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He's 86, and couldn't possibly go on much longer, (right?)
-is he boxing's biggest problem?
-Don King is officially feckless, right?
-is one strong promotional company, (presumably Golden Boy), the way to UFC style success? (including national level athletic commissions, striped power from the "belt" organizations?)
I’d say Hearn has already passed him in the Arum behavior. Hard to see the dark side is.
There isn't a strong promotional company right now. Arum is on ESPN and his son in law, when he takes over, has a lot of different problems on his hands. Golden Boy have Alvarez and basically nobody else. Haymon has most of the top fighters signed up but who knows what's going to happen with Haymon. He's trying to UFCise boxing with PBC but it's not looking too good right now. There's been news that haymon and the UFC people are going to form a new company and also that UFC are going to set up on their own which could be just a negotiating ploy. I would guess boxing is going to get even more fragmented and messy over the next few years.
Just hope the door hits his arse on the way out. He's done well at paving the way to leave setting best guys at basically ppv apps per fight, I missed both Crawford and Manny. Just not paying a cost to see basically espn #4. The boxing world will trudge forward just fine as the Frankenstein sport it has always been. I can't see and don't believe a singular promoter in a Dana White fashion is realistic. Plenty of snafus in ufc with weight, violations and big cancellations also. For all his faults Don King ppv still feels like money well spent. He also just had a complete unknown and overmatched guy in top hbo slot. Golden Boy is basically a sausage making factory and big on favorites. Haymon recycles many but has a twisted way of keeping guys in camera rotation, in a fight or calling it you will see them etc. Individual fighters are also responsible for what happens and what doesn't.
Not wishing Arum to pass away or anything but I’d love to see him get his grubby hands out of boxing. At least we can have some hope that some different ideas can take root but it will be a long slow process. I did have a little more hope for PBC.
Arum and King, sleazy as they may have been, can't be denied their credit for keeping boxing in the limelight.
To promote, you almost need an outlandish personality and a willingness to take risks. Of the former boxers delving in promotion right now, I just don't see that same type of personality and/or mentality. Yeah, boxing will trudge on in its current state.... but IMO we need one or two forward-looking people who can grab the reins and try and increase boxing's popularity. The talent will always be there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
So, we don't want the continuity of the UFC? The basic premise of question is this: is it Bob Arum that's holding it up? (Everyone else DOES seem inherently feckless) Will that be enough of a vacuum for a cult-of-personality type + big money (Billions) to come in and fix this thing? Or is Haymon enough to stop it all? (He doesn't seem to have the magic to see any of this through; his success (sic) i think it's just because of the void of anything else happening...)
When will it be dead enough for real change?
Does anybody know what's happening with PBC? Thomas Hauser wrote a couple of great articles about Al Haymon a while ago but since then I haven't seen anything really good. I know the fund that put the money up for PBC are being sued by their investors for basically throwing hundreds of millions of dollars away but there's no news on whether that's going to affect Haymon and no news on how he's doing at the minute. He's got a lot of fighters and I'm sure a lot of them are not getting the number of fights he promised them. Something has to happen there eventually.
"...guess boxing is going to get even more fragmented and messy over the next few years. "Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Yeah, but is that enough to kill it completely?
To me, Haymon is greedy enough, has connections, but doesn't have what it takes on the business side, (his current lawsuit being the proof).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
A lot of guys want out because they aren't making money because they aren't fighting. My friend called that turn three years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Nobody brings along talent as well as Top Rank. Arum doesn't affect that too much but guys like Bruce Trampler and Brad Goodman do and they are not getting any younger themselves.
What is the current one?Quote:
Originally Posted by hfahrenheitTo me, Haymon is greedy enough, has connections, but doesn't have what it takes on the business side, (his current lawsuit being the proof).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Totally agree with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsoold
I think Top Rank has good foundations in place so that when Arum does pass the company will continue to run just fine.
At the moment they are trying new things with streaming and ESPN, all promoters need to be agile and able to adapt to the current markets.
Maybe Haymon collapses, Zuffa (the UFC people) move in and buy him out and go after total domination and in a while we have some kind of UFC setup. Hard to see happening though with the profusion of sanctioning bodies and established promoters. No matter how fragmented it does get boxing will chug on. It's booming in some parts of the world, just not America right now but it'll come back a certain amount at some point.Quote:
Originally Posted by hfahrenheit"...guess boxing is going to get even more fragmented and messy over the next few years. "Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Yeah, but is that enough to kill it completely?
Haymon has been successful in promoting music stars and is a wealthy guy but his boxing plan seems a little weird. UFC workd because they own the whole show and can tell fighters to fight each other whenever. Haymon legally is just these guys' advisor and is legally obligated to get them the best risk/reward purses he can get which workd directly against Haymon the PBC promoter (officially he isn't but in reality he is). PBC would be much better if Haymon could put whatever fights he wanted on on a schedule where there was a show every week and the most compelling fights in the divisions were constantly made like UFC but the various sanctioning bodies, the Muhammad Ali Act and various other things all work against that and PBC isn't a compelling spectacle with a schedule full of the best possible, it's a dog's breakfast that's blown through hundreds of millions of dollars and has done nothing to raise its profile.
I agree with you about Top Rank. Bruce Trampler has been an amazing matchmaker for Arum but somebody will come along and take his place. I reckon Arum's son-in-law will just keep on keeping on, Top Rank the company know what they're doing. Eventually they'll want to stream their fighters direct to the consumer I think. That seems to be the way things are going. If Haymon's firm does fall apart I think they'll go after a bunch of his fighters.Quote:
Originally Posted by greynotsooldA lot of guys want out because they aren't making money because they aren't fighting. My friend called that turn three years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirkland Laing
Nobody brings along talent as well as Top Rank. Arum doesn't affect that too much but guys like Bruce Trampler and Brad Goodman do and they are not getting any younger themselves.
I guess I just don't see Boxing needing to emulate some things ufc is doing and believe boxing big picture continuity is already there and has proven to be. Arum was never a in front of the camera showman and as pointed out Top Rank has roots beyond Arum. He's a corner stone and massive player to be sure but personally I do not think mainlining all fighters under one man-promoter has long term thinking in mind. You need competition and rivals in any market and boxing is filled with them. Stand them side by side and ufc is still wet behind the ears and undergoing it's growing pains currently. They got stuck on a 'brand' and got ahead of themselves with huge price ppvs and getting into multiple tv markets with a great though limited number of major roster players and you get a feel of quantity over quality. Unless you're a belt holder the pay is not so great. The ratings are down and with a few biggest 'stars' recently losing badly, joining 'wrastlin, getting popped for peds or causing major shows to cancel or scramble to air them it's time for them to get back to roots. Also as with any sport and entertainment the age demographics change, fans get older. The new espn deal is huge for them and hopefully White keeps his big loud face out of the way and lets some rising talent shine. Boxing for all it's black eyes and flaws is the cock roach of sports..that's a compliment ;D.. it will adapt and isn't going anywhereQuote:
Originally Posted by hfahrenheitQuote:
Originally Posted by Spicoli
So, we don't want the continuity of the UFC? The basic premise of question is this: is it Bob Arum that's holding it up? (Everyone else DOES seem inherently feckless) Will that be enough of a vacuum for a cult-of-personality type + big money (Billions) to come in and fix this thing? Or is Haymon enough to stop it all? (He doesn't seem to have the magic to see any of this through; his success (sic) i think it's just because of the void of anything else happening...)
When will it be dead enough for real change?
Competition is great, keeps everyone on the ball.
I think 1 overall governing body (not the sanctioning bodies) would be good to maintain rules, drug testing etc.
Seems we get hopes up every 5-10 yrs regarding serious reform and uniformed oversight. And we're not even talking stripping the car down to the frame but basic common sense measures you can usually find in any lucrative business. Over sight of the charlatans in the sanctioning bodies and a light put on the inner workings of rankings and officiating. Frankly holding a trinket today can speak as much to availability-rotation as it does being the top dog in a division. An across the board recognition and adherence to testing standards, suspensions and medical regulations. Rehydration clauses! Exceeding State to State in that if you are medically suspended or otherwise a guy doesn't just get to travel across the boarder as a loophole. One thing I remember joking about King was that when a guy signed with him they were basically in witness protection or could just go inactive but were tied into basically another version of indentured servant in exchange for making one or two 'big' fights. Mandate time frames that binds a fighter to promotion. A lot of boxings problems are stemmed in basic lack of enforcement and accountability, be it hard luck guys retiring with a fraction of earnings thanks to 101 individuals taking a cut and they are the ones enduring possible injuries or worse when they have that life after the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Yep it's crazy that we are now in 2018 and are no closer to having 1 main institution to watch over the everyday basics than we were a hundred years ago.
One that comes to mind is Povetkin fighting Duhapus after testing positive.
Needs to be 1 set of uniform rules/ regulations that all abide by.
Scandal-less
Every other sport, either team or individual sports, benefits from some kind of structure. The difference with professional boxing, like it or not, is that it all stems from blokes putting their money up to finance fights. You're looking at a bunch of businessmen generally from the shady/sketchy part of town who are behind the whole thing. The current setup with multiple sanctioning bodies etc has evolved to serve the people at the top of the tree, who are the promoters. These promoters don't own a franchise like the Cowboys or the Lakers that are a guaranteed year after year money earner. They're a bunch of guys financing individual guys who are all only a punch away from being a losing investment.
Bearing that in mind you can see how boxing is kinda resistant to any kind of unified organisation. The closest you could really hope for is somebody being able to sign up enough top boxers to be able to UFCise the whole thing but then you have the Muhammad Ali Act and various other things working against any kind of setup like that. See what happens to UFC if the fighters manage to get the Muhammad Ali Act and other regulation to apply to them too. The bottom line is it's always going to come down to individual blokes in suits putting their money up to promote sportsmen with a limited shelf life and anybody wanting to be a successful promoter isn't thinking about the long term future of boxing, they're thinking about making money, and there's no getting past that.
Top Rank and ESPN just signed a 7 year deal, for 54 shows per year.
Somewhat more honest---somewhat
It'll look like it does now.
How many of you Americans are buying the new boxing stream Danz? 32 shows per year plus the entire Super Series for $10 a month? I know most of you don't watch boxing outside the States but 16 shows are there and the Super Series has some American names you might recognise.
Anyone interested in paying to watch for regular boxing or prefer to buy one off fights like Floyd and McGregor?
I'm gonna start using DAZN... it's do-able living in the UK with a bit of clever VPN usage and you also need an email/billing ip address that's from one of the handful of countries they are currently available in. (Germany as an example)
It's a cracking deal for the price and like Netflix you can just use it month by month so your not tied down to any long contracts.
Some links with info on how to do it here 😎
https://www.expressvpn.com/vpn-servi...IaAuzIEALw_wcB
thevpn.guru/unblock-dazn-outside-germany-austria-switzerland-watch-uk-usa-vpn-dns-proxy