Should Floyd be P4P number 1(really good read)

http://www.maxboxing.com/Fischer/Fischer0403a06.asp
MAYWEATHER & THE DUMBASSES
Man some of the guys that e-mail you are F-N idiots. I think your p4p list is pretty fair, Floyd knows who Margarito is, he's just scared s__tless to get in the ring with the "Bad Ass", Judah has a real good chance of whippin the Pretty Boy, and I'll also go on record on this: If Oscar really does fight Floyd in September Floyd will get put to sleep that night, without a doubt, now put that on the boards....I can't stand some of these dumbasses who act like they know s__t about boxing......Thanx and keep up the good work. – Stephen OK, Stephen. Take it easy, bra, its Floyd and Zab who are getting ready to fight, not you. (Jeez, I’m glad you agree with my pound-for-pound list; I’d be scared if you didn’t.)
I’ll say this about you, Steve, I admire your willingness to go on record with your prediction BEFORE the fight takes place. We’ll find out in a matter of days if Judah can erase all the inconsistency and failed expectations of his career with one victory. Then we can talk about those other fights.

NO. 1 POUND-FOR-POUND IDIOT

doug man come on. floyd #4. how many world champs have moved 2 weight classes in the past year or two, and won by ko? winky #1? wtf? he is a lazy ass one naded fighter who gets tirde late in fights, he is not fun to watch, ya he beat tito, but tito was off for ever before beating a terrible no style fighter like mayorga, and know he is #1? hmmmmm, who has he beat since, sma soliman? WOW, he should be #1, sam soliman is a espn2 friday night fights fighter, who was damn close to beating winky on the cards, so thats pretty pathetic!! am i wrong? ok he beat sugar shane, but shane is washed up and had been before winky fought him. tell me this, why is every fighter floyd fights and soanks, a good fighter before he fights them and a good fighter after he fights them, but when he dismantles them, they are s__tty fighters? floyds talent alone is #1, he is too well schooled, he has masterted his art. there is no way in hell a lazy one handed fighter like winky wright is EVER gonna beat floyd. floyd is #1 p4p, winky 2, i agree with that. and too say that 97 out of 100 people are wrong, and you in the 3% is right, odds arent with ya or those numbers so maybe ya should, stop hating and give floyd his props and not just try and be different and start a stupid ass controvesary. doug floyd at 4? that is so f__kin unlogical it makes you look stupid as f__k bro. get with the real program. publish this on you next free mailbag, id like to see what response i get from you, im really curious- thans – greg rowe, Colorado

Greg, I decided not to edit your email (except for bleeping out your curse words) to show your fellow fans how deranged and confused you truly are. Why would you criticize Wright’s recent competition (and even the competition of his competition) when Mayweather has fought the likes of Sharmba Mitchell and Henry Bruseles in the past 16 months? You’re just opening your legs for a swift kick in the balls. Are you ready to get them nads crushed?

All Winky has done in the last two years is unify the 154-pound division (and what division did PBF even partially unify?) and beat two fighters who were ranked inside of everybody’s top 15. Every single boxing writer, website and publication that says Floyd Mayweather is the no. 1 fighter, pound for pound, ranked Mosley in their top 10 before Winky beat his ass in that first fight; and they all – from Dan Rafael to Mike Katz to Steve Kim to Greg Leon – ranked Trinidad between 11 and 15, pound for pound, before Winky spanked the Puerto Rican icon. That’s TWO top 15 P4P players the Winkster defeasted. When was the last time Mayweather fought a guy ranked in anyone’s top 15? Oh yeah, I remember now, it was three and half years ago, some Mexican guy; WBC lightweight title holder, right? I seem to recall that dude getting’ in Pretty Boy’s ass during the second half of that fight. I don’t know about those scorecards after the fight, bro-hams. Four and five points for your boy? Naaaaaah….. Maybe Mayweather won it by ONE point. MAYBE! Maybe he lost it by a point or two. And the rematch? Ugh. Whole lot of nothin’. PBF didn’t remind me of Sugar Ray Leonard in there.

The fact that you have to ask me what other champs have moved up two weight classes and won by KO tells me that you’re not even paying attention to the sport and you have NO IDEA how good or bad Mayweather’s opponents are.

So what if a guy as talented as Mayweather moves up in weight and scores KOs? It doesn’t mean much if he’s going after hand-picked opposition. If Manny Pacquiao moved from 122 pounds to 126 and took on Manuel Medina and Derrick Gainer instead of Marco Antonio Barrera and Juan Manuel Marquez, his jump in weight wouldn’t have meant that much would it? (I know YOUR silly ass wouldn’t have given him any credit.) If Pac jumped from 126 to 130 to take on Mike Anchondo or Jorge Barrios instead of Erik Morales, it wouldn’t have meant as much would it? When Mayweather moved to 140 pounds in May of ’04, he didn’t take on Kostya Tszyu, the undisputed champ at the time, he fought former WBO title holder DeMarcus Corley. OK, that’s cool. Nice win. Then PBF beat Bruseles (who cares aside from you?) and Gatti (who had a title that was stripped from Tszyu). The Gatti win made Floyd a belt holder at 140, and probably the top contender, but not the champ. He didn’t beat “the man”; he didn’t beat a top five pound for pound guy, get it? (Probably not.)

I know Mayweather looked great smashing Gatti at 140 pounds, but does that compare with what Pac did at featherweight? I don’t think so. Pacquiao went up in weight to fight the universally recognized champ at 126 (Barrera) and he destroyed him. Pac followed up by taking on JMM, who held two alphabet titles. To equal what Pac did at featherweight, PBF would have had to take on Tszyu in his first fight at 140 (and destroy him), and then fight a top-ranked title holder at the time (Zab Judah or Vivian Harris). After the Marquez fight, Pac jumped to 130 pounds and fought Morales. To equal that, Mayweather would have had to go from 140 to 147 and take on a big, strong battle tested badass like Antonio Margarito; he didn’t do that. PBF fought Sharmba Mitchell. If Mayweather took on Margarito at 147 and lost (the way Pac did vs. Morales in their first fight) I would have given him more credit than I did for his victory vs. Mitchell. If Mayweather KO’d Margarito in a rematch the way Pac did vs. ‘El Terrible’, I would have jumped PBF to no. 1.

There’s a reason I have Wright and the PacMonster in my first two P4P slots and not your hero. (And you still probably don’t understand why.) Honestly, he’s lucky to be at no. 4 on my list. It’s only because of my respect for his truly special blend of natural talent, dedication to his craft and his past accomplishments that I even have him in my top 5.

NOT ANOTHER NUT-HUGGER -- REALLY!

Doug again congrats for the site, I never got the T but hey!!
We've exchanged e-mails before always a pleasure, you take the time and I appreciate that and what is more is that I respect your opinions and angles on boxing! You bring out the best and worst of us in this "sanguine" sport where tempers can flare as in nothing else in the world. Besides Soccer in Europe no other sport brings so much emotion and involvement then boxing!!
Enough praises lol!

I don't know what went down with the negotiations between Hatton and PBF, but Mayweather would totally expose Hatton and the fight would be stopped on cuts by the 10th max.

And Margarito?? I think it would be easier then Hatton, much easier, lets face it Corrales I love the dude but he's a stiff no lateral movements there to be hit. A proud warrior indeed "take it dish it". Mayweather destroyed him 5 knockdowns etc...

This is not a nuthuggin fest on my part, just that Hatton is gettin a paycheck then he knows he will have to face Floyd he will never touch him!! It's not Mayweather's fault if Judah lost his last fight!
He will never turn down anyone noway. And let me ask this question:

How come no promoters is actually using this situation to publicly challenge Mayweather's integrity in the sense of calling him out like in the old days!! I tell you why cuz they are milking, they get a pay day with Hatton maybe another fight then Floyd destroys him easy. Simple as that!

Much love and respect! – Denis, MontrealDenis, I don’t think you’re nut-hugger but I don’t think you understand how added weight and styles impact fights. It’s silly to compare Corrales to Margarito. Mayweather fought Chico at 130 pounds, his prime weight. If PBF fights Margarito it will be at 147 pounds. Believe me, his punches won’t have the effect on Tony that they had on Mitchell (and will probably have on Judah). And more to the point, Margarito doesn’t fight like at all like Corrales! Chico is a stalker who looks for one big shot and doesn’t cut off the ring. Margarito is a volume-punching pressure fighter, who actually has a jab! It’s a different fight! Mayweather’s fought one true pressure fighter in his career – Jesus Chavez. I thought he looked awesome in that bout, but it sure wasn’t an easy win. That makes me wonder what would happen if he took on a strong young man like Hatton, who has a good chin, knows how to close the gap and cut off the ring, and puts on even more pressure and throws more punches than Chavez did at 130 pounds. I think it’s an even fight, same with Margarito. I’m not saying Mayweather can’t win both bouts, but I don’t think he’ll do it easy – and that’s why I want to see those two fights.

PPV ON THE INTERNET

dougie,
im going to be in colombia MO doing some dent repair and im afraid im going to miss the mayweather judah fight. Is there anyway i can watch it over the internet?? Please let me know. If you could respond back to my email if you wouldnt mind. Also, who do u like? I have to lean towards Mayweather for a couple of reasons. One: hes never really been hurt. He has a good beard. Two: he may very well have hands just as fast as judah. Three: Judah has to fight a perfect fight. One mistake and he will get tko'd. The only way judah wins this fight is land a big punch or box like he did against spinks in the rematch. Four: and my final point. Judah is considered the bigger puncher of the two, but judah's chin is going to make mayweather the boss in the ring and i guarantee he's going to hit zab. Ironically, im pulling for judah. But i believe that mayweather is going to be our generations Sugar Ray.

love your site. and im extremely jealous. im a rabid boxing fan among no fans of the sport. i have never been to a pro fight. i bought tickets to the castillo v corrales rubbermatch and of course, my man got hurt. I have always disliked mayweather for destroying my boy chico. mayweather really made a name for himself after that fight and has had my attention every since. thanks for your time. – jackie hill, dent magic, san angelo, txThere’s no way to watch the fight on the Net, Jackie, but there might be a bar or club in town that is carrying the fight. Columbia is a college town (home of Mizzou and a darn good journalism masters program) so there are a lot of sports bars that you can call up and check on. If not, maybe someone you know in town will be willing to buy the PPV if you pay for it (or at least go in with them and bring some beer).

THE OTHER DOUGIE

I read all the major sites and I have been reading them for awhile, out of all of them you’re my favorite writer. Although some of the stuff you say I don't agree with (Jeremy Williams beating Roy Jones, or a completely untested Valero knocking out Morales) I do agree with most.

I got PBF 3rd on my P4p list ahead of Barrera. You can find me in the boxingtalk chat rooms giving him s__t about his competition every Monday. I usually go under the neme rocbox, but last week i went under your name it was fun i was s__tin on those floyd cheerleaders. I was surprised in your mailbag that you didn't mention Kosta Tysu as someone Floyd should of fought. I am in law school right now studying entertainment law and plan on becoming the next Bob Arum, so I'm confident our paths will cross some day. I have a friend doing a lot of the leg work for me right now establishing a lot of contacts for when the time comes. Peace – Jon
So YOU’RE the imposter Dougie! Stop that you rascal! I don’t need any extra beef with the Pretty Boys or the good folks over at BoxingTalk.

I have mentioned Kostya Tszyu as a fighter I would have loved to see Floyd take on (along with Joel Casamayor, Acelino Freitas, and Steve Johnston) in the past. By the way, I still think J-Will could have zapped RJ at cruiser or heavyweight, and that my son could have taken out El Terrible. Good luck with law school.

DOUGIE ON BT

Dougie –
I have been a member of Max for about 3-4 years and it is the premium site on boxing. However, I always venture to some of the other sites (especially the interview one - BTalk). I came across a chat transcript with Bob Arum and one of the posters had your name and asked the following question:

douglas_fishcer: In a beyond the glory interview you said Roy Jones was the best fighter of this era. Now you claim Mayweather’s the best. Can I assume you a bias b/c you are his promoter? I remember you saying Cotto would chase him (PBF) out of the ring.

Arum responded saying RJ was the best of his era but Floyd has blossomed. He continued to state that Floyd is the best since Ali… high praise indeed.

Two questions:

1. Was that you at Btalk?
2. Is Floyd the best since Ali?

I continue to wish you success with the site. – AC1. No.
2. HELL no!

I don’t think I’ve even been on a MaxBoxing chat. I guess I have fans who like to chat with promoters on BoxingTalk. It’s all good. If I ever did participate in a chat with Bob Arum I wouldn’t bother with such a naïve question. Bob’s a promoter, he says what ever is necessary to hype a particular boxing event that he’s involved with. When Oscer De La Hoya was his franchise player, the Golden Boy was as great as Hagler, Leonard, Hearns, etc. I know that he knows better. Bob has a brilliant business AND boxing mind.

I’ll say this about Mayweather and Ali; PBF has a more complete boxing game and better technique than “the Greatest” possessed, but he is not cut from the same mold. I don’t think he’s as tough as Ali, and despite his constant bravado, I don’t believe he has the same level of self-belief as the former three-time heavyweight champ had – but then, who does?

WHY IS MAXBOXING HATIN’ SO MUCH?

Dougie:
Just wanted to chime in on the lack of enthusiasm for the Mayweather-Judah bout on April 8. I feel like asking "what seems to be the problem here?". Is Judah not the fastest fighter that Mayweather has EVER fought? Doesn't he have explosive KO power and loads of natural ability?

I see Judah as one of three real threats to Mayweather's p4p crown (according to my rankings) at welterweight, the others being Hatton & Margarito. Sure, this matchup lost much of its luster after Judah's loss, but didn't he still decisively beat Chop Chop Corley & Corey Spinks, both of whom are above avg boxers? Is there a dispute that Judah has the physical ability to give Mayweather a better fight than Bruseles, N'Dou, Gatti or Mitchell gave him?

I guess what I don't understand is why the media criticizes Mayweather to such an extent. I agree that he's due for a big fight (which I think we have here), but it also sounds like some of the top competition doesn't want to fight him. You Maxboxing guys are supposed to be boxing experts, and you must know that boxing is not only about the best fighting the best (b/c it really doesn't happen much). Boxing unfortunately involves rival promoters and cable giants, risk/reward considerations (that's what a manager is for), too many weight divisions & titles, etc.

Why didn't Mayweather fight the winner/loser of Freitas-Casamayor at 130? Do you really think he was scared or was it b/c the others fought for Showtime? If he was scared, why did he end up fighting Corrales & Castillo instead? Why didn't Mayweather fight Hatton? Didn't Hatton's reps themselves say that he won't be ready for Mayweather until 2007? These are top fights that Mayweather hasn't fought, but I don't see where he is to blame for these. Each matchup would have been or could be PPV fights that would generate a lot of money for him not to take them.

I realize that the unanswered question is what about Margarito. The answer is that there is a date already reserved for July to stage that fight. I know that I would like to see the Judah match first, and if you look at how this fight is selling, many other fans agree. We've already seen Mayweather fight the monster punchers, I want to see how he handles someone as fast and agile as he is. Still, if he gets by Judah, I'd rather see him fight Hatton before Margarito. It's just unfinished business from 140.

Just a few thoughts, let me know what you think. - Manny Blanco

I’ve never said or written that Mayweather was SCARED of Acelino Freitas or Joel Casamayor. (How could I know what he’s feeling?) All I’ve said is that I would have liked to see those fights. The only people who wouldn’t have cared to see those fights at 130 or 135 are Pretty Boy Nut Huggers. Real fans want to see good fights – period. I know there were network roadblocks to making Mayweather vs. Freitas or Casamayor when they all had 130-pound titles but if PBF knew those fights would never happen then why did he crash their post-fight press conference in January of ’02 and challenge both of them? Did he want to convince the press and public that he was willing to try and make those bouts happen or did he just want to be an annoying little p__ck?

I’m not sure why you bring up Mayweather’s past accomplishments with me. I know he beat Corrales and Castillo. I lauded him as an all-time great at 130 pounds. He was a top 3 pound for pound player by the end of ’02, and stayed in that range on my lists until the start of ’05 (when he selected Henry Bruseles as a dance partner instead of someone with a pulse). By that time, he had gone two full years without facing an elite fighter, and he only entered the ring three times in those 24 months. If a champ is only going to fight once or twice a year, he has to do it vs. the best, not fringe contenders (Victoriano Sosa), over-hyped prospects (Philip Ndou) and former title holders who were coming off of a loss (DeMarcus Corely). Otherwise, he has to expect his status to drop (at least with me); especially if his peers are only taking on challenging fights vs. one another (Corrales-Castillo-Casamayor; Barrera-Morales-Pacquiao; Wright-Mosley/Trinidad). I trust you get the picture, and that you are beginning to understand my rationale for my rankings and criticism. I also hope that one day you will come to understand that criticism and analysis are not the same things as “hate” or “hating”.

You point out yourself: “Sure, this matchup lost much of its luster after Judah's loss, but didn't he still decisively beat Chop Chop Corley & Corey Spinks, both of whom are above avg boxers?”

All the critics of this bout (and I must point out that most of the so-called mainstream media is just hyping the fight up along with Bob Arum, Don King, Floyd Mayweather and HBO PPV) have said or written is that the fight has lost its luster – just like you stated in your email. Gee, does admitting that make you one of the “haters” now? Are you going to be banned from BoxingTalk chats now? I hope not, because in my world, that statement only means that you have a normal-functioning brain.

You mention that Judah beat Corely and Spinks. Yes he did, and I gave him credit for those wins, just like I discredited him for his loss to Baldomir. If you fans are going to make a big deal out of Mayweather’s undefeated record, you can’t discount losses – especially to the likes of Baldomir.

You ask if “there is a dispute that Judah has the physical ability to give Mayweather a better fight than Bruseles, N'Dou, Gatti or Mitchell gave him?”

No, there isn’t; but isn’t that an indictment on the quality of PBF’s opposition over the past three years? And do you think that Judah is the only fighter out there who can give Mayweather better fights than the guys you mentioned? Beyond Hatton (who isn’t ready to fight PBF this year) and Margarito (who was born ready), don’t you think that Joel Casamayor, Julio Diaz, Acelino Freitas, Junior Witter, Vivian Harris, Juan Lazcano, and even Lovemore Ndou ALSO have the physical ability (as well as the experience and skills) to give PBF a better fight than Bruseles, Ndou, Gatti or Mitchell?

F__K FLOYD!

As far as Margarito and Santos, I'm tired of hearing people talk about how Margarito lost. Most of those people didn't even see that fight and it was TD. When I do pound for pound lists my biggest dtermination is whether or not the guy beats the top guys, or is at least fighting them and putting on a good performance. Pacman beat Barerra and Morales two top ten guys (KO'd them), Mayweather has never beaten a top ten pound for pound guy, at least not when he fought them. Gernaro hernandez was coming off a loss when they fought. Basically what I'm saying is boxing fans need to get facts straight...being the best is about fighting the best. If I have to wonder what happens betwen two top fighters if they would have fought, that means either the fighters didn't want to fights or their promoters didn't want them to fight. The fight fans are what matters, and we know what we want to see. I'm sure more people would pay to see Mayweather /Margarito than Floyd vs Mitchell, but for some reason he doesn't deserve a shot. Come on man, it's about heart and respect. Don't lie and say that people don't want to see it. All excuses aside. If you're a great fighter, you'll fight anybody. – Kevin Perry

I think Mayweather falls short of having the balls of recent great ones like Pernell Whitaker and Ray Leonard, however, you're wrong about Hernandez coming off a loss before he fought Mayweather. “Chicanito” was the reigning WBC 130-pound champ when he fought PBF – and he was on a six fight win streak, including the great Azumah Nelson – however, he was getting old and he was beginning to really struggle to make 130 pounds... I remember how tired and worn out he looked in the gym (the L.A. Boxing Club) before that fight.

BUT I do think it's telling that the two best fighters Mayweather has fought since JL Castillo - Zab and Chop Chop - were both coming off losses.

BORGES & MAYWEATHER-JUDAH

Better yet, should I say Judah/Mayweather since Judah's "title" is at stake? Anyway, I enjoyed your analysis of Ron Borges’ HBO.com column in the mail bag, and I'd like to elaborate on a point that you started. How does Borges have the gall to dismiss Baldomir's unflattering record in the same column in which he admonishes "latter-day critics" for putting down Mayweather's choice of opponent? Everyone knows that a lot of top fighters back in the day had 10 or more losses on their records - hell, we've got Glen Johnson and his 10 losses around right now, and just about everyone has him as the number 2 or even tied-for-number 1 light heavyweight in the world. Also, wouldn't Mayweather make more money fighting Margarito than Judah since Antonio would probably fight for a smaller percentage of the purse? I try not to think about the financials too much, so you'll have to help me out with that one.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with Mayweather fighting Judah, but I think that Baldomir or Margarito would be more challenging fights for him because of the whole size/chin/toughness factor. I would probably pick him to beat both guys, but they won't run or start reading the wine list when things get tough in the ring. Thanks and take care. – Wilson
You make a good point about Borges dismissing Baldomir because of the Argentine’s crappy record. If you dismiss the real 147-pound champ, do so because of his lack of skills and talent. I think Mayweather could beat Baldomir blind folded. Margarito is another story.

MAYWEATHER AND THE ‘MIDNIGHT OIL’

Keep up the good work but I think you sniffed too much of the midnight oil writing your pound for pound. Wright over Mayweather as the best??? Just in 2003 Mitchell was the true #1 contender and earned his rematch with Tzuyu. Gatti has a run going by beating Ward, Leija, Dorin and Branco. Corley is a top ten 140lb fighter who only lost to Judah, Cotto, and Mayweather. True, Mayweather hasn't beat another pound-er in a minute but has decisively beat guys on your list while Wright beat an already beat Trinidad and smaller and somewhat exposed Mosley but lost to Vargas, Vasquez, and Simon. Name a prime fighter he beat or someone who had a significant win after Wright beat them??? Until Floyd's 0 goes he is #1. Margarito lost twice to Santos who is good but no where near Judah and Mayweather is skill and power so why bother. I agree Judah should have earned the fight by winning a tune-up first. Peace and Hair grease – Derek JacksonMayweather was top 3 P4P from '01 through '03, but then he only fought once in '04 (Chop) and has been bullsh__ting ever since. He's dominance post-135 pounds is an illusion, considering the best guys he'll have faced at 140 and 147 – since fighting Castillo three years ago – is Corley and Judah, BOTH of whom were coming off losses.

The win over Gatti was impressive, but despite Thunder's no. 1 ranking by The Ring, I could name at least five 140-pound fighters who would have wiped their asses with the wanna-be boxer brawler, and another five who would have at least given him hell.

I'd have given PBF a lot of credit if he had whupped Mitchell in '03, but he beat the 35-year-old vet at the end of '05, so no props to Floyd for that waste of time, and of course zero credit for slapping around Henry Bruseles.

At least Wright is fighting guys who are not coming off losses

Doug Fischer, respected writer, answering queiries. Excellent responses, logical and reflects my thinking. What do you guys think?

Good read. Good arguments. IMO Floyd, Wright, and Pac should be everyones top 3 p4p. You can battle all day about who should be one. I give Winky the edge because of his recent comp. You can say the same about Pac, but he stays at three because of the loss to Morrales{that loss is an honorable one, to say the least}. Floyd gets an advantage because of 0 losses. If Floyd and Wright lose their next matches{especially if they are close}, they still stay in the top ten because of who they lost to. Which would catapult Pac to 1. If both Floyd and Wright win, It's a hard choice. Even though I'm a Floyd fan, I give the nod to Wright. Mosely twice, Soliman,Tito, and Taylor. Noone else in boxing at this time can say they have defeated a string of opponents like that. X- Factor= If Wright wins a SD or anything close, and Floyd demolishes Zab{we'll say inside five}, does Floyd get credit? Or does everyone chalk it up as Zab is washed up? Only time will tell. Regardless, Pac, Floyd, and Wright are 1,2,and 3 p4p.

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

Good read. Good arguments. IMO Floyd, Wright, and Pac should be everyones top 3 p4p. You can battle all day about who should be one. I give Winky the edge because of his recent comp. You can say the same about Pac, but he stays at three because of the loss to Morrales{that loss is an honorable one, to say the least}. Floyd gets an advantage because of 0 losses. If Floyd and Wright lose their next matches{especially if they are close}, they still stay in the top ten because of who they lost to. Which would catapult Pac to 1. If both Floyd and Wright win, It's a hard choice. Even though I'm a Floyd fan, I give the nod to Wright. Mosely twice, Soliman,Tito, and Taylor. Noone else in boxing at this time can say they have defeated a string of opponents like that. X- Factor= If Wright wins a SD or anything close, and Floyd demolishes Zab{we'll say inside five}, does Floyd get credit? Or does everyone chalk it up as Zab is washed up? Only time will tell. Regardless, Pac, Floyd, and Wright are 1,2,and 3 p4p.

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Gotta agree with ya, although Winky's poor showing against Soliman, despite the win gave me doubts, but still it's gotta be those three at the top, probably followed by some combination of Hatton, Calzaghe and Barrera. My top 10 goes Winky, PBF, Pacman, Barrera, Hatton, Calzaghe, Castillo, Ivan Calderon, Taylor, Bell

I gotta say I don't think it's really a good read, I think the guy just doesn't like PBF. Saying Oscar will no doubt crush him in the first paragraph pretty much ended any possibility of reading an objective article... In all honesty, based on recent accomplishments there is a little bit of a dispute as to FLoyds p4p reign, but that's the only way it's even close imo. If you look at p4p solely on the basis of what have you done for me lately then sure, Pac and Winky deserve to be right up there with him.. But I just think Floyd is more talented and well rounded than either of them, and a better overall fighter by a considerable stretch. Besides he still has plenty of time left and there are really only a few opponents people care to see him face, considering he is now scheduled to face Judah then noone can criticize him until he accounces his next move. What if he were to fight Hatton or Margarito after that? If that match was agreed to and scheduled then that would make him again no.1 in this writers mind? Give me a break, you know.. Fights need to happen before the rankings change, you can't say he isn't fighting this person next week and it must be because he is ducking them and therefore they must be better than him. theres a bit more to boxing then that..

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Originally Posted by p4pking

I gotta say I don't think it's really a good read, I think the guy just doesn't like PBF. Saying Oscar will no doubt crush him in the first paragraph pretty much ended any possibility of reading an objective article... In all honesty, based on recent accomplishments there is a little bit of a dispute as to FLoyds p4p reign, but that's the only way it's even close imo. If you look at p4p solely on the basis of what have you done for me lately then sure, Pac and Winky deserve to be right up there with him.. But I just think Floyd is more talented and well rounded than either of them, and a better overall fighter by a considerable stretch. Besides he still has plenty of time left and there are really only a few opponents people care to see him face, considering he is now scheduled to face Judah then noone can criticize him until he accounces his next move. What if he were to fight Hatton or Margarito after that? If that match was agreed to and scheduled then that would make him again no.1 in this writers mind? Give me a break, you know.. Fights need to happen before the rankings change, you can't say he isn't fighting this person next week and it must be because he is ducking them and therefore they must be better than him. theres a bit more to boxing then that..

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I thought there was a few good arguments, but I do agree that the guy just doesn't like Floyd. I also agree that Floyd is by far the best overall fighter.

No guys guys,Doug Fischer answers the questions, the first part is a random gys asking question or making statment, Fisher agrees/disgrees etc. The resposes are from Fischer and alllll are valid. Fishcer does not say they are better than Floyd but we have to go waaaaaaaaaaaay back to see Floyd's last big wins.Too long. and beatin Zab,a guy who should not be champ and was beaten recently by Baldomir, does not enhance that does it!
You guys want me to highlight so you can see answer/question?

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Originally Posted by The Game

No guys guys,Doug Fischer answers the questions, the first part is a random gys asking question or making statment, Fisher agrees/disgrees etc. The resposes are from Fischer and alllll are valid. Fishcer does not say they are better than Floyd but we have to go waaaaaaaaaaaay back to see Floyd's last big wins.Too long. and beatin Zab,a guy who should not be champ and was beaten recently by Baldomir, does not enhance that does it!
You guys want me to highlight so you can see answer/question?

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Like I said, some valid arguments, and overall a good read. Whoever the one guy is,IMO he's a hater. Floyd is still undefeated, and he may not deserve to be #1 p4p, but he is definately top 3. IMO top 2.

I definitely agree, PBF should be in all top3 of everyone P4P list, I juat don't think number 1.

Doug Fischer is by a long chalk the most objective, rational boxing agony-aunt on the web. He's not a hater - God, I'm so effing tired of that meaningless term! His opinions are based on sound logic and almost always consistent criteria. He's already given Floyd his props as an all-time great, a breath-taking talent and a guaranteed hall-of-famer for his achievements at 130 and 135 - BUT points out that Pretty-Boy has not fought an opponent even close to being worthy of his undoubted skills for THREE AND A HALF YEARS!
Now, we all have our favourite fighters (me, I'm a Pacman) but please don't let your personal preferences turn your brains to jelly. We won't know how effective Floyd truly is at 140 or 147 until he fights an elite boxer from either division. I'd really like to see him do that but please don't be covering PB's perineum with tender little cat-licks until he does something worth getting excited about. That's all D-Fish is saying.
'Haters' - Jeez! That word just closes down all sane debate, don't it?
Oh, and remember Don Curry before you choke down too many inches of an undefeated superstar's d*ck.

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Originally Posted by Enrique

Doug Fischer is by a long chalk the most objective, rational boxing agony-aunt on the web. He's not a hater - God, I'm so effing tired of that meaningless term! His opinions are based on sound logic and almost always consistent criteria. He's already given Floyd his props as an all-time great, a breath-taking talent and a guaranteed hall-of-famer for his achievements at 130 and 135 - BUT points out that Pretty-Boy has not fought an opponent even close to being worthy of his undoubted skills for THREE AND A HALF YEARS!
Now, we all have our favourite fighters (me, I'm a Pacman) but please don't let your personal preferences turn your brains to jelly. We won't know how effective Floyd truly is at 140 or 147 until he fights an elite boxer from either division. I'd really like to see him do that but please don't be covering PB's perineum with tender little cat-licks until he does something worth getting excited about. That's all D-Fish is saying.
'Haters' - Jeez! That word just closes down all sane debate, don't it?
Oh, and remember Don Curry before you choke down too many inches of an undefeated superstar's d*ck.

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Wright should be #1 p4p, and if Pac hadn't lost to Morrales, and had a draw with Marquez, he'd be 1 or 2. But Floyd is undefeated, regardless of weight. So, Floyd hasn't fought the top guys recently, he drops to #2. Who are you going to put ahead of him? Barrera? Hatton because of 1 big win? Noone. I don't hear you hacking on Hatton for fighting Collazo. I don't hear you hacking on Pac for fighting Larious. Both, Larious and Collazo are good fighters, about the same caliber as Gatti and Mitchell. You hack on Floyd because he is the best p4p. Why not the other guys? I totally agree, Floyd should step up the comp. Well, here is the forecast: Zab, then Oscar or Margarito, then the other one. Stiff enough competition? Everyone complains Floyd this, Floyd that, but don't complain when other fighters do the same things. Sounds exactly like some haters to me.

I think Pac is no.1

P4P to me means if the boxer was simply bigger or smaller, how would he fare in the other divisions. If Winky was at 130 pounds I don't think he would be any better than Morales or Barrera.

Now Pac started his career at Lt Flyweight, between that and the weight he fought Morales at (who only had 2 damn close losses to Barrera his whole career) there is Flyweight, Super Flyweight, Bantamweight, Super Bantamweight and Featherweight where he avenged his loss with a ko. Lets see Winky move up and knock out Antonio Tarver?

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Originally Posted by The Game

I definitely agree, PBF should be in all top3 of everyone P4P list, I juat don't think number 1.

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These guys are Pretty Boys, The Game. :hypnotized: You can't convince a Pretty Fanboy anything.

They can't see the forest for the trees. You can argue with reason and valid arguments and they'll blow it off as "you just don't like Floyd."

Believe me, I've tried. It's a waste of time. haha

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Originally Posted by Gyrokai

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Originally Posted by The Game

I definitely agree, PBF should be in all top3 of everyone P4P list, I juat don't think number 1.

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These guys are Pretty Boys, The Game. :hypnotized: You can't convince a Pretty Fanboy anything.

They can't see the forest for the trees. You can argue with reason and valid arguments and they'll blow it off as "you just don't like Floyd."

Believe me, I've tried. It's a waste of time. haha

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Sorry, I'm a little harsh, but ...
... you gotta admit Floyd stopped fighting at the elite level, for more than three years.

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Originally Posted by Gyrokai

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Originally Posted by The Game

I definitely agree, PBF should be in all top3 of everyone P4P list, I juat don't think number 1.

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These guys are Pretty Boys, The Game. :hypnotized: You can't convince a Pretty Fanboy anything.

They can't see the forest for the trees. You can argue with reason and valid arguments and they'll blow it off as "you just don't like Floyd."

Believe me, I've tried. It's a waste of time. haha

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I'm a Floyd fan and I say Wright should be #1, Floyd 2. Pac 3.

Who would you put ahead of him? Fill me with your knowledge. Please.

Unknown, wow, they make you! :) And number two is still two high! haha :D

I say Pacquiao is number one, but Winky at number one, with his dominance and consistency has earned his respect, even if I'm not a big fan of Winky you can't deny him his status. Here's a quote from Doug Fischer, in case anyone wants the...

Cliff Notes from Gyrokai.

BUT I do think it's telling that the two best fighters Mayweather has fought since JL Castillo - Zab and Chop Chop - were both coming off losses.

Wow, nice quote from Dougie! Go get'em Dougie!
I used to not like this guy, Fischer, now I understand that he bases all his arguments on reason. He also admits when he's wrong. I don't agree with him all the time, I even met him after the Morales Pacquiao I fight, and told him, to his face, that
"I don't agree with you all the time." haha

Check this out:
You ask if “there is a dispute that Judah has the physical ability to give Mayweather a better fight than Bruseles, N'Dou, Gatti or Mitchell gave him?”

No, there isn’t; but isn’t that an indictment on the quality of PBF’s opposition over the past three years?

Another brilliant move by the Dougster. Just give the man his PhD!
And here's another quote on his opposition:
Beyond Hatton (who isn’t ready to fight PBF this year) and Margarito (who was born ready), don’t you think that Joel Casamayor, Julio Diaz, Acelino Freitas, Junior Witter, Vivian Harris, Juan Lazcano, and even Lovemore Ndou ALSO have the physical ability (as well as the experience and skills) to give PBF a better fight than Bruseles, Ndou, Gatti or Mitchell?

And finally, the killer quote:
Real fans want to see good fights – period.

Ooohhhhh!

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Originally Posted by Gyrokai

Unknown, wow, they make you! :) And number two is still two high! haha :D

I say Pacquiao is number one, but Winky at number one, with his dominance and consistency has earned his respect, even if I'm not a big fan of Winky you can't deny him his status. Here's a quote from Doug Fischer, in case anyone wants the...

Cliff Notes from Gyrokai.

BUT I do think it's telling that the two best fighters Mayweather has fought since JL Castillo - Zab and Chop Chop - were both coming off losses.

Wow, nice quote from Dougie! Go get'em Dougie!
I used to not like this guy, Fischer, now I understand that he bases all his arguments on reason. He also admits when he's wrong. I don't agree with him all the time, I even met him after the Morales Pacquiao I fight, and told him, to his face, that
"I don't agree with you all the time." haha

Check this out:
You ask if “there is a dispute that Judah has the physical ability to give Mayweather a better fight than Bruseles, N'Dou, Gatti or Mitchell gave him?”

No, there isn’t; but isn’t that an indictment on the quality of PBF’s opposition over the past three years?

Another brilliant move by the Dougster. Just give the man his PhD!
And here's another quote on his opposition:
Beyond Hatton (who isn’t ready to fight PBF this year) and Margarito (who was born ready), don’t you think that Joel Casamayor, Julio Diaz, Acelino Freitas, Junior Witter, Vivian Harris, Juan Lazcano, and even Lovemore Ndou ALSO have the physical ability (as well as the experience and skills) to give PBF a better fight than Bruseles, Ndou, Gatti or Mitchell?

And finally, the killer quote:
Real fans want to see good fights – period.

Ooohhhhh!

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Agree with wanting to see good fights. Did I like seeing Floyd fight Mitchell or even Gatti? Hell no, and I don't even want to mention the other guys name. Pac stay at three for one simple fact, regardless of comp, Floyd has no losses. Pac has a draw and a loss, granted they were against top guys, in his last few fights." What have you done for me lately ",always plays a key role in the p4p rankings. So does career though. If it didn't, why is Barrera still so high? I'm more upset about Floyd's opponents than anyone, but besides Wright and Pac, noone else has done anything to move ahead of Floyd. Zab is a more credible opponent than Soliman or Larious. It may not be the fight we all want to see, but I'll take it.{its alot better than the last few}. Then I'll accept Oscar or Margarito. Then hopefully the other one. How about you? Will that change your mind? Let me rephrase the Gatti fight. He was on a hot streak, and any fighter{Margarito,Hatton,Tszyu,Cotto} would take a fight against him. So it's unfair to just judge one guy for that. Even if Floyd beats Zab, he still doesn't go to #1. If Wright beats Taylor, he's 1 for sure. If he loses close, he doesn't drop that far{Taylor just goes up}. If Pac beats Larious then either Barrera or Morrales, he's at least 2, and if Wright loses, he's probably #1.

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

Agree with wanting to see good fights. Did I like seeing Floyd fight Mitchell or even Gatti? Hell no, and I don't even want to mention the other guys name.

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I like that, coming from a Mayweather fan. Especially from a Mayweather fan. It’s something they should be saying, because they of all people should realize the potential for Mayweather to make awesome matchups.

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

Pac stay at three for one simple fact, regardless of comp, Floyd has no losses. Pac has a draw and a loss, granted they were against top guys, in his last few fights." What have you done for me lately ",always plays a key role in the p4p rankings. So does career though. If it didn't, why is Barrera still so high?

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Although I disagree with you on that, I can see your reasoning. I'm not too harsh on a loss, if that loss comes from a Hall of Famer, Erik Morales, in a close and classic battle. Morales... *sighs in past memories of my favorite fighter. At the time I bought my first of three tickets to see him in Vegas, I felt like I was the only one who loved "El Terrible!" His style is unwritable. I knew he'd beat Pacqiuao. Morales is the real deal and history will remember him, the only Mexican Assasin who gave Pac three chances to chop his head off. Many criticize Morales for his "go to war" style, his speed has always been underrated, I always new this, but it was his "war" style that took him to the top and brought him down to the canvas. But he went down swinging and no one can take that away from him. And Juan Manuel Marquez was lucky the judges scored that many rounds in his favor. Some of those rounds went to Pac. People only remember the courage of Marquez after the first, but I remember the effective aggression of Pac AFTER the first round, enough to win a decision. I'm glad I'm not the only one who see's this, Mike Katz, respected writer has made me feel sane, when all I hear is this draw bullshit. Also, Marquez never gave Pac the chance to erase that draw in a rematch.

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

I'm more upset about Floyd's opponents than anyone, but besides Wright and Pac, noone else has done anything to move ahead of Floyd. Zab is a more credible opponent than Soliman or Larious. It may not be the fight we all want to see, but I'll take it.{its alot better than the last few}.

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Well Pac is due his "tune-up" fight, after his crazy challenges he's been making left and right. If Mayweather had one good challenge at least once a year, many respectful people couldn't complain.
I believe many fighters in the sport are taking on real challenges, while Floyd can make his best business decisions. He can earn all his money, but he won't get me to say he's number one. Mayweather, who openly challenges Sugar Ray Leonard in greatness, then has a three year vacation while Leonard, at the same age, fought all his memorable fights already, aside from Hagler.

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

Then I'll accept Oscar or Margarito. Then hopefully the other one. How about you? Will that change your mind?

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If Mayweather fights Hatton or Margarito, then that is only good for boxing. Yes Oscar de la Hoya is long in the tooth already, but that fight will be huge, even if Oscar can’t take it to another level any more. We'll see how Oscar can deal with Mayorga. I will never bet for Oscar anymore. I don't think Oscar is that good anymore, ok? haha Bring out Yory Boy Campas, just as he did three years ago, and I may just bet for Oscar. But who'll bet against me?

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

Let me rephrase the Gatti fight. He was on a hot streak, and any fighter{Margarito,Hatton,Tszyu,Cotto} would take a fight against him. So it's unfair to just judge one guy for that.

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Well, Gatti’s Gatti and beating Dorin, Ward, Branco, old Leija is a hot streak for him. HBO was jumping for joy that Gatti beat Leija (37 year old? With ring age.). I think all those fighters you mentioned {Margarito,Hatton,Tszyu,Cotto} would have murdered Gatti, but with Cotto he has a punchers chance.

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

Even if Floyd beats Zab, he still doesn't go to #1. If Wright beats Taylor, he's 1 for sure. If he loses close, he doesn't drop that far{Taylor just goes up}. If Pac beats Larious then either Barrera or Morrales, he's at least 2, and if Wright loses, he's probably #1.

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Poor Pac, heh. He’s gonna kill himself just to make number one, while Wright takes on unimpressive Taylor. I think Pac has high expectations coming from him, even higher than Floyd, but that’s my opinion. At least he'll get rich in the process.
:coolclick: for the discussion.

I think he's only there because he is undefeated. Looking at his last list of opponents Barerra should be number 1 p4p. But PBF got it because of who he fought near the beginning of his career but nothing recent, why do you think Hopkins was always over him until he lost. PBF never moved up, he only moved up because the people above him lost, not because he earned it during their reign. He wouldn't be p4p number 1 if RJ and BH hadn't lost.

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

I think he's only there because he is undefeated. Looking at his last list of opponents Barerra should be number 1 p4p. But PBF got it because of who he fought near the beginning of his career but nothing recent, why do you think Hopkins was always over him until he lost. PBF never moved up, he only moved up because the people above him lost, not because he earned it during their reign. He wouldn't be p4p number 1 if RJ and BH hadn't lost.

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Never liked Barrera's Fana ppv fights either. heh I just think that how Floyd is coasting on things he did three years ago is bad. Bad because it encourages every other fighter to do the same.

Well, maybe I'm a sadistic bastard! haha And just want every badass boxer to fight each and hurt each other a la Castillo Corrales. ;D

Thats what I am saying. Barerra may have had one Fana in there, but between those he had a Morales, Ayala and Peden and Hamed and then he fought Tapia and Morales so he rarely if ever has taken a break, he never went through a span where he fought people who couldn't carry his jock that he obviously beat. THe Ndou's Bruseles Gatti and Mitchell fights were good showcases to show how good Mayweather is, but none were the class to actually test him like Barerra's opponents have. Barerra hasn't taken a break and neither has Winky Wright, so Floyd as you say, coasting on stuff he did 3 or 4 years ago he doesn't deserve to be p4p number 1.

No way has Floyd earned the number 1 spot!! he simply hasn't fought the best in his respective divisions since 2002!! As far as I'm concerned Hatton has more claim than PBF, at least he beat the lineal champ and unified 2 belts!! before moving up.

Kostya destroyed Sharmba in 3 rounds!! I'm sure Hatton would too. Floyd didn't.

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

Thats what I am saying. Barerra may have had one Fana in there, but between those he had a Morales, Ayala and Peden and Hamed and then he fought Tapia and Morales so he rarely if ever has taken a break, he never went through a span where he fought people who couldn't carry his jock that he obviously beat. THe Ndou's Bruseles Gatti and Mitchell fights were good showcases to show how good Mayweather is, but none were the class to actually test him like Barerra's opponents have. Barerra hasn't taken a break and neither has Winky Wright, so Floyd as you say, coasting on stuff he did 3 or 4 years ago he doesn't deserve to be p4p number 1.

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When it comes to Barrera, I'm a biased b*stard when it comes to him I'll admit. I'm an Erik Morales fan. 8) I like Floyd Mayweather over Barrera, ha. I used to say, Erik has never been schooled as Barrera has been, until Morales met with Raheem "The Dream."

Barrera Pacquiao II would be awesome. Too bad Morales wants a third fight.

Morales is a fighter, not a business man. But he should outbox Manny if he doesn't stand and slug.

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Originally Posted by Gyrokai

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

Thats what I am saying. Barerra may have had one Fana in there, but between those he had a Morales, Ayala and Peden and Hamed and then he fought Tapia and Morales so he rarely if ever has taken a break, he never went through a span where he fought people who couldn't carry his jock that he obviously beat. THe Ndou's Bruseles Gatti and Mitchell fights were good showcases to show how good Mayweather is, but none were the class to actually test him like Barerra's opponents have. Barerra hasn't taken a break and neither has Winky Wright, so Floyd as you say, coasting on stuff he did 3 or 4 years ago he doesn't deserve to be p4p number 1.

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When it comes to Barrera, I'm a biased b*stard when it comes to him I'll admit. I'm an Erik Morales fan. 8) I like Floyd Mayweather over Barrera, ha. I used to say, Erik has never been schooled as Barrera has been, until Morales met with Raheem "The Dream."

Barrera Pacquiao II would be awesome. Too bad Morales wants a third fight.

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No point in having Pac v Barrera 2. Pac cleaned his clock,why would the outcome be any different?

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

Morales is a fighter, not a business man. But he should outbox Manny if he doesn't stand and slug.

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He should, but he won't, heh. Even if he does box, this "new" Pacquiao has improved.
cc, you deserve it, for replying and having anime pics.

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Originally Posted by Hairdoo

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Originally Posted by Gyrokai

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Originally Posted by P.G.H Angel Eyes

Thats what I am saying. Barerra may have had one Fana in there, but between those he had a Morales, Ayala and Peden and Hamed and then he fought Tapia and Morales so he rarely if ever has taken a break, he never went through a span where he fought people who couldn't carry his jock that he obviously beat. THe Ndou's Bruseles Gatti and Mitchell fights were good showcases to show how good Mayweather is, but none were the class to actually test him like Barerra's opponents have. Barerra hasn't taken a break and neither has Winky Wright, so Floyd as you say, coasting on stuff he did 3 or 4 years ago he doesn't deserve to be p4p number 1.

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When it comes to Barrera, I'm a biased b*stard when it comes to him I'll admit. I'm an Erik Morales fan. 8) I like Floyd Mayweather over Barrera, ha. I used to say, Erik has never been schooled as Barrera has been, until Morales met with Raheem "The Dream."

Barrera Pacquiao II would be awesome. Too bad Morales wants a third fight.

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No point in having Pac v Barrera 2. Pac cleaned his clock,why would the outcome be any different?

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Well, yeah, but I think Barrera wasn't at his best. I finally realise that your mindset is very important. Yeah, I'm a retard. hah
A focused fighter is a better fighter, Pac even looked better in the Morales rematch, because he didn't have his promoter problems. And Barrera, at the time he fought Pac, had his "metal head" records exposed, which threatened his stay in the boxing world.

CC for everyone who posted here especially unknowndonor. I RARELY hear a big Floyd fan admit he should not be number 1. I don't agree with the notion that being unbeaten means P4P number 1 status! Jermain Taylor? Also, Enrique,that was brilliantly put, Fischer is totally bias free and based on logic alone!
I want Morales to wear 8 oz gloves when he fights Pac,if he can shake him on quite a few occasions with the pillows, he can hurt him more with 80z. He needs to block Pac's left more,box and trade selectively and GO TO THE BODY! That was the turning point in the 2nd fight,Pac just broke him! If Pac wins this,his tune up(by the way, I think Pac's tune up is more dangerous than any of Floyd's fight in the last 3 years!ie Larios), I don't think there can be an argument unless Winky beats JT! Pac will most likely fight MAB next year,another guy who is awesome but has not had a challenge for waaaay too long!

And before anyone starts saying anything, I am a huge fan of Floyd's talents but talent alone does not make you P4P number1,fans want to see you challenge your self ala Pacman,Winky etc. Floyd could probably beat most guys out there so that's what makes it even more dissappointing that he fights guys like Mitchell,Brusseles and tries to pass it off as a legitimate challenge. I think fans are starting to wake up, I visit quite a few sites and there is at least 1 thread about him not being P4P number 1!

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Originally Posted by The Game

And before anyone starts saying anything, I am a huge fan of Floyd's talents but talent alone does not make you P4P number1,fans want to see you challenge your self ala Pacman,Winky etc. Floyd could probably beat most guys out there so that's what makes it even more dissappointing that he fights guys like Mitchell,Brusseles and tries to pass it off as a legitimate challenge. I think fans are starting to wake up, I visit quite a few sites and there is at least 1 thread about him not being P4P number 1!

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Back at yah,

It will encourage him to take on a real challenge, or discourage him into one. Mayweather can look after himself, take care of his health, and in the meantime make millions. Good for him.

But he can't get away with saying he's the best around this sport, without fighting the best or without hearing a little criticism from part of the media and fight fans.

How can I say Floyd is number one and live with a clean conscience with Pacquiao, Morales, Winky, Castillo, Corrales, Hatton constantly taking risks with their health and records? 8)

I totally agree with what has been said. Floyd, IMO, has the RJJ effect going. Roy was undefeated{Discredit the DQ}, but was fighting mandatories. Granted, some of them were good fighters, they weren't up to par with Roy's talent. You can't blame him completely for that. Just because he is the best, doesn't mean he can just fight who the "public" wants. At one time, Mosely was 1 p4p, and Tito was two, Roy was third. If those two fighters hadn't been undefeated at the time, would they still be ranked higher than Roy? Mosely had beat Oscar, but skipped 140 almost altogether. Why was he #1. Tito had beaten everyone convincingly{with the exception of Oscar}. So why was Mosely #1 on everyone's list, when after Oscar, he was fighting nobodys? Times have changed, but at that time, Tito {pre-Hopkins}, should have been #1,IMO. Floyd is by far the best boxer right now, and will recieve extra criticism, and should rise to the occasion. No doubt. But, Barrera doesn't deserve to be ahead of him, and those who say Hatton deserves to be ahead of him, are basing that on one fight. Like it or not, beating Tszyu, and who, oh, Maussa. Is nopt the same as beating Corrales,Castilllo 2 times,N'dou, skip the next guy, Gatti {on a hot streak}, and Mitchell. Fighters with great talent carry more responsibility than fighters who are average, but go to war. Morrales is one of my all-time favs, but after Barrera 1, everyone said he was a chump, and didn't perform up to par. He still won. I've been watching Floyd since his amatuers, and have watched him blossum. If I wasn't a true fan, I would almost like to see him lose to Zab, just to come back with a vengeance, and wipe out the comp. But thats what I like most about him that everyone else hates. He should be the "Sugar Ray Leonard" of today, but he's not. He's a bad guy, that everyone wants to lose. Like Tyson. Anyway, the way I look at it is this, Floyd is the NY Yankees of boxing. He has the most talent, and the best conditioning. He is the evil empire, that has the easy way. You either love him or hate him, and if you love him, you are usually called a band-wagoner. Even if he loses, Floyd has great talent, determination, work ethic, and heart. And noone can take that away from him. One last thing, He didn't duck Hatton. If you have to blame someone, blame Bob Arum for having another undefeated fighter in the same weight class, pushing the better fighter up, because he is that talented.

Oh yea, :coolclick: to The Game. I'm just a fan of the sport. Everyone has favorites, but I try not to let that blind me.


And to Gyrokai, :coolclick: Good discussion agreed.

"I’ll say this about you, Steve, I admire your willingness to go on record with your prediction BEFORE the fight takes place."


And when should you predict a fight ? AFTER its happened ? ::**

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

At one time, Mosely was 1 p4p, and Tito was two, Roy was third. If those two fighters hadn't been undefeated at the time, would they still be ranked higher than Roy? Mosely had beat Oscar, but skipped 140 almost altogether. Why was he #1. Tito had beaten everyone convincingly{with the exception of Oscar}. So why was Mosely #1 on everyone's list, when after Oscar, he was fighting nobodys? Times have changed, but at that time, Tito {pre-Hopkins}, should have been #1,IMO.

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Thanks for making me think about Oscar!! You could say he won both the Tito fight and the 2nd Mosely fight when Shane was the popular pick as p4p1! He moves up another weight wins a world title and is competitive against Hopkins. Mosely won his 1st title at Lightweight, Dela Hoya won his at Super Featherweight, Floyd also won his Super Featherweight, could any of you see Floyd doing a better job against the Sturm and Hopkins that Oscar fought? By rights Oscar has more claim to number 1 than Floyd.

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Originally Posted by Unknowndonor

beating Tszyu, and who, oh, Maussa. Is nopt the same as beating Corrales,Castilllo 2 times,N'dou, skip the next guy, Gatti {on a hot streak}, and Mitchell.

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I dont blame Floyd for not fighting Hatton at all but I'm not going to give him any more credit or a higher position p4p than he earnt back in 2002. The beating Hatton put on the version of Kostya that destroyed Sharmba is p4p worthy! Kostya was top 5 p4p. Where on your p4p list did you have Corrales, Castillo, N'dou and Gatti when Floyd fought them?