for that to happen Joshua has to see that he has Ortiz hurt. Given the quality of Ortiz, I don’t think there will be many opportunities for Joshua to unload on him. The likelihood is that the Brit will just win the rounds behind his jab and 1,2 without risking getting countered by the crafty veteran. Had Ortiz got his shot afew years ago I think he would’ve become champ but hes abit old now. Joshua on points in that one.
Wilder is the big fight. I don’t really rate Deontay but Ive always thought if someone taught him the basics of boxing and how to utilise the physical gifts he’s got, hed be a very hard man to beat. Hes athletic, got a great reach. Doesn’t appear to gas and if he learnt to control fights behind a strong left hand he would be the goods. My problem with him is he is afraid to step up in class to really test himself and in terms of his style technically he doesn’t throw his punches correctly. Hes not pretty to watch with his windmill punches and if he fights scared vs Joshua in that fashion he’d be blown away. It’s a hard fight to call because with Joshuas added weight hes abit stiff and there’s questions marks over his own chin as Dylan Whyte was able to wobble him momentarily. Even though I lean towards Joshua winning vs Wilder at the moment I do think that with a good trainer and exposure to a higher level of opponent, Wilder could turn out to be the best thing in the division. Like Fury before him, if guys can’t land on him, the awkward gangly style can work to his advantage and the Deontay does have the power to fall back on when needed. Fingers crossed this goes ahead next summer and Ill be interested to see Wilders opponents between now as it may change my mind on his chances. Right now I don’t think hes ready for Joshua.
Interesting reading the similar threads. One thing is for certain, this whole Wilder Joshua situation is completely ass backwards. Wilder is and has been for a few years basically waiting to cash in on a Joshua fight. A big powerful mouthy American heavyweight champ who in terms of the colour of his belt, length of service and number of defences, should be considered the main man of the division and something of a global star. Instead he's playing second fiddle to a Brit with half the number of fights and he's desperate to get a piece of the pie.
Some of that goes for Ortiz too. He's going to wait on Joshua by the looks of things and do fuck all for 18 months.
Will Wilder have a fight of any kind in the mean time? Unless he goes at Stivern again, Dillian Whyte is probably his best fight out there but he dont seem to want that, or the 4 million dollars that comes with it :-\
He definitely appears to be in the backseat right now. Reacting to divisions shifts rather than making them. Far as I know Stiverne is refusing any step aside exchange etc and the networks have shown little interest in picking this unneeded rematch up. Caught this a couple days ago chatting up Ortiz here...Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis
http://youtu.be/bjYLnTFXt7U
I can talk Joshua too. Wilder needs to fight Joshua.
Wilder has been champion longer than AJ and yet Joshua has fought the better fighter already. Wilder is getting more desperate for the big pay day against the Brit.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
How does he make Joshua fight? His only option is to wait because Joshua said the fight needs to build.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
I get that Wilder is incredibly flawed and his cv is garbage......but how boxing fandom has taken to favoring the popular guy when he admits he is delaying a fight and blaming the guy that wants the fight is beyond me.
Likewise, I'm amazed that boxing fandom means all a guy has to do is post a video saying he wants a fight and that's all she wrote, his obligation is complete and if the other guy doesn't respond accordingly he's ducking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonHow does he make Joshua fight? His only option is to wait because Joshua said the fight needs to build.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
I get that Wilder is incredibly flawed and his cv is garbage......but how boxing fandom has taken to favoring the popular guy when he admits he is delaying a fight and blaming the guy that wants the fight is beyond me.
What source are you referring to when you say Joshua is delaying this fight?
But to answer your question. He doesnt need to make him fight, they'll fight. What he could do... Is take the silly money on offer for bashing up Dillian Whyte, or he could earn less but clear matters up somewhat by bashing up Louis Ortiz. Wilder and Ortiz have both posted videos saying they want to fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonHow does he make Joshua fight? His only option is to waitQuote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
His only option is to wait? Seriously? You'd think he's have a bit more gumption, self respect, something..
AJ has 2 mandatories and that is the main reason he can not fight Wilder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonHow does he make Joshua fight? His only option is to wait because Joshua said the fight needs to build.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
I get that Wilder is incredibly flawed and his cv is garbage......but how boxing fandom has taken to favoring the popular guy when he admits he is delaying a fight and blaming the guy that wants the fight is beyond me.
Wilder could call him out and throw a few insults his way if he doesn't respondQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonHow does he make Joshua fight? His only option is to wait because Joshua said the fight needs to build.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
I get that Wilder is incredibly flawed and his cv is garbage......but how boxing fandom has taken to favoring the popular guy when he admits he is delaying a fight and blaming the guy that wants the fight is beyond me.
I'm not blaming Wilder, I'm just saying these two need to fight within the next 12 months
I like both guys and I'm not really rooting for anyone. I just want to see the fight.
Joshua said himself, no source, video. I'll be right back with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MemphisLikewise, I'm amazed that boxing fandom means all a guy has to do is post a video saying he wants a fight and that's all she wrote, his obligation is complete and if the other guy doesn't respond accordingly he's ducking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonHow does he make Joshua fight? His only option is to wait because Joshua said the fight needs to build.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaMo
I get that Wilder is incredibly flawed and his cv is garbage......but how boxing fandom has taken to favoring the popular guy when he admits he is delaying a fight and blaming the guy that wants the fight is beyond me.
What source are you referring to when you say Joshua is delaying this fight?
https://youtu.be/9pUPHiV7Qs8
This id just the first I've found, there are many "build it build it build it". It's also easy to find his promoter saying the same "build it" comment except adding another fight.
Master-no, that mandatory is not necessarily. Pulev or Wilder he is in the exact same spot. If he fights Wilder he loses a belt but he wins a belt. Same spot. Difference being he would probably be the mandatory coming back at the IBF.
It's a matter of taking the safer route.
And just for clarity, I really like AJ and hate Wilder. But people need to stop believing nonsense. If they want to fight they can fight. One guy says he wants it(maybe he does, maybe he doesn't) if the other guy wants it we get it.
I can go through fight after fight not being made where the popular fighter just gets a pass. It shouldn't matter who you like. We're boxing fans, we should want boxing.
Since links don't work in edits for some reason, here is it "Joshua says Wilder fight needs to build and explains why"
https://youtu.be/9pUPHiV7Qs8
There are many others, just added another fight into build time. First it was Klit then Pulev. Now it is Pulev then Ortiz. Dropped a fight but still the same amount of time hmmm
For clarity since I said Wilder can't force a AJ fight and I said he has no option he must wait, I did not mean he should sit idle. I meant wait on that fight. I'd love to see him take a tough fight, I just don't expect it.
My problem is this fight has already been talked about a long time. But it was "let them become champions first" from a business perspective that makes sense. But from a wanting to see the fight perspective, no fight.
Then it was it needs to build.
Then Klit fight, great business move, no fight though.
Then it was Klit rematch and Pulev, then we will.
Now it is Pulev and another fight then we will. We are no closer to the fight. Earlier Eddie was "I want a Wilder fight in 2017" now it is Pulev and another fight. We are 2/3 of the way through 2017 and 2 more fights before a AJ/Wilder fight by their opinion. That means we would be lucky to see it in 2018 at the rate people fight.
And it's delayed under the false pretense that these 2 fights between are necessary. They aren't. They make sense for money, if the safest route to money is the goal. For a promoter, sure, for the fighter and his family, sure. But for fans that want to see a fight, no.
The interviewer was leading AJ about building the fight.
AJ said he has to fight Pulev, now that we know Wlad has retired.
All of this just goes to show how difficult it is when you have multiple belts to make the big fights.
Wlad used to get untold amounts of shit for some of the guys he fought . Now people are realizing that you have an endless stream of mandatories. so what do you do? drop a belt or two? what's the fucking point, the whole idea is to become the undisputed champion and have all the belts. you work hard to get them, then you have to drop them. can't be right, can it?
of course, when it was Wlad he was ducking people, now it's AJ , people have seen the light!
As for Wilder, he can talk as much as he likes, because he knows the fight can't be made just yet. If he wants the fight, and it can't be made yet, you don't fucking whinge and mope about it. go out there and make some decent fights , and if you're good enough, you'll beat these guys and maybe, just maybe, become the "A-Side".
Wilder has to face Stiverne (or give him step aside money) to keep his bogus title.
Joshua tells the truth about his belt situation, Wilder bullshits. Actions speak louder than words.
This is a consequence of
a) there are too many alphabet mickey mouse belts around
b) most of the belt organisations are corrupt and have favoured promoters and fighters
c) heavyweights fight far less frequently so..
d) the risks of losing are financially greater
With respect to point c) look at the difference with MW or SMW! Far more frequent 'world' title fights because they basically box for less money, there are more of them, and with respect to point d) the odd o on their record is not career ending.
That's sorted then.
Well,,, except for the fact that I would be willing wager that a lot of MW's and SMW's have earned a lot higher purses than Wilder.Quote:
Originally Posted by nuggetdotcom
Probably true but Wilder has, as Joshua, fought a few stiffs on his way there. The MW's and SMW's keep on fighting despite the 0's, and the public will pay because its relatively genuine fights, for example look at Froch,Groves,Eubank, Calzaghe, Benn et al, all Brits who made it in America. Wilder has yet to make a dent in Europe and to be fair Joshua has yet to conquer the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraWell,,, except for the fact that I would be willing wager that a lot of MW's and SMW's have earned a lot higher purses than Wilder.Quote:
Originally Posted by nuggetdotcom