What do you feel was the biggest HW title fight of them all?
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What do you feel was the biggest HW title fight of them all?
Such a tricky question to answer. I put Ali v Foreman simply because it completed Ali's Legacy in my book. Underdog, so called finished, going in with a young beast that had just Eaten Frazier up to become champion in a manner so brutal it had never been seen before in a World HW title fight. People were even worried for Ali pre-fight that he might get seriously hurt.
and When I say Completed his legacy, the Spinks rematch to be the first 3 time World HW Champ meant nothing to me . Simply because if he hadn't lost his title to a 7 fight novice (albeit a great novice) , he wouldn't have had to regain it!
I think the same as primo, and that frankly it’s not even close. Can you imagine the numbers that fight would have done if it somehow could have happened last year? Mayweather vs pacquiao could have been on the undercard ffs.
The biggest ever fight was Ali v Frazier. Two undefeated heavyweight championship facing each other and at MSG. The world was watching. Stars were out and Sinatra was taking photographs. It was an event. It was simply called The Fight.
Burns v Johnson
Louis v Schmelling II and it's not even close.
Ali-Frazier wouldn't have been bigger today, they would never even be champ, and Ali's shtick would be seen as boring, cliche rubbish.
Ali today is basically Kingpin Johnson with the looks and sex appeal of David Haye.
Frazier is Del Boy Chisora with the appeal of Bryant Jennings.
James Toney versus Sam Peter 1.
Tyson V Spinks , two unbeaten fighters .
Neither dodged the draft either.
Both liked a pint, eh? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
By your definition you are choosing a light heavyweight blown away in 91 seconds by a rapist as the biggest heavyweight title fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Tyson-Spinks is the most iconic for me too. I can still remember as boy all the "Spinks is gonna school him" stuff, and "Ali would have done this, Ali would have done that"... 90 seconds later, Tyson was the most brutal punching machine ever seen.
(That's how I remember those glorious 80s, anyway)
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Originally Posted by Master
^^^ This.
Doesn't matter how each would fare today. Doesn't matter whether you liked either of them or not. Doesn't matter what their records were. The question was plain and simple. Which was the biggest HW title fight ever. It's Ali-Frazier and it's not even close. @Master already spelled out the reasons quite nicely.
Your has a different meaning to the
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Originally Posted by Fenster
Errrr... ok.... whatever.
On the other hand, I do like your avatar of Gary Oldman, my favorite bad guy in movies.
Johnson v Jeffries was even bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
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Originally Posted by MasterBy your definition you are choosing a light heavyweight blown away in 91 seconds by a rapist as the biggest heavyweight title fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al
Spinks had beaten the long reigning champ in Holmes.
In 1988 Tyson hadn't committed rape at that point , although some people would argue that after the 91 seconds ,he had.
You're right, the Jeffries fight was a bigger financial 'event', but I would argue that the Burns fight was the most 'meaningful' as it was the first time that a non white man became the world heavyweight champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJohnson v Jeffries was even bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
I think that "event" caused massive deaths of black people and guaranteed that no Black man would fight for the title for 37 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by XYou're right, the Jeffries fight was a bigger financial 'event', but I would argue that the Burns fight was the most 'meaningful' as it was the first time that a non white man became the world heavyweight champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterJohnson v Jeffries was even bigger.Quote:
Originally Posted by X
Still all in all Ali and Frazier are legacy and historically known world wide. Ali surpassed the sport, defined an era and stood on principle. The shtick was a side piece that sat atop actual substance. Compared to the guys running around now talker louder on twitter than the ring and acting like cartoon buffoons Ali would be the straight guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Well that's the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliStill all in all Ali and Frazier are legacy and historically known world wide. Ali surpassed the sport, defined an era and stood on principle. The shtick was a side piece that sat atop actual substance. Compared to the guys running around now talker louder on twitter than the ring and acting like cartoon buffoons Ali would be the straight guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
What was fresh then is stale now. What was big then is small now (in part thanks to Ali). The best fighters and biggest fights of that era wouldn't necessarily eclipse anything in this, like the biggest fights of this era would have fit in back then.
(now that time I was being serious)
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Originally Posted by SpicoliStill all in all Ali and Frazier are legacy and historically known world wide. Ali surpassed the sport, defined an era and stood on principle. The shtick was a side piece that sat atop actual substance. Compared to the guys running around now talker louder on twitter than the ring and acting like cartoon buffoons Ali would be the straight guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Yeah I think the point (and the question) is being missed by some. We're talking historical context. It makes zero sense to judge how big Ali-Frazier was then by placing them in the now. Ali-Frazier did for boxing what precious few other events have done for their sport's popularity.
No one thinks Holyfield/Bowe was a BIG fight? ;D
It ended up a classic great fight but no one thought it was big as the others mentioned on the list.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
As with everything else it's just apples and oranges. Different world now and there was much more focus, could say quantity over quality as today technology makes us instant and heated or manufactured rivalries are a dime a dozen. Ali gave up peak years to defy a war. Guys today give up years because they turn up dirty piss tests or protect trinkets avoiding relevant threats. Rings hollow.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by SpicoliStill all in all Ali and Frazier are legacy and historically known world wide. Ali surpassed the sport, defined an era and stood on principle. The shtick was a side piece that sat atop actual substance. Compared to the guys running around now talker louder on twitter than the ring and acting like cartoon buffoons Ali would be the straight guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Yeah I think the point (and the question) is being missed by some. We're talking historical context. It makes zero sense to judge how big Ali-Frazier was then by placing them in the now. Ali-Frazier did for boxing what precious few other events have done for their sport's popularity.
Think it can also say something about American heavies, we'll never get that back or be 'top dog' if we're honest. Again different world and expanded sport-exposure. I mean what...last world traveling semi charismatic U.S heavyweight was Bowe? Right down to doing Ali impressions during his fights or in interviews ffs. But at least he and camp had an understanding of being bigger or trying to cement a spot. Guy went to war zones, met the Pope, donated hundreds of thousands to humanitarian efforts in Africa etc. Of course some say that contributed to downfall away from ring or training. Not to mention ducking Lewis but that's another thing :-X.
Ali vs Frazier #1 for me.
Ali vs Foreman next, for all the reasons mentioned here previously.
Tyson vs Spinks was more meaningful but Tyson vs Holyfield was huge.
Holyfield vs Bowe was excellent but not close to the others listed.
Sullivan v Corbett was pretty significant. The very first gloved heavyweight championship bout. Without that fight, the sport wouldn't exist as we know it.
looking at some posts on here, anyone might think that the sport didn't start until 1970 :confused:
Reading some of your posts in this thread I would be surprised you seen a boxing match in colour. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by X