Chayaphol Moonsri/Wanheng Menayothin -105 minimum weight Champ. 51st win. Nice try Floyd ;D
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/383177
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp...-51st-win.html
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Chayaphol Moonsri/Wanheng Menayothin -105 minimum weight Champ. 51st win. Nice try Floyd ;D
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/383177
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp...-51st-win.html
The ref was horrible in this fight.
http://youtu.be/Zs4Oa2DHgK0
Mods please delete if I can't post this here.
I know you’re not being serious, and I’ll admit to being uninformed about midget fighting, as most are, but have you heard of any of his opponents? Be honest. At a glance it looks like he’s never beaten a fighter who has in turn beaten a good fighter... fought guys with losing records or damn near it very recently....
He hasn't beaten any P4P type guys or other reigning champs, but he has fought a handful of solid guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Niyomtrong has a much better record in only 18 fights. These 2 need to get it on.
I love the way these Thai guys have non-title fights like the fossils used to, just goes to show modern fighters could easily amass 100 fight winning records if it was still the climate.
One of the favourite arguments historian nerds have is - the champions today couldn't compete with those of yesteryear because they don't fight enough, yet all these Thai guys are simply emulating the format used in the 20s-to-60s America.
I wouldn't say easily, but 60 to 80 fights should be attainable for these modern guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Fighting non title fights and exhibitions is something I think we need more off. Instead of a guy being sidelined with 1 or 2 fights a year, they could be doing these on free to air tv. Would keep them sharp and in the public eye.
Yeah I didn't mean they'd reach 100 wins literally, but all the old greats with a million fights have plenty of filler, you could easily add two dozen non-title fights to Floyd's record and it would still be outstanding (please don't think I rate Floyd and modern fighters superior to the old titmers as I don't, greats would flourish in any era, IMO).Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI wouldn't say easily, but 60 to 80 fights should be attainable for these modern guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Fighting non title fights and exhibitions is something I think we need more off. Instead of a guy being sidelined with 1 or 2 fights a year, they could be doing these on free to air tv. Would keep them sharp and in the public eye.
The champions today earn too much money per bout to ever want to fight more than a few times a year. The only reason it still happens in certain asain countries is because they're on peanuts.
Take Wang - how many P4P fighters have a day job? How many P4P fighters can afford to have non-title bouts? Yet he is getting criticised for fighting "bums" since the Estrada win. Most fans think everyone is on a million dollars a fight and actually enjoy getting smashed in the mouth for a living.
Julio Ceaser Chavez would fight the best and worst fighters in the world every few months as he was trying to get to that 100.
The guy Wangek fought previously (who Moonsri also stopped about 3 years ago) was nothing special.
Iran Diaz however (although not elite) has only lost twice to good fighters and holds wins over Tyson Marquez and Luis Conception in his last 4 fights. He has done more than some others to get a shot.
It shows up Floyd's "record" for what it really is for his fanboys, that it is a load of rubbish.
Condes was a former IBF championQuote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
Novoa was the reigning WBC champion (took the title from Zhong in China)
Fukuhara was a former WBO champion (only a few months removed from losing the belt)
Juarez was very highly regarded
So there's a few good wins there, but...only a few in 51
Petch Sor Citpattana has like 48 wins and is something like 25
I’ve always thought these fighters should fight much more even if against lesser competition. I wouldn’t have minded seeing Floyd fight an extra 15-20 times even against non top fighters. The more boxing the better. Also, there is always a chance of an upset.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaI wouldn't say easily, but 60 to 80 fights should be attainable for these modern guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Fighting non title fights and exhibitions is something I think we need more off. Instead of a guy being sidelined with 1 or 2 fights a year, they could be doing these on free to air tv. Would keep them sharp and in the public eye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
A guy making his professional debut for his 41st fight.
A 1-15 bum for his 50th fight.
A dude with a 0-1 record for his 66th fight.
Uhhhh............. yeah. ;) ;)
I don't have a problem with a guy having filler every few fights early on. Just don't expect them to be tv showcases. I think it's good for a guy to leave the stage every once in awhile and for promoters to stop passing blow outs off as proof of the next sensation. Every record has padding and 5-10-15 losses doesn't make you instant roadkill. I think also some fighters..especially lower weights..get dismissed because fans don't know their name. Wang is a good example of that, he obviously proved multiple kos over "Pro Debut" is a matter of a man just doing his work once he took the hill with Chocolatito twice and Estrada.
In fairness Thailand specifically makes it harder with fighters alternating their names every year ;D.
Seeing the various names used for the Thai in the boxing media i'm surprised I haven't seen a P4P list like this
1. Loma
2. Srisaket
3. Crawford
4. Sor Rungvisai
5. Wangek
chayaphon moonsri lost for the second time. panya pradabsri looks like the number one in the division. here's the fight for anyone who wants to watch. it was good
https://youtu.be/KIL4TDBOQfE
Should we do this with the Sugar Ray Robinson? He had 3 fights in a row against people making their debuts when he had 150+ fights. Those were not the only debuts on his record either, he also fought a few guys with 0 wins and many more with losing records. And he’s considered the greatest. I don’t think fighters should be judged for fighting bad fighters. But whether or not they fight good fighters. And both these guys mentioned didQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
A guy making his professional debut for his 41st fight.
A 1-15 bum for his 50th fight.
A dude with a 0-1 record for his 66th fight.
Uhhhh............. yeah. ;) ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonShould we do this with the Sugar Ray Robinson? He had 3 fights in a row against people making their debuts when he had 150+ fights. Those were not the only debuts on his record either, he also fought a few guys with 0 wins and many more with losing records. And he’s considered the greatest. I don’t think fighters should be judged for fighting bad fighters. But whether or not they fight good fighters. And both these guys mentioned didQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
A guy making his professional debut for his 41st fight.
A 1-15 bum for his 50th fight.
A dude with a 0-1 record for his 66th fight.
Uhhhh............. yeah. ;) ;)
I honestly don't care who it is. There's guys out there that have fought nothing but good opposition their whole careers and as a result they stumble every now and then. I find this fascination with preserving the "0" at all costs, even if it means fighting absolute bums well into your career... ludicrous. SRR fought so often and so much he probably ran out of good fighters at some stretches. His "0" win scalps can be forgiven. I remember when JCC was chugging toward 100-0, and he wanted nothing standing in his way. That I don't respect too much.
Give me the Lomachenkos and Inoues of the world, even if they have 2-3 losses on their records, rather than the carefully crafted undefeated records bloated with debut opponents on 40th and 50th fights. It's ridiculous.
most top fighters have a few bad opponents on their record. naoya's last opponent was far from deserving. maybe his last two. fighters should be judged on who & when they foughtQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonShould we do this with the Sugar Ray Robinson? He had 3 fights in a row against people making their debuts when he had 150+ fights. Those were not the only debuts on his record either, he also fought a few guys with 0 wins and many more with losing records. And he’s considered the greatest. I don’t think fighters should be judged for fighting bad fighters. But whether or not they fight good fighters. And both these guys mentioned didQuote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by Master
A guy making his professional debut for his 41st fight.
A 1-15 bum for his 50th fight.
A dude with a 0-1 record for his 66th fight.
Uhhhh............. yeah. ;) ;)
Like everything, there are pros and cons . I don’t think this is a serious attempt to say that this guy is better in any way than Floyd, it’s just pointing something out.
In the guys favour,
1. It’s a fantastic record
2. Massive kudos to be able to stay at this weight for so many fights. Manny starting a tad heavier than this and ended up at LMW. which brings me to the next point :lickish:
3. Not a whiff of PEDs.
4. Good mental strength to be able to be in top shape physically and mentally every fight, no bad days at the office.
Cons
1. By virtue of it being the Minimumweight, there are way less competitors
2. This means repeat fights and some with lesser experience/debutants
So in summary, the guy should be given massive respect for what he’s done and it is a moot point making any comparisons.Apples and Oranges.