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The WBA has Anthony Joshua AND Manuel Char as their heavyweight champions (HOW CAN TWO CHAMPS BE WITHIN THE SAME SANCTION BODY??)....and now they just added Trevor Bryan as ANOTHER "World Boxing Association heavyweight champ"????
How much further do these sanction bodies have to go to destroy the legacy of the real championships of the world ??
This as taken from a quote from Iceman John Scully former title contender and now trainer.
Yes we have a thread about it already. :)
Cruiser is probably the worst example.
Yess...... I'm waiting for 5 WBA "world champs" in the same division. They need to think of another name for it.
The IBO is starting to gain a little traction. When do we as fans star the line?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
I think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Fighters like AJ and GGG would probably bristle at talk of more belts per division. But fringe guys who otherwise would never be "champ" would probably welcome 5 or more "world titles" per division. By god, how many more names can they make up? There's "regular", "interim", "super"....... it's gotta be a challenge to keep thinking of "title-sounding" names. Maybe they can come up with "super-duper", to mean the guy who's the champion of the champions.
In regards to AJ (and I'm not just singling him out, there have been others as well) when he is announced, the IBO is always noted. He should put his foot down and make a stand.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Fighters like AJ and GGG would probably bristle at talk of more belts per division. But fringe guys who otherwise would never be "champ" would probably welcome 5 or more "world titles" per division. By god, how many more names can they make up? There's "regular", "interim", "super"....... it's gotta be a challenge to keep thinking of "title-sounding" names. Maybe they can come up with "super-duper", to mean the guy who's the champion of the champions.
The problem is we don't have 1 respectable body that we can all get behind and support. The Ring is a perfect example, with past incidents and having De La Hoya as an owner. The TBRB came into it with good intentions, but stringent rules and no consistency has basically become a joke.
As I’ve said before, I honestly don’t really pay attention to belts. The only reason I’ll bring them up is as an excuse to unify because a good fight can be made. I couldn’t care less about the actual belts. That’s also why all of these title defenses and multi weight champions are all a joke. It was much harder to be Joe Louis with 25 defenses with one title than it is now where you can start defending your belt long before you are even the best in the division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Smart approach. Just ignored them.
I think most of us feel the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
But what's the solution? All 4 belts to unify? Before it was 3. Next it'll be 5, then 6. Then you get fans that sh-t on a guy like Crawford who unified all four but think his record is weak. No one else did it at that time. If it's so easy everyone would do it.
I like the idea of 1 vs 2 to fill a vacant championship. But then you get those that will argue who decides who 1 and 2 are.
I think if the overwhelming majority consider the fight to be between 1 and 2 it should qualify. With the sanctioning bodies creating new titles/ championships and stripping an active champions, unifying all belts (how many could be considered in say 10 years to unify) the belts/ bodies are diluting themselves and their relevance.
Bottom line with trinkets is quality over quantity for me. Who'd you beat for what you're wearing. I think some big 'stars' now have it in their mind that it's a game of collection. They can actually benefit from status in the hunt, do less in respected division than a long ranked top 5-10 guy who may have competed with far better competition. Name and a trinket in a lower division will let you walk right into higher division for a shot right off. Basically a door prize. Adrien Broner is considered making 'history' because he is a 4 division champ. Can anyone even name who he beat for just 1 or 2 of them???. And to think he's still thought of as a guy who hasn't won his big fights. It's a racket.
the wba might as well be picking bingo balls from a big spinner to decide the rankings now.
It’s like you said, fringe contenders want belts and are willing to pay the sanctioning fees to be considered a champion. I honestly don’t know what we as fans can do to change it other than not pay attention to belts and just call for the best fights. The fighters have to not want the belts eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think most of us feel the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
But what's the solution? All 4 belts to unify? Before it was 3. Next it'll be 5, then 6. Then you get fans that sh-t on a guy like Crawford who unified all four but think his record is weak. No one else did it at that time. If it's so easy everyone would do it.
I like the idea of 1 vs 2 to fill a vacant championship. But then you get those that will argue who decides who 1 and 2 are.
I think if the overwhelming majority consider the fight to be between 1 and 2 it should qualify. With the sanctioning bodies creating new titles/ championships and stripping an active champions, unifying all belts (how many could be considered in say 10 years to unify) the belts/ bodies are diluting themselves and their relevance.
Yea the best fighting the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherIt’s like you said, fringe contenders want belts and are willing to pay the sanctioning fees to be considered a champion. I honestly don’t know what we as fans can do to change it other than not pay attention to belts and just call for the best fights. The fighters have to not want the belts eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think most of us feel the same way.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
But what's the solution? All 4 belts to unify? Before it was 3. Next it'll be 5, then 6. Then you get fans that sh-t on a guy like Crawford who unified all four but think his record is weak. No one else did it at that time. If it's so easy everyone would do it.
I like the idea of 1 vs 2 to fill a vacant championship. But then you get those that will argue who decides who 1 and 2 are.
I think if the overwhelming majority consider the fight to be between 1 and 2 it should qualify. With the sanctioning bodies creating new titles/ championships and stripping an active champions, unifying all belts (how many could be considered in say 10 years to unify) the belts/ bodies are diluting themselves and their relevance.
I remember posting something in one of the WBSS threads, about it catching on and getting some sort of prestige.
The interim belt is the one that makes sense to me... Well compared to the fake wba belt, although I think technically charr actually holds the real wba belt even though it isn't :S... Pretty sure wladimir beat haye for the wba belt then they elevated wladimir to super champ and vacated the actual belt :S...... Just super weird to have two champions though in the same organization but the fans are just as bad sometimes, you see posts here referring to golovkins title defences that are counting the minor wba belt and so on...
Anyway I think an interim champion is good thing to have its clearly not the real belt and when used right it makes sense... Like when the actual champ is a serial dodger or badly injured and the number one contender has been waiting for a long time.. How that relates to trvor bryan and bj(maybe that helped) Flores is a mystery to me.... Bizzare
Wait, AJ who is carrying around Tyson's belts as if they are his, and GGG who keeps counting his WBA regular title wins as major title victories, these are the examples?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Fighters like AJ and GGG would probably bristle at talk of more belts per division. But fringe guys who otherwise would never be "champ" would probably welcome 5 or more "world titles" per division. By god, how many more names can they make up? There's "regular", "interim", "super"....... it's gotta be a challenge to keep thinking of "title-sounding" names. Maybe they can come up with "super-duper", to mean the guy who's the champion of the champions.
Yea the interim idea on paper is decent, as is emeritus but they never follow their own rules, so it becomes just another feeing grabbing scheme. There is no need to establish an interim or regular champion, when the current champ is active, Tank Davis' title for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by palmerq
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWait, AJ who is carrying around Tyson's belts as if they are his, and GGG who keeps counting his WBA regular title wins as major title victories, these are the examples?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Fighters like AJ and GGG would probably bristle at talk of more belts per division. But fringe guys who otherwise would never be "champ" would probably welcome 5 or more "world titles" per division. By god, how many more names can they make up? There's "regular", "interim", "super"....... it's gotta be a challenge to keep thinking of "title-sounding" names. Maybe they can come up with "super-duper", to mean the guy who's the champion of the champions.
Examples of guys who'd probably not welcome their division having 17 world title belts..... yes.
Regardless of your opinions about them, they are currently seen as dominant in their division. Especially Golovkin.
Do you really think AJ, or Golovkin would like to have one or two of 8 or 9 belts in their respective divisions?
I think not.
Didn't Tyson retire, as well as accepted a backdated suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWait, AJ who is carrying around Tyson's belts as if they are his, and GGG who keeps counting his WBA regular title wins as major title victories, these are the examples?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Fighters like AJ and GGG would probably bristle at talk of more belts per division. But fringe guys who otherwise would never be "champ" would probably welcome 5 or more "world titles" per division. By god, how many more names can they make up? There's "regular", "interim", "super"....... it's gotta be a challenge to keep thinking of "title-sounding" names. Maybe they can come up with "super-duper", to mean the guy who's the champion of the champions.
Do you still consider Canelo lineal champ in that case?
As I've always said all that matters is who you fight. We don't call the 4 horsemen the 4 horsemen because of belts.
I don't care what Tyson did after he won the belts from the true champion. He is champ until someone beats him. He's fighting, so his retirement wasn't real. Haye didn't beat a true champion, err, I mean AJ didn't beat a true champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDidn't Tyson retire, as well as accepted a backdated suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWait, AJ who is carrying around Tyson's belts as if they are his, and GGG who keeps counting his WBA regular title wins as major title victories, these are the examples?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Fighters like AJ and GGG would probably bristle at talk of more belts per division. But fringe guys who otherwise would never be "champ" would probably welcome 5 or more "world titles" per division. By god, how many more names can they make up? There's "regular", "interim", "super"....... it's gotta be a challenge to keep thinking of "title-sounding" names. Maybe they can come up with "super-duper", to mean the guy who's the champion of the champions.
Do you still consider Canelo lineal champ in that case?
Cotto didn't beat the best so he wasn't the best so Clanelo didn't beat the best either.
Falls under the same thing I say every time. All that matters is who you fight. Champions are fighters, not men with arbitrary belts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDidn't Tyson retire, as well as accepted a backdated suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWait, AJ who is carrying around Tyson's belts as if they are his, and GGG who keeps counting his WBA regular title wins as major title victories, these are the examples?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Fighters like AJ and GGG would probably bristle at talk of more belts per division. But fringe guys who otherwise would never be "champ" would probably welcome 5 or more "world titles" per division. By god, how many more names can they make up? There's "regular", "interim", "super"....... it's gotta be a challenge to keep thinking of "title-sounding" names. Maybe they can come up with "super-duper", to mean the guy who's the champion of the champions.
Do you still consider Canelo lineal champ in that case?
I didn't catch the "Tyson's belts" part when I responded. Otherwise I might have let out a muffled chuckle.
Interim can work but still also serves as a constant collection point for the alphabet soup group handing them out. Almost felt like Ortiz had a half dozen interim fights. Surely has to be timeframe. They pooched it with Flores v Bryan for interim. Literally tagged it for title..probably made it..on real short notice and zero visibility. Just felt shady as it gets.
I notice you didn't mention his suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI don't care what Tyson did after he won the belts from the true champion. He is champ until someone beats him. He's fighting, so his retirement wasn't real. Haye didn't beat a true champion, err, I mean AJ didn't beat a true champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDidn't Tyson retire, as well as accepted a backdated suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWait, AJ who is carrying around Tyson's belts as if they are his, and GGG who keeps counting his WBA regular title wins as major title victories, these are the examples?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Fighters like AJ and GGG would probably bristle at talk of more belts per division. But fringe guys who otherwise would never be "champ" would probably welcome 5 or more "world titles" per division. By god, how many more names can they make up? There's "regular", "interim", "super"....... it's gotta be a challenge to keep thinking of "title-sounding" names. Maybe they can come up with "super-duper", to mean the guy who's the champion of the champions.
Do you still consider Canelo lineal champ in that case?
Cotto didn't beat the best so he wasn't the best so Clanelo didn't beat the best either.
Falls under the same thing I say every time. All that matters is who you fight. Champions are fighters, not men with arbitrary belts.
You're saying Cotto didn't beat the best, lets ask everyone here, if they consider Tyson the best right now. If they don't doesn't that put a spanner in your argument.
What are you talking about? I said "I don't care..." His suspension falls under that. Sure, pathetic, but not pretending to sign a crap contract pathetic. My argument is fighting the best proves you are the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI notice you didn't mention his suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI don't care what Tyson did after he won the belts from the true champion. He is champ until someone beats him. He's fighting, so his retirement wasn't real. Haye didn't beat a true champion, err, I mean AJ didn't beat a true champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDidn't Tyson retire, as well as accepted a backdated suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWait, AJ who is carrying around Tyson's belts as if they are his, and GGG who keeps counting his WBA regular title wins as major title victories, these are the examples?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Fighters like AJ and GGG would probably bristle at talk of more belts per division. But fringe guys who otherwise would never be "champ" would probably welcome 5 or more "world titles" per division. By god, how many more names can they make up? There's "regular", "interim", "super"....... it's gotta be a challenge to keep thinking of "title-sounding" names. Maybe they can come up with "super-duper", to mean the guy who's the champion of the champions.
Do you still consider Canelo lineal champ in that case?
Cotto didn't beat the best so he wasn't the best so Clanelo didn't beat the best either.
Falls under the same thing I say every time. All that matters is who you fight. Champions are fighters, not men with arbitrary belts.
You're saying Cotto didn't beat the best, lets ask everyone here, if they consider Tyson the best right now. If they don't doesn't that put a spanner in your argument.
What does Tyson now have to do with that? Did I say Tyson is the best now? No, I said he is the real champion. Because he beat the best.
I don't even like Fury, I hope he gets KTFO tonight. But at least he has proven willing to fight the best.
By your theory you have to beat the best to become champ, Fury is not the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWhat are you talking about? I said "I don't care..." His suspension falls under that. Sure, pathetic, but not pretending to sign a crap contract pathetic. My argument is fighting the best proves you are the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI notice you didn't mention his suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonI don't care what Tyson did after he won the belts from the true champion. He is champ until someone beats him. He's fighting, so his retirement wasn't real. Haye didn't beat a true champion, err, I mean AJ didn't beat a true champion.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaDidn't Tyson retire, as well as accepted a backdated suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonWait, AJ who is carrying around Tyson's belts as if they are his, and GGG who keeps counting his WBA regular title wins as major title victories, these are the examples?Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI think it's up to the fighters as well, Eubank wanted to be a champion so his IBO title was real in his and his fans' eyes. I think 4 is more than enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Alpha
Good question bro. One we've asked here more than a few times. Some will answer "just stop buying tickets or PPVs", but I think a more realistic answer is needed. When will we get fed up? When there's 26 alphabet orgs and each one has 8 "world champions" in each weight division? I don't know. It's pretty ridiculous already.
Fighters like AJ and GGG would probably bristle at talk of more belts per division. But fringe guys who otherwise would never be "champ" would probably welcome 5 or more "world titles" per division. By god, how many more names can they make up? There's "regular", "interim", "super"....... it's gotta be a challenge to keep thinking of "title-sounding" names. Maybe they can come up with "super-duper", to mean the guy who's the champion of the champions.
Do you still consider Canelo lineal champ in that case?
Cotto didn't beat the best so he wasn't the best so Clanelo didn't beat the best either.
Falls under the same thing I say every time. All that matters is who you fight. Champions are fighters, not men with arbitrary belts.
You're saying Cotto didn't beat the best, lets ask everyone here, if they consider Tyson the best right now. If they don't doesn't that put a spanner in your argument.
What does Tyson now have to do with that? Did I say Tyson is the best now? No, I said he is the real champion. Because he beat the best.
I don't even like Fury, I hope he gets KTFO tonight. But at least he has proven willing to fight the best.
How did Wlad become the best? Most feel it was with the Povetkin win. That fight was October '13. Vital didn't officially retire until December '13. So did Wlad beat the best?
I don't really car either, just trying to understand your logic.
Hopkins definitely best the best, and the line followed on from there.
I'm not even going to get into the absurdity of not recognising the retirement, or the suspension.
I agree the best should fight the best but there are a few wholes in your logic.
The WBA is a bigger joke than any sanctioning body in sports. The WBO used to be a joke with there 10 win champions. But the WBA is just ridiculous.