The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
We all know of the first Golden era of Light Welter to Middleweight was the Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, Wilfred Benitez and Roberto Duran; and then add in the Pepinio Cuevas, Carlos Palomino's, Maurice Hope's and Bruce Curry's of this world.
Then we had a very underrated Silver era- With the Donald Curry, Marlon Starling, Mark Breland, Aaron Davis, Vincent Pettiway and Simon Brown; and then add in the Terry Norris's, Lloyd Honneyghan's, Maurice Blocker's and Johnny Bumphus's of this world.
But, we had another Golden era between the Light Welter to Middleweight era- The Oscar DeLaHoya, Shane Mosely, Vernon Forrest, Felix Trinidad era; and then add in the Fernando Vargas's, Ike Quartey's, Derrell Coley's and Pernell Whitaker's of this world.
I think I can rank the first era- Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns, Roberto Duran and then Wilfred Benitez and everyone else is where you put them afterwards.
The Silver era is kinda more difficult, because they were all so much alike and no one really stood out; but all great competitors. Outside of Terry Norris, who could we really separate from anyone else?
But the last Golden era, I would rank them like this- Felix Trinidad, Shane Mosely, Oscar DeLaHoya, Pernell Whitaker and then Vernon Forrest... and then Ike Quartey, Fernando Vargas and Derrell Coley in that order.
What do you think?
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
What of the: Floyd, JMM, Pacquiao, Gatti, Hatton, Cotto, Williams, Margarito, Martinez era?
Some very good fighters, some very good fights, and a lot of missed opportunities for big fights too sadly. Could have been even better had Corrales and Williams not had those motorcycle wrecks.
Right now we've got a glut of talent from 140-160, it's just the right fights need to get made and made quickly, that's the biggest problem with boxing at the moment for me as a fan is the big fights are not getting done at any division.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
So you say a peak Sweat Pea, say when he won the title against Buddy McGirt, beats peak Tito, and Oscar? I maybe agree with him beating Shane but not the other two.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ykdadamaja
We all know of the first Golden era of Light Welter to Middleweight was the Sugar Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, Wilfred Benitez and Roberto Duran; and then add in the Pepinio Cuevas, Carlos Palomino's, Maurice Hope's and Bruce Curry's of this world.
Then we had a very underrated Silver era- With the Donald Curry, Marlon Starling, Mark Breland, Aaron Davis, Vincent Pettiway and Simon Brown; and then add in the Terry Norris's, Lloyd Honneyghan's, Maurice Blocker's and Johnny Bumphus's of this world.
But, we had another Golden era between the Light Welter to Middleweight era- The Oscar DeLaHoya, Shane Mosely, Vernon Forrest, Felix Trinidad era; and then add in the Fernando Vargas's, Ike Quartey's, Derrell Coley's and Pernell Whitaker's of this world.
I think I can rank the first era- Ray Leonard, Marvin Hagler, Thomas Hearns, Roberto Duran and then Wilfred Benitez and everyone else is where you put them afterwards.
The Silver era is kinda more difficult, because they were all so much alike and no one really stood out; but all great competitors. Outside of Terry Norris, who could we really separate from anyone else?
But the last Golden era, I would rank them like this- Felix Trinidad, Shane Mosely, Oscar DeLaHoya, Pernell Whitaker and then Vernon Forrest... and then Ike Quartey, Fernando Vargas and Derrell Coley in that order.
What do you think?
How are we ranking them? P4P, who wins head to head, accomplishments...etc.? I rank all of those slightly different. I personally rank Pea, Oscar, and Shane ahead of Tito, and Quartey and Vargas ahead of Vernon.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
So you say a peak Sweat Pea, say when he won the title against Buddy McGirt, beats peak Tito, and Oscar? I maybe agree with him beating Shane but not the other two.
Old Pea might have beat Oscar. He had Oscar flailing. He outlanded Oscar by a good margin and had a KD.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
So you say a peak Sweat Pea, say when he won the title against Buddy McGirt, beats peak Tito, and Oscar? I maybe agree with him beating Shane but not the other two.
Old Pea might have beat Oscar. He had Oscar flailing. He outlanded Oscar by a good margin and had a KD.
I know it was close but thought Oscar deserved the decision. Tito's victory over Whitaker was more emphatic.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
So you say a peak Sweat Pea, say when he won the title against Buddy McGirt, beats peak Tito, and Oscar? I maybe agree with him beating Shane but not the other two.
Old Pea might have beat Oscar. He had Oscar flailing. He outlanded Oscar by a good margin and had a KD.
I know it was close but thought Oscar deserved the decision. Tito's victory over Whitaker was more emphatic.
But look when both happened. Do you think Serenchenko is better than Hatton?
I’m also curious why you think DLH won? He could have, but again, Sweet Pea landed significantly more and scored a KD. Did you like Oscars flurries that hit air like the crowd did?
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
So you say a peak Sweat Pea, say when he won the title against Buddy McGirt, beats peak Tito, and Oscar? I maybe agree with him beating Shane but not the other two.
Old Pea might have beat Oscar. He had Oscar flailing. He outlanded Oscar by a good margin and had a KD.
I know it was close but thought Oscar deserved the decision. Tito's victory over Whitaker was more emphatic.
But look when both happened. Do you think Serenchenko is better than Hatton?
I’m also curious why you think DLH won? He could have, but again, Sweet Pea landed significantly more and scored a KD. Did you like Oscars flurries that hit air like the crowd did?
Forgot about any knock down but remember Oscar was making the fight and gave him rounds for aggression.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Derrell Coley???. Have to admit I actually thought he was the goods for a minute. Then he got sucked into a war and knocked around by Rocky Balboa. I'd put McGirt, Jose Luis Lopez if he ever put the bong down, and JC Vasquez as players too. Thought Wilfredo Rivera nicked the first fight with Whitaker.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
So you say a peak Sweat Pea, say when he won the title against Buddy McGirt, beats peak Tito, and Oscar? I maybe agree with him beating Shane but not the other two.
Old Pea might have beat Oscar. He had Oscar flailing. He outlanded Oscar by a good margin and had a KD.
I know it was close but thought Oscar deserved the decision. Tito's victory over Whitaker was more emphatic.
But look when both happened.
Do you think Serenchenko is better than Hatton?
I’m also curious why you think DLH won? He could have, but again, Sweet Pea landed significantly more and scored a KD. Did you like Oscars flurries that hit air like the crowd did?
Yes
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
So you say a peak Sweat Pea, say when he won the title against Buddy McGirt, beats peak Tito, and Oscar? I maybe agree with him beating Shane but not the other two.
Old Pea might have beat Oscar. He had Oscar flailing. He outlanded Oscar by a good margin and had a KD.
I know it was close but thought Oscar deserved the decision. Tito's victory over Whitaker was more emphatic.
But look when both happened. Do you think Serenchenko is better than Hatton?
I’m also curious why you think DLH won? He could have, but again, Sweet Pea landed significantly more and scored a KD. Did you like Oscars flurries that hit air like the crowd did?
Forgot about any knock down but remember Oscar was making the fight and gave him rounds for aggression.
Common theme with people that say Oscar won. Would just like to point out aggression is not a scoring criteria.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
So you say a peak Sweat Pea, say when he won the title against Buddy McGirt, beats peak Tito, and Oscar? I maybe agree with him beating Shane but not the other two.
Old Pea might have beat Oscar. He had Oscar flailing. He outlanded Oscar by a good margin and had a KD.
I know it was close but thought Oscar deserved the decision. Tito's victory over Whitaker was more emphatic.
But look when both happened. Do you think Serenchenko is better than Hatton?
I’m also curious why you think DLH won? He could have, but again, Sweet Pea landed significantly more and scored a KD. Did you like Oscars flurries that hit air like the crowd did?
Forgot about any knock down but remember Oscar was making the fight and gave him rounds for aggression.
Common theme with people that say Oscar won. Would just like to point out aggression is not a scoring criteria.
I thought it was effective aggression.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
So you say a peak Sweat Pea, say when he won the title against Buddy McGirt, beats peak Tito, and Oscar? I maybe agree with him beating Shane but not the other two.
Old Pea might have beat Oscar. He had Oscar flailing. He outlanded Oscar by a good margin and had a KD.
I know it was close but thought Oscar deserved the decision. Tito's victory over Whitaker was more emphatic.
But look when both happened. Do you think Serenchenko is better than Hatton?
I’m also curious why you think DLH won? He could have, but again, Sweet Pea landed significantly more and scored a KD. Did you like Oscars flurries that hit air like the crowd did?
Forgot about any knock down but remember Oscar was making the fight and gave him rounds for aggression.
Common theme with people that say Oscar won. Would just like to point out aggression is not a scoring criteria.
I thought it was effective aggression.
That's where we diverge. FTR I thought the fight could have gone either way.
I just find it very interesting that you could give GGG the Jacobs fight even though Jacobs landed more power punches in 8 of 12 rounds. Presumably based on his superior jab. Couldn't have been effective aggression because Jacobs walked him the majority of the fight(when he was landing more power punches in 8 of 12)
Yet discount Pernell landing far far more jabs. Seems inconsistent.
Re: The SECOND Golden era of Lt-Welter to Middleweight!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I think it's a shame Sweet Pea got ODLH and Tito at the tail end of his career when he went 0-3-1 because people that don't go back and watch don't seem to know he was better than Oscar and Tito. Clearly better.
I always thought Sweat Pea was one of the greatest lightweight champions in history and in comparison was just not a natural welterweight.
That and he was a cokehead so his peak didn’t last but at his best he beats both. Mosley too
So you say a peak Sweat Pea, say when he won the title against Buddy McGirt, beats peak Tito, and Oscar? I maybe agree with him beating Shane but not the other two.
Old Pea might have beat Oscar. He had Oscar flailing. He outlanded Oscar by a good margin and had a KD.
I know it was close but thought Oscar deserved the decision. Tito's victory over Whitaker was more emphatic.
But look when both happened. Do you think Serenchenko is better than Hatton?
I’m also curious why you think DLH won? He could have, but again, Sweet Pea landed significantly more and scored a KD. Did you like Oscars flurries that hit air like the crowd did?
Forgot about any knock down but remember Oscar was making the fight and gave him rounds for aggression.
Common theme with people that say Oscar won. Would just like to point out aggression is not a scoring criteria.
I thought it was effective aggression.
That's where we diverge. FTR I thought the fight could have gone either way.
I just find it very interesting that you could give GGG the Jacobs fight even though Jacobs landed more power punches in 8 of 12 rounds. Presumably based on his superior jab. Couldn't have been effective aggression because Jacobs walked him the majority of the fight(when he was landing more power punches in 8 of 12)
Yet discount Pernell landing far far more jabs. Seems inconsistent.
GGG jab was the difference.
Sweat Pea v Oscar was years ago now.
