Sugar Ray Leonard and Roy Jones Jr were some of the most naturally talented fighters to ever lace up a pair of gloves. Both were noted for their speed, and both had success at multiple weights. But, who was the better fighter pound for pound?
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Sugar Ray Leonard and Roy Jones Jr were some of the most naturally talented fighters to ever lace up a pair of gloves. Both were noted for their speed, and both had success at multiple weights. But, who was the better fighter pound for pound?
Really hard one because Ray Leonard was a true great at welterweight he had no right to beat another great in Tommy Hearns but did it with skill, talent, courage, heart, will and chin.
Roy was super fast with a punch but not tested to the level Leonard was so had it easier.
I would say p4p Leonard. Ray would time Roy and knock him out.
I tend to look at this one a little differently. If we are talking accomplishments and historical impact, then I say Ray is an easy winner. If we are talking a mythical match up where size is made equal and all other attributes adapt accordingly, I feel this is a 50/50 fight.
Ray had better fundamentals and was VERY close to Roy in terms of athletic ability, but I feel Roy's slight edge in athleticism combined with his unorthodox/creative style would have presented significant problems to Leonard. I think Ray was very good at adjusting during fights and he was able to vary his weapons/strategy once he figured out the other guy's weaknesses. Roy was so damn unorthodox and unpredictable in his prime that I see Ray requiring numerous rounds to start to feel comfortable and spot the openings. This would be a fantastic fight.
Ray adjusted to all types of styles particularly greats such as Hearns, Duran and Benitez. As unorthodox as Roy was Leonard would not have a problem with him. Ray would time Roy and beat him silly. P4P Roy brings athleticism and punch power which is not enough to beat Ray.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
RJJ was UNBEATABLE up to the Ruiz fight. No one in the world could match him. NO ONE!Quote:
Originally Posted by VG_Addict
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
As good as this analysis is, I side with @Master on this one. For me SRL is top 2 or 3 all-time P4P, if not the best ever. His list of opponents, of different styles, sizes, and power... can stand up to anyone else's list. Roy was more purely athletic, but could get a bit sloppy relying on that athleticism. I agree though... it would be a fantastic fight.
Mythical match up p4p at their peak, I would favour SRL. But at his peak, RJJ was an amazing phenomenal fighter.
I don't disagree with you guys on Ray proving his greatness and beating ridiculous competition, and I give him a great chance to beat Roy. I just think guys like Roy and Hamed were freakish enough to cause problems for anyone who ever fought. Ray had the mental toughness to will himself through hard times to victory, but Roy was very good at capitalizing on openings. Combined with Roy's punch (I feel he had more power), I see Ray struggling a bit. I could be wrong though, Ray was the definition of ATG and a special fighter.
Roy was just below.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Now RJJ was a great , but Hamed is nowhere near that level. And as for causing problems for anyone ever, he didn't cause Barrera many problems, and as much as I love Barrera, he isn't at the level of the guys we're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
You make a very valid point on Hamed, but my question would be if you feel that the version of Hamed that MAB fought was the best, or if he had started to slip and get lazy. I tend. to view Naz as losing his edge around the Kelley fight, so that is why I see him giving great comp tough fights. I would also classify MAB as an ATG, although not at the level of Ray.Quote:
Originally Posted by Primo CarneraNow RJJ was a great , but Hamed is nowhere near that level. And as for causing problems for anyone ever, he didn't cause Barrera many problems, and as much as I love Barrera, he isn't at the level of the guys we're talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Hamed started to slip when started fighting real competition, not because he became lazy.
Naz unified the division with ease and when he was with Ingle he was the bomb. That version would have given MAB a much harder time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
Roy is the most talented fighter I have ever seen and it’s really not close.
But Ray had it all. It’s possible Roy had it all in his prime and we just didn’t get to see it but....we didn’t get to see it. So we can’t assume he had the heart of SRL, the dog that SRL had in him, the ability to keep his wits when things aren’t going your way. We’ve seen a million talented fighters come apart when things start to go wrong.
We can only credit fighters for what we know they are capable of. SRL showed ya more. But we can always remember Roy as the most talented fighter we ever saw, that’s not such a bad thing to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruthless rocco
I disagree. Hamed was on borrowed time after the kelly fight. Foundation of his success was slipping away even then.
Roy was amazing fighter but his chin could be check and for Rays size at ww especially he had some real power. Not to mention Ray in his prime had one of the best chins i have ever seen man could take a hit. Hell Tommy damn near knocked his eye out and could not put him away in stead Leonard hunted him down and knocked him out. Also is this a 15 round fight or a 12 round fight because if it is 15 i am even more on Leonard taking the match then 12.
Thinking about this more and more, I feel that Roy had a distinct advantage in punching power and speed. Thinking of prime Leonard, I can’t recall him ever displaying the same type of scary power that Roy did while at 168 (and even at 175 vs Virgil Hill and Montell Griffin). Ray had some great knockouts (Hearns), but I seem to recall them being more from an accumulation of punches than one big punch.
I say all of that to say that while I still feel Roy causes some significant problems for Leonard, I have come around to thinking that Ray’s biggest advantage wouldn’t be his superior boxing skills, but his mentality and desire to be considered great. Much like his fight vs Tommy, I think Ray would need to dig deep and come from behind to score the stoppage or at least pull out the win. Where I initially viewed this as a 50/50 fight, I now tend to think Ray would win the majority of fights.
Leonard in his career was able to deal with some very difficult styles of boxing. Benitez a defensive wizard who was already a champ at 140 and 147 and unbeaten was turn apart by Leonard then you have Tommy Hearns who at 147 is a fucking nightmare match probably one of the worst in history of the sport. I mean is Roy's power going to bother Leonard if Hearns could not. Also Hearns was damn near impossible to straight out box in the ring. If Leonard taps Roys chin how is he going to react to it we know he can be hurt and if this is pound for pound Ray has more then enough power to rock Roy and i am not sure Roy could bother Ray with his power. Bigger question to this fight is how many rounds would you make it as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Something to consider is how slanted our views are as well.
We remember Roy for being chinny only because he fought on. If you look at when Roy was KOed it was 2004, 15 years into his pro career at 35 years of age. Oddly for SRL 15 years into pro career at 35 years of age lines up pretty much perfectly with the Terry Norris fight. As I recall he was not competitive and knocked down(could be mistaken but that’s how I remember it). His only other fight was Camacho in which he was stopped. So, imagining an even playing field with SRL fighting on after Norris the evidence suggests we would remember him being hurt many times just like we remember Roy.
If we think of Ray pre Norris and indestructible we should remember Roy pre Tarver II and indestructible because neither before 35 years of age showed themselves to be soft. And both showed after 35 to be stoppable
Leonard. He fought better fighters....