Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
The more I have thought about this, the more I have seen so many parallels between GGG and Marvelous Marvin.
Both guys started their careers as 'outsiders', they were not from established boxing heartlands. Hagler was from Brockton and he relocated to New Jersey, well outside the main US boxing cradles of Philadelphia, Detroit etc.
In the smaller, more connected world 30 years later, Golovkin emerged from Kazakhstan (not Mexico, Britain or even Ukraine). GGG has had to build a foreign fan base, as PPV and earnings will not come from his homeland.
Joe Frazier said to Hagler early in his career "You've got three strikes against you, kid. You're black, you're a southpaw and you're good". Very true words in the 1970's, which led to Marvin fighting for years in small halls, at short notice and against hometown fighters. He didn't get a title shot until something like his 50th fight .... a near impossible statistic nowadays and even highly unusual back then. He fought very accomplished and dangerous fighters multiple times such as Bennie Briscoe, Boogaloo Watts and Kevin Finnegan. He was unquestionably one of the most avoided fighters in the world for several years prior to eventually getting his shot.
He was harshly treated in his fight with Antuofermo,which was adjudged a draw. When he cut Alan Minter to ribbons in front of his home fans, he didn't get the respect and recognition that he thought he deserved. In fact, it wasnt until his 10th defence against Tommy Hearns that recognition and status were forthcoming, and he was already just passing his prime by then.
GGG left his family behind and spent several years in Germany mowing down opponents unnoticed. It wasn't until he moved to America that he began to get rankings. His gym performances made sure he was avoided by the big names for as long as they could get away with it. He had three strikes against him, as Smokin Joe might have said: "he was from Kazakhstan with no fan base, he hardly spoke English, and he was good".
When he won the WBA middleweight title, he too made several defences invisible to the wider boxing public. It was seen as a 'minor' title as the WBA has their usual inexplicable Super champion who studiously avoided getting anywhere near GGG. He also made 10 defences before unifying and getting some long overdue recognition and larger purses.
Both guys had many things in common inside the ropes too. Granite chins that come along once in a generation, crushing power and in intimidating ring presence which hid extremely rounded and underrated boxing skills.
Both fighters then secured what they saw as their real big earner. A fight against the biggest draw in the sport, the golden boy backed by the biggest promoter and the biggest TV deal, moreover it was against a slick boxer from a lower weight division.
Ray Leonard had received more money for his professional debut than Hagler earned in his first 40 fights. He had the adulation, crossover appeal and the money that Hagler never had. Ray had been carefully steered to world title glory and had a history of making sure that he negotiated all the advantages in his favour. Hagler, the long reigning undisputed middleweight champion took the short end of the purse, wasnt the A side ....... and saw him lose a very very controversial decision.
Sound familiar?
GGG has again taken the short end of the purse, has again not been seen as the A Side, is coming off a controversial draw and is now comfortably past his physical prime.
Like Ray, Canelo is a very good fighter indeed. Unlike Ray, Canelo is young enough that he will be seen as the cash cow of the future. Does GGG believe that he has to conclusively KO Alvarez to have any chance of winning? What would have happened had Leonard granted an ageing Hagler a rematch a year later?
Does Canelo leave a permanent stain on GGGs legacy, does Golovkin get his revenge for the patently ridiculous Adalaide Byrd scorecard? Will the end of the fight be controversial again, do we get a third instalment?
All will be clear by tomorrow, but there are so many parallels with Marvelous Marvin Hagler, and so many cards once again stacked against GGG ....... that I wonder?
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
Very good, thought-out post....... up to here. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
Like Ray, Canelo is a very good fighter indeed. Unlike Ray, Canelo is young enough that he will be seen as the cash cow of the future. Does GGG believe that he has to conclusively KO Alvarez to have any chance of winning? What would have happened had Leonard granted an ageing Hagler a rematch a year later?
Does Canelo leave a permanent stain on GGGs legacy, does Golovkin get his revenge for the patently ridiculous Adalaide Byrd scorecard? Will the end of the fight be controversial again, do we get a third instalment?
All will be clear by tomorrow, but there are so many parallels with Marvelous Marvin Hagler, and so many cards once again stacked against GGG ....... that I wonder?
Putting SRL and Canelo in the same sentence paragraph universe is beyond sacrilege. SRL is an ATG with reasonable shots at claiming TBE. Canelo is a manufactured phenomenon since the very beginning, totally different from the fighters of the past, or even the kind that you're alluding to, who have had to work their way up. Canelo was handed everything on a silver spoon. Also, Canelo isn't just the cash cow of the future. Canelo's been the cash cow of the present and the recent past. Where we do agree is on GGG having to conclusively KO Canelo to have any chance of winning. Adelaide isn't there..... but Dave Moretti past scorecards always seem to favor Canelo just a little bit. So the deck is again stacked.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
What you say is true, I agree that Canelo is not in the same league as a fighter as Ray Leonard, so I wasn't trying to claim they were equal as boxers (ditto Golovkin and Hagler, but that is a whole different thread ;D) .... only that the circumstances are eerily similar.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
Golovkin = Hagler in every way.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
May sound odd but I think the bitterness and huge chip on his shoulder was genuine with Hagler where as Golovkin seems have a hard time being stern, surly or showing anger even when warranted. Even when Golovkin 'made it' he felt he had to work for broader acceptance to the point of catch phrases or wearing sombreros. Hagler would come off like he really didn't care what people thought and was completely fine with it.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
and both got screwed by the judges in the end
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
You are right. Golovkin should shave his head, retire and move to Italy now.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Golovkin = Hagler in every way.
except that Hagler was way,way,way above anything GGG has ever been. Or are we gonna start pretending Canelo is SRL? :rolleyes:
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Golovkin = Hagler in every way.
except that Hagler was way,way,way above anything GGG has ever been. Or are we gonna start pretending Canelo is SRL? :rolleyes:
Read the thread, we have explicitly said Canelo is no Leonard.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Golovkin = Hagler in every way.
except that Hagler was way,way,way above anything GGG has ever been. Or are we gonna start pretending Canelo is SRL? :rolleyes:
Read the thread,
we have explicitly said Canelo is no Leonard.
No, X said that, not you. The difference is that Hagler fought EVERY legitimate contender , and when some ATG’s came into his division, he fought them as well.
I was big on GGG a few years back, but then he sold his soul to the devil in a hypocritical manner.
Now if the thread said GGG = A poor man’s Hagler, there might be a fair point.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
Golovkin took on every conceivable opponent that was put in front of him and has not avoided anyone. When he was a challenger he was avoided for years. Just like Hagler.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
You guys can argue Hagler-GGG all day long and it's a legitimate boxing argument.
But pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease......... nobody put SRL and what's-his-name in the same sentence post universe again. I swear I'll get a brain hemorrhage.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Golovkin took on every conceivable opponent that was put in front of him and has not avoided anyone. When he was a challenger he was avoided for years. Just like Hagler.
true.......up until the time that he decided to fight Ginger pubes for dough instead of BJS for the 4th belt that he desperately wanted (so he says.) and he didn’t want the Jacobs rematch did he?
All these pair of cunts have been doing the last 2/3 years is avoiding everyone.
If he’d have turned around and said “look, I’m getting towards the end , I need to make some big dough, so I’ve got to dance to Ginge and fishnets’s tune, I would’ve been alright with it . But that’s not what he said is it?
Now he’s fucked! Of course he wants the rematch, until he realises that it’ll be 90/10 split! Made his bed I’m afraid.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Primo Carnera
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Golovkin took on every conceivable opponent that was put in front of him and has not avoided anyone. When he was a challenger he was avoided for years. Just like Hagler.
true.......up until the time that he decided to fight Ginger pubes for dough instead of BJS for the 4th belt that he desperately wanted (so he says.) and he didn’t want the Jacobs rematch did he?
All these pair of cunts have been doing the last 2/3 years is avoiding everyone.
If he’d have turned around and said “look, I’m getting towards the end , I need to make some big dough, so I’ve got to dance to Ginge and fishnets’s tune, I would’ve been alright with it . But that’s not what he said is it?
Now he’s fucked! Of course he wants the rematch, until he realises that it’ll be 90/10 split! Made his bed I’m afraid.
No one is life says they do it for the money, it is implied, you would not get out of bed for a certain amount of money that you are worth.
Even in interviews you say you want the job for other reasons and would even make up those reasons why you want the job.
Footballers say they have always wanted to go to the club, actors will say it was a great script ect
Give Golovkin a break he fought probably 2nd best middleweight in the division but got the raw end of the decisions.
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
I'm sure Hopkins was smiling the most at the decision .
Re: Gennady Golovkin: Deja vu with Marvin Hagler
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TitoFan
Very good, thought-out post....... up to here. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
X
Like Ray, Canelo is a very good fighter indeed. Unlike Ray, Canelo is young enough that he will be seen as the cash cow of the future. Does GGG believe that he has to conclusively KO Alvarez to have any chance of winning? What would have happened had Leonard granted an ageing Hagler a rematch a year later?
Does Canelo leave a permanent stain on GGGs legacy, does Golovkin get his revenge for the patently ridiculous Adalaide Byrd scorecard? Will the end of the fight be controversial again, do we get a third instalment?
All will be clear by tomorrow, but there are so many parallels with Marvelous Marvin Hagler, and so many cards once again stacked against GGG ....... that I wonder?
Putting SRL and Canelo in the same
sentence paragraph universe is
beyond sacrilege. SRL is an ATG with reasonable shots at claiming TBE. Canelo is a manufactured phenomenon since the very beginning, totally different from the fighters of the past, or even the kind that you're alluding to, who have had to work their way up. Canelo was handed everything on a silver spoon. Also, Canelo isn't just the cash cow of the future. Canelo's been the cash cow of the present and the recent past. Where we do agree is on GGG having to conclusively KO Canelo to have any chance of winning. Adelaide isn't there..... but Dave Moretti past scorecards always seem to favor Canelo just a little bit. So the deck is again stacked.
And mentioning GGG with Hagler.
