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Was GGG's legacy tainted by DRAW + LOSS?
Triple G was some kind of a nightmare in people's minds and I remember Shannon Briggs and 2016 saying that triple g hit as hard as a heavyweight. That he had some kind of freakish power. Now we all know that power does not disappear with age....
Triple G was knocking out everybody in sight. The punches look so easy the punches look so vicious The Leverage was so perfect it was freakish and frightening power
Then came the first fight with Canelo and the fight with Jacobs and then the second fight with Canelo.
that's 36 rounds without even a knock down let alone a knockout
and one could say that Canelo and Jacobs were the two best fighters that he ever faced. Not only that but Canelo is a smaller man and Jacob's was recovering from some kind of surgery
I think the Mystique of Triple G has been washed away by his last three fights. If Jacobs and Canelo can fight him to such close decisions what in God's name would a Marvin Hagler have done to him????
I think these last three fights have really exposed Triple G that although he is a very good fighter with occasional moments of greatness he can never be on the level of a Marvin Hagler. What do you all think?
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
I don't think they have tainted his legacy at all, the dude is getting old and fought the toughest opponent of his career and the vast majority of people feel he beat him regardless of the official result.
I also think you need to stop comparing fighters against the old time legends and look at their current competition and strength in divisions, a fighter can only beat what is in front of him, a fighter can't beat blokes who retired 40 years ago.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Couple things, he did knock Jacobs down.
And the last 4 fights with 3 solid opponents Jacobs/Canelo/Canelo have raised his legacy. That’s what happens when you fight good opposition, you raise your legacy.
And I think it’s fair of Brock to compare him to past greats when HBO just said “He’s a modern day Muhammad Ali”
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Yeah I forgot about that knockdown of Jacob's
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
I still can't remember the Jacobs knockdown
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Batman
I still can't remember the Jacobs knockdown
Was early, he doubled up the right so it was more of a pushed punch than a concussive punch. He caught Jacobs with his feet squared up so he lost balance.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
if you're a hagler fan, that's cool. if your objective is to tear everyone else down so they don't appear to come close, you might want to include scrutiny of all of the factors so that people can see how you've come to that conclusion. As Ron pointed out, Jacobs was knocked on his @ss-- (which you've acknowledged). Factors that also played into these victories such as GGG's age, Canelo's roid scandal, Jacobs IBF weight scandal are all things that seem conveniently forgotten by fans that are criticizing Golovkin.
I think the clenbuterol this is pretty fresh and has been discussed to death so I'll just include this one on the problems with detection (pay particular attention to the section labeled the problems with testing):
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2018/3/3...ed-failed-test
On Jacobs:
https://www.ringtv.com/489972-victor...-fight-weight/
https://www.boxingscene.com/jacobs-i...ferent--131379
Its already a general consensus from most fans, fighters and commentators that Golovkin was on the slide. This can be found all over you tube.
Now, i'm not saying that GGG couldn't have roided or played the scales too to even things out... he probably could have if he was so inclined on the roids... for the weight, his frame just wouldn't carry the weight the same weight a bigger framed middleweight like Jacob's can... or a chemically enhanced Canelo could. If his conscience is considered a detriment on the cheating thing, so be it. That's where I have a problem with people stating that canelo is the smaller guy. Canelo weighs in on fight night in the same neighborhood that Jacobs weighs in around 178-183. (He's done it with Chavez and others) -- Now people may say well its allowed in boxing as long as you make weight... maybe so, but it needs to be mentioned when talking about the playing field. The same way if GGG somehow magically could fight Hagler, he'd probably out weigh him on fight night even if only by a few pounds --or GGG's challenge to Floyd for 154 and does indicate an advantage. It deserves a mention.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
I think GGG's reign is one of a lost era. GGG hell of a fighter, great heart, always in shape, always doing the work in the ring, a good solid no flashy flash kind of fighter.
#1 thing that hurts GGG is Dimitry Pirog. Pirog bless his heart fucked his back up and couldn't continue boxing at all, but what a fucking fighter that guy was and he completely starched a very young very green Danny Jacobs. Had GGG fought Pirog then obviously it would have been a mega fight in Russia with a Kazakh vs a Russian and what a fight it would have been, but that never happened so that sort of bright shining moment in winning the title I mean it happened, but it wasn't as big. Not having a rival, not having to overcome a giant foe hurt him.
#2 Everyone expected all GGG fights to be like the Macklin, Geale, Stevens, etc fights with GGG walking through punishment, shaking it off like nothing, and then using his fists to chisel away and stop the other fighter and without KO's, without hurting an opponent, it's not like GGG offers up a slick style or anything, it's meat and potatoes boxing just workmanlike blue collar and fans tire of that because there's little drama in it.
#3 Scandals people forgot about....Canelo and clenbuterol, Jacobs and weight, I mean it's hard enough being the champ but to beat guys who at the VERY least were "coloring outside the lines" as it were it's extraordinarily difficult.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Canelo has proved to be a very good fighter at middleweight. I want to see him against other top middleweights to see if he is the real deal or just been fortunate.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
If anything I think the last few fights helped his legacy. His MW reign wasn’t filled with awesome opponents. He fought some solid guys, but Jacobs and Canelo are among the best. So he proved himself to be able to win against the best opposition.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
No.
Abso-FUKKING-lutely. :cool:
Oops..... no. Just noticed the title changed halfway through. I'm soooo confused. ;D
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
J_Undisputed and El Kabong summed it up perfectly.
GGG's legacy has not been tainted.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
It was still an advantage for him. Had GGG missed that 2nd day weight in he would have been stripped (he eventually was anyway), wasn't the 1st weigh in moved forward as well, giving even more extra time between the fight? Or was that for another fight?
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
It was still an advantage for him. Had GGG missed that 2nd day weight in he would have been stripped (he eventually was anyway), wasn't the 1st weigh in moved forward as well, giving even more extra time between the fight? Or was that for another fight?
I’m not sure about the weigh in time. If so that would be a matter worth noting IMO.
I don’t really care about advantages that are within the rules. He made weight according to the belts for which he fought. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see same day weigh ins and see people fight in their true weight class. But they can’t do that because they know people would still try to cut and rehydrate and it would be dangerous. If they changed the rules to same day weigh ins and pre fight weigh in with no more than 5% weight gain we’d see people fighting healthy at their true weight. But it would never happen because too many fights would not make the pre fight weigh.
So it is what it is and should be accepted as the legal playing field we have. Whining about advantages that are within the rules just seems weak. Some guys are better at cutting, some guys are faster, some are stronger, some hit harder, some have more skill. There will always be advantages. Legal advantages should not be a topic. Illegal advantages should be.
GGG has been a MW for 17 years. He’s not a small MW, he’s a MW. If others are big MWs, so what? Dude has never lost a fight as a professional and we talk about his disadvantages. Is this real life?
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
It was still an advantage for him. Had GGG missed that 2nd day weight in he would have been stripped (he eventually was anyway), wasn't the 1st weigh in moved forward as well, giving even more extra time between the fight? Or was that for another fight?
I’m not sure about the weigh in time. If so that would be a matter worth noting IMO.
I don’t really care about advantages that are within the rules. He made weight according to the belts for which he fought. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see same day weigh ins and see people fight in their true weight class. But they can’t do that because they know people would still try to cut and rehydrate and it would be dangerous. If they changed the rules to same day weigh ins and pre fight weigh in with no more than 5% weight gain we’d see people fighting healthy at their true weight. But it would never happen because too many fights would not make the pre fight weigh.
So it is what it is and should be accepted as the legal playing field we have. Whining about advantages that are within the rules just seems weak. Some guys are better at cutting, some guys are faster, some are stronger, some hit harder, some have more skill. There will always be advantages. Legal advantages should not be a topic. Illegal advantages should be.
GGG has been a MW for 17 years. He’s not a small MW, he’s a MW. If others are big MWs, so what? Dude has never lost a fight as a professional and we talk about his disadvantages. Is this real life?
I agree with you, that if a fighter makes the weight, then there should be no complaints. No one is whining here.
Thing is Jacobs didn't have to play by the same rules, GGG had to make the 2nd weigh in to keep his title.
Jacobs had that advantage. Is it GGGs fault for wanting to keep his title, and therefore having to abide by their rules?
The IBF have since removed the 2nd day weigh in for unification fights, due mainly to the GGG/Jacobs fight, sensing that this rule would unfairly handicap unified belt-holders like Golovkin.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
"Legacy tainting". Hmmm...... interesting.
IMO, legacies are tainted by: cheating, finding every way possible under the sun to stack the deck against your opponent BEFORE the fight, buying off judges, blatantly ducking other fighters at your level, being a total asshole in and out of the ring....... in short, shit like that. So no, GGG hasn't tainted his legacy.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
It was still an advantage for him. Had GGG missed that 2nd day weight in he would have been stripped (he eventually was anyway), wasn't the 1st weigh in moved forward as well, giving even more extra time between the fight? Or was that for another fight?
I’m not sure about the weigh in time. If so that would be a matter worth noting IMO.
I don’t really care about advantages that are within the rules. He made weight according to the belts for which he fought. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see same day weigh ins and see people fight in their true weight class. But they can’t do that because they know people would still try to cut and rehydrate and it would be dangerous. If they changed the rules to same day weigh ins and pre fight weigh in with no more than 5% weight gain we’d see people fighting healthy at their true weight. But it would never happen because too many fights would not make the pre fight weigh.
So it is what it is and should be accepted as the legal playing field we have. Whining about advantages that are within the rules just seems weak. Some guys are better at cutting, some guys are faster, some are stronger, some hit harder, some have more skill. There will always be advantages. Legal advantages should not be a topic. Illegal advantages should be.
GGG has been a MW for 17 years. He’s not a small MW, he’s a MW. If others are big MWs, so what? Dude has never lost a fight as a professional and we talk about his disadvantages. Is this real life?
I agree with you, that if a fighter makes the weight, then there should be no complaints. No one is whining here.
Thing is Jacobs didn't have to play by the same rules, GGG had to make the 2nd weigh in to keep his title.
Jacobs had that advantage. Is it GGGs fault for wanting to keep his title, and therefore having to abide by their rules?
The IBF have since removed the 2nd day weigh in for unification fights, due mainly to the GGG/Jacobs fight, sensing that this rule would unfairly handicap unified belt-holders like Golovkin.
Not saying you are whining just saying people do. It’s a nothing made into a something and people use it both ways. “It limits Golovkin” wait, those same people say Golovkin is small, if he is small it doesn’t affect him. And in actual real world measurements GGG is not going to be over the weight so it does not affect him at all. The only person it could have affected is Jacobs. And the 2nd way it is used is to suggest GGG is in an unfair fight, again, not the case. Jacobs made the weight according to the rules. This specific and temporary rule only seems to matter in this one fight, can you think of another fight people bring it up? And people bring it up to show Golovkin overcoming a cheat. He did not cheat. It’s propaganda when it is mentioned and it is mentioned often.
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
@Ron Swanson is right it's propaganda
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
It was still an advantage for him. Had GGG missed that 2nd day weight in he would have been stripped (he eventually was anyway), wasn't the 1st weigh in moved forward as well, giving even more extra time between the fight? Or was that for another fight?
I’m not sure about the weigh in time. If so that would be a matter worth noting IMO.
I don’t really care about advantages that are within the rules. He made weight according to the belts for which he fought. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see same day weigh ins and see people fight in their true weight class. But they can’t do that because they know people would still try to cut and rehydrate and it would be dangerous. If they changed the rules to same day weigh ins and pre fight weigh in with no more than 5% weight gain we’d see people fighting healthy at their true weight. But it would never happen because too many fights would not make the pre fight weigh.
So it is what it is and should be accepted as the legal playing field we have. Whining about advantages that are within the rules just seems weak. Some guys are better at cutting, some guys are faster, some are stronger, some hit harder, some have more skill. There will always be advantages. Legal advantages should not be a topic. Illegal advantages should be.
GGG has been a MW for 17 years. He’s not a small MW, he’s a MW. If others are big MWs, so what? Dude has never lost a fight as a professional and we talk about his disadvantages. Is this real life?
I agree with you, that if a fighter makes the weight, then there should be no complaints. No one is whining here.
Thing is Jacobs didn't have to play by the same rules, GGG had to make the 2nd weigh in to keep his title.
Jacobs had that advantage. Is it GGGs fault for wanting to keep his title, and therefore having to abide by their rules?
The IBF have since removed the 2nd day weigh in for unification fights, due mainly to the GGG/Jacobs fight, sensing that this rule would unfairly handicap unified belt-holders like Golovkin.
Not saying you are whining just saying people do. It’s a nothing made into a something and people use it both ways. “It limits Golovkin” wait, those same people say Golovkin is small, if he is small it doesn’t affect him. And in actual real world measurements GGG is not going to be over the weight so it does not affect him at all. The only person it could have affected is Jacobs. And the 2nd way it is used is to suggest GGG is in an unfair fight, again, not the case. Jacobs made the weight according to the rules. This specific and temporary rule only seems to matter in this one fight, can you think of another fight people bring it up? And people bring it up to show Golovkin overcoming a cheat. He did not cheat. It’s propaganda when it is mentioned and it is mentioned often.
Never heard much of an issue being made about Jacobs "cheating" or anything of the sort. This is where I'm reading most of it. Maybe it's because it can't be heard over the din over the other middleweight fighter who actually DOES cheat.
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Oh by the way..... good job on the title change, @whoever. ;)
I'd have to go back and change my original answer a few posts back from "no" to "yes" now.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
It was still an advantage for him. Had GGG missed that 2nd day weight in he would have been stripped (he eventually was anyway), wasn't the 1st weigh in moved forward as well, giving even more extra time between the fight? Or was that for another fight?
Both kinda. I think the commission moved the weigh in forward because there was another fight happening in NY on the same date and their weigh in had to be done also.
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
It was still an advantage for him. Had GGG missed that 2nd day weight in he would have been stripped (he eventually was anyway), wasn't the 1st weigh in moved forward as well, giving even more extra time between the fight? Or was that for another fight?
I’m not sure about the weigh in time. If so that would be a matter worth noting IMO.
I don’t really care about advantages that are within the rules. He made weight according to the belts for which he fought. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see same day weigh ins and see people fight in their true weight class. But they can’t do that because they know people would still try to cut and rehydrate and it would be dangerous. If they changed the rules to same day weigh ins and pre fight weigh in with no more than 5% weight gain we’d see people fighting healthy at their true weight. But it would never happen because too many fights would not make the pre fight weigh.
So it is what it is and should be accepted as the legal playing field we have. Whining about advantages that are within the rules just seems weak. Some guys are better at cutting, some guys are faster, some are stronger, some hit harder, some have more skill. There will always be advantages. Legal advantages should not be a topic. Illegal advantages should be.
GGG has been a MW for 17 years. He’s not a small MW, he’s a MW. If others are big MWs, so what? Dude has never lost a fight as a professional and we talk about his disadvantages. Is this real life?
I agree with you, that if a fighter makes the weight, then there should be no complaints. No one is whining here.
Thing is Jacobs didn't have to play by the same rules, GGG had to make the 2nd weigh in to keep his title.
Jacobs had that advantage. Is it GGGs fault for wanting to keep his title, and therefore having to abide by their rules?
The IBF have since removed the 2nd day weigh in for unification fights, due mainly to the GGG/Jacobs fight, sensing that this rule would unfairly handicap unified belt-holders like Golovkin.
Not saying you are whining just saying people do.
It’s a nothing made into a something and people use it both ways. “It limits Golovkin” wait, those same people say Golovkin is small, if he is small it doesn’t affect him. And in actual real world measurements GGG is not going to be over the weight so it does not affect him at all.
The only person it could have affected is Jacobs. And the 2nd way it is used is to suggest GGG is in an unfair fight, again, not the case. Jacobs made the weight according to the rules. This specific and temporary rule only seems to matter in this one fight, can you think of another fight people bring it up? And people bring it up to show Golovkin overcoming a cheat. He did not cheat. It’s propaganda when it is mentioned and it is mentioned often.
The reason rules like this were created was because of another fight like Gatti/Gamache. A fight in which both fighters weighed in according to the rules a catch weight of 141 pounds. Gamache weighed in over the weight at 145 on fight night and Gatti weighed in over the weight at 160. The difference of 15 pounds almost killed gamache (he survived affected with brain damage) and ended his boxing career. Jacobs was already 16 pounds heavier the second morning and 6 lbs over the ibf rehydration weigh in/ golovkin's weight... with still at least 12 hours to go before fight time. Some fighters are born with more pop, some with less. Within reasonable weight disparity, even a fighter with no pop probably has enough mass behind his punches to be at least a partial deterrent to their opponent shrugging off their punches, waltzing in and teeing off. Propaganda is not a term id use to describe possibly killing a person because its justified within the rules. Can't really call it "sport" then .
https://www.fightsaga.com/tidbits-94758/item/3566-arturo-gatti-nearly-killed-joey-gamache-in-the-ring-should-weigh-ins-happen-on-fight-day-video
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by his last three fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
It was still an advantage for him. Had GGG missed that 2nd day weight in he would have been stripped (he eventually was anyway), wasn't the 1st weigh in moved forward as well, giving even more extra time between the fight? Or was that for another fight?
I’m not sure about the weigh in time. If so that would be a matter worth noting IMO.
I don’t really care about advantages that are within the rules. He made weight according to the belts for which he fought. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see same day weigh ins and see people fight in their true weight class. But they can’t do that because they know people would still try to cut and rehydrate and it would be dangerous. If they changed the rules to same day weigh ins and pre fight weigh in with no more than 5% weight gain we’d see people fighting healthy at their true weight. But it would never happen because too many fights would not make the pre fight weigh.
So it is what it is and should be accepted as the legal playing field we have. Whining about advantages that are within the rules just seems weak. Some guys are better at cutting, some guys are faster, some are stronger, some hit harder, some have more skill. There will always be advantages. Legal advantages should not be a topic. Illegal advantages should be.
GGG has been a MW for 17 years. He’s not a small MW, he’s a MW. If others are big MWs, so what? Dude has never lost a fight as a professional and we talk about his disadvantages. Is this real life?
I agree with you, that if a fighter makes the weight, then there should be no complaints. No one is whining here.
Thing is Jacobs didn't have to play by the same rules, GGG had to make the 2nd weigh in to keep his title.
Jacobs had that advantage. Is it GGGs fault for wanting to keep his title, and therefore having to abide by their rules?
The IBF have since removed the 2nd day weigh in for unification fights, due mainly to the GGG/Jacobs fight, sensing that this rule would unfairly handicap unified belt-holders like Golovkin.
As a fan, I prefer same-day weigh-ins. Have both fighters be exactly the same weight when they face off in the ring. (This would've made a shambles of the careers of both Canelo and JCC Junior, BTW). The argument against this is that "oh... but fighters will dehydrate dangerously to make weight and then they can't even take a piss." Ok, so then the IBF rules make the most sense. Weigh ins the day before the fight, THEN a 2nd weigh in, limiting the amount of weight gained for the day of the fight. Having one org with that rule and the others not following suit is nonsense. A medical authority should step in and force the orgs to standardize on that. That way we don't have this mess in unification fights because everybody will be playing by the same rules. This ain't rocket science, but it's boxing. So obviously it will be convoluted, twisted, complicated and distorted until absolutely nothing is done.
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Canelo's legacy has been Mexican beef for years. When I was in McAllen, all the grocery stores sold Mexican beef and, to promote it, they used Canelo. You would walk into the store and see 500 pictures of him and 50 life size cardboard cutouts.
The beef was good. Knowing what I know now, I would have tried high jumping or running really fast to see if it helped me at all.
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J_Undisputed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
It was still an advantage for him. Had GGG missed that 2nd day weight in he would have been stripped (he eventually was anyway), wasn't the 1st weigh in moved forward as well, giving even more extra time between the fight? Or was that for another fight?
I’m not sure about the weigh in time. If so that would be a matter worth noting IMO.
I don’t really care about advantages that are within the rules. He made weight according to the belts for which he fought. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see same day weigh ins and see people fight in their true weight class. But they can’t do that because they know people would still try to cut and rehydrate and it would be dangerous. If they changed the rules to same day weigh ins and pre fight weigh in with no more than 5% weight gain we’d see people fighting healthy at their true weight. But it would never happen because too many fights would not make the pre fight weigh.
So it is what it is and should be accepted as the legal playing field we have. Whining about advantages that are within the rules just seems weak. Some guys are better at cutting, some guys are faster, some are stronger, some hit harder, some have more skill. There will always be advantages. Legal advantages should not be a topic. Illegal advantages should be.
GGG has been a MW for 17 years. He’s not a small MW, he’s a MW. If others are big MWs, so what? Dude has never lost a fight as a professional and we talk about his disadvantages. Is this real life?
I agree with you, that if a fighter makes the weight, then there should be no complaints. No one is whining here.
Thing is Jacobs didn't have to play by the same rules, GGG had to make the 2nd weigh in to keep his title.
Jacobs had that advantage. Is it GGGs fault for wanting to keep his title, and therefore having to abide by their rules?
The IBF have since removed the 2nd day weigh in for unification fights, due mainly to the GGG/Jacobs fight, sensing that this rule would unfairly handicap unified belt-holders like Golovkin.
Not saying you are whining just saying people do.
It’s a nothing made into a something and people use it both ways. “It limits Golovkin” wait, those same people say Golovkin is small, if he is small it doesn’t affect him. And in actual real world measurements GGG is not going to be over the weight so it does not affect him at all.
The only person it could have affected is Jacobs. And the 2nd way it is used is to suggest GGG is in an unfair fight, again, not the case. Jacobs made the weight according to the rules. This specific and temporary rule only seems to matter in this one fight, can you think of another fight people bring it up? And people bring it up to show Golovkin overcoming a cheat. He did not cheat. It’s propaganda when it is mentioned and it is mentioned often.
The reason rules like this were created was because of
another fight like Gatti/Gamache. A fight in which both fighters weighed in
according to the rules a catch weight of 141 pounds. Gamache weighed in
over the weight at 145 on fight night and Gatti weighed in
over the weight at 160. The difference of 15 pounds almost killed gamache (he survived
affected with brain damage) and ended his boxing career. Jacobs was already 16 pounds heavier the second morning and 6 lbs over the ibf rehydration weigh in/ golovkin's weight... with still at least 12 hours to go before fight time. Some fighters are born with more pop, some with less. Within reasonable weight disparity, even a fighter with no pop probably has enough mass behind his punches to be at least a partial deterrent to their opponent shrugging off their punches, waltzing in and teeing off. Propaganda is not a term id use to describe possibly killing a person because its justified within the rules. Can't really call it "sport" then .
https://www.fightsaga.com/tidbits-94758/item/3566-arturo-gatti-nearly-killed-joey-gamache-in-the-ring-should-weigh-ins-happen-on-fight-day-video
Great post. Jacobs had an unfair advantage, the IBF have changed the rule for the very reason that it could give an unfair advantage. GGGs team let him down again, they should have put something in the contract that the 2nd day weigh in must be observed.
It will be interesting to see how Jacobs handles his upcoming IBF fight, and if there is any noticeable affects of him having to make the 2nd day weigh in.
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
J_Undisputed
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alpha
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
I’d like to see the weight stuff stop being referenced in regards to GGG/Jacobs. Jacobs didn’t fight for the IBF belt so he didn’t have to do the 2nd weigh in. He made weight for the fight
It was still an advantage for him. Had GGG missed that 2nd day weight in he would have been stripped (he eventually was anyway), wasn't the 1st weigh in moved forward as well, giving even more extra time between the fight? Or was that for another fight?
I’m not sure about the weigh in time. If so that would be a matter worth noting IMO.
I don’t really care about advantages that are within the rules. He made weight according to the belts for which he fought. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to see same day weigh ins and see people fight in their true weight class. But they can’t do that because they know people would still try to cut and rehydrate and it would be dangerous. If they changed the rules to same day weigh ins and pre fight weigh in with no more than 5% weight gain we’d see people fighting healthy at their true weight. But it would never happen because too many fights would not make the pre fight weigh.
So it is what it is and should be accepted as the legal playing field we have. Whining about advantages that are within the rules just seems weak. Some guys are better at cutting, some guys are faster, some are stronger, some hit harder, some have more skill. There will always be advantages. Legal advantages should not be a topic. Illegal advantages should be.
GGG has been a MW for 17 years. He’s not a small MW, he’s a MW. If others are big MWs, so what? Dude has never lost a fight as a professional and we talk about his disadvantages. Is this real life?
I agree with you, that if a fighter makes the weight, then there should be no complaints. No one is whining here.
Thing is Jacobs didn't have to play by the same rules, GGG had to make the 2nd weigh in to keep his title.
Jacobs had that advantage. Is it GGGs fault for wanting to keep his title, and therefore having to abide by their rules?
The IBF have since removed the 2nd day weigh in for unification fights, due mainly to the GGG/Jacobs fight, sensing that this rule would unfairly handicap unified belt-holders like Golovkin.
Not saying you are whining just saying people do.
It’s a nothing made into a something and people use it both ways. “It limits Golovkin” wait, those same people say Golovkin is small, if he is small it doesn’t affect him. And in actual real world measurements GGG is not going to be over the weight so it does not affect him at all.
The only person it could have affected is Jacobs. And the 2nd way it is used is to suggest GGG is in an unfair fight, again, not the case. Jacobs made the weight according to the rules. This specific and temporary rule only seems to matter in this one fight, can you think of another fight people bring it up? And people bring it up to show Golovkin overcoming a cheat. He did not cheat. It’s propaganda when it is mentioned and it is mentioned often.
The reason rules like this were created was because of
another fight like Gatti/Gamache. A fight in which both fighters weighed in
according to the rules a catch weight of 141 pounds. Gamache weighed in
over the weight at 145 on fight night and Gatti weighed in
over the weight at 160. The difference of 15 pounds almost killed gamache (he survived
affected with brain damage) and ended his boxing career. Jacobs was already 16 pounds heavier the second morning and 6 lbs over the ibf rehydration weigh in/ golovkin's weight... with still at least 12 hours to go before fight time. Some fighters are born with more pop, some with less. Within reasonable weight disparity, even a fighter with no pop probably has enough mass behind his punches to be at least a partial deterrent to their opponent shrugging off their punches, waltzing in and teeing off. Propaganda is not a term id use to describe possibly killing a person because its justified within the rules. Can't really call it "sport" then .
https://www.fightsaga.com/tidbits-94758/item/3566-arturo-gatti-nearly-killed-joey-gamache-in-the-ring-should-weigh-ins-happen-on-fight-day-video
Great post. Jacobs had an unfair advantage, the IBF have changed the rule for the very reason that it could give an unfair advantage. GGGs team let him down again, they should have put something in the contract that the 2nd day weigh in must be observed.
It will be interesting to see how Jacobs handles his upcoming IBF fight, and if there is any noticeable affects of him having to make the 2nd day weigh in.
It could give an unfair advantage but did not since GGG would not have weighed over the limit either way. But here we are nearly 2 years later talking about something that had absolutely no affect on anyone. People really don’t see an issue with this? Let’s talk about which fighter likes gummy bears, gummy bears had just as much affect 😉
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
The weight must have made a difference the punches that Jacobs absorbed and recovered from the knock down with.
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
The weight must have made a difference the punches that Jacobs absorbed and recovered from the knock down with.
The legal weight made a difference? This is absurd. Are you all just trolling?
Your martyr got the victory FFS, stop crying for him
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
I dare anyone to put their name next to saying GGG would have been heavier if not for the 2nd day weigh in. Go ahead, show your word means nothing
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
The weight must have made a difference the punches that Jacobs absorbed and recovered from the knock down with.
The legal weight made a difference? This is absurd. Are you all just trolling?
Your martyr got the victory FFS, stop crying for him
Now do not get upset and be truthful to yourself.
There was a reason why Jacobs weighed heavy and that was to take the power shots.
It worked as Jacobs would have been stopped in the fight.
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
The weight must have made a difference the punches that Jacobs absorbed and recovered from the knock down with.
The legal weight made a difference? This is absurd. Are you all just trolling?
Your martyr got the victory FFS, stop crying for him
Now do not get upset and be truthful to yourself.
There was a reason why Jacobs weighed heavy and that was to take the power shots.
It worked as Jacobs would have been stopped in the fight.
Jacobs made weight. Your martyr fought a man that made the MW limit. Cry for someone else
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
The weight must have made a difference the punches that Jacobs absorbed and recovered from the knock down with.
The legal weight made a difference? This is absurd. Are you all just trolling?
Your martyr got the victory FFS, stop crying for him
Now do not get upset and be truthful to yourself.
There was a reason why Jacobs weighed heavy and that was to take the power shots.
It worked as Jacobs would have been stopped in the fight.
Funny you say be truthful in a statement you lied in. Jacobs did not weigh heavy liar. He skipped the 2nd weigh in. Would he have been heavy, sure. But don’t change the facts for your martyr
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Since everyone wants to rewrite what happened with no regard to truth here is what happened
https://www.boxingscene.com/jacobs-i...ferent--131379
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
The weight must have made a difference the punches that Jacobs absorbed and recovered from the knock down with.
The legal weight made a difference? This is absurd. Are you all just trolling?
Your martyr got the victory FFS, stop crying for him
Now do not get upset and be truthful to yourself.
There was a reason why Jacobs weighed heavy and that was to take the power shots.
It worked as Jacobs would have been stopped in the fight.
Funny you say be truthful in a statement you lied in. Jacobs did not weigh heavy liar. He skipped the 2nd weigh in. Would he have been heavy, sure. But don’t change the facts for your martyr
So he weighed heavy.
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
The weight must have made a difference the punches that Jacobs absorbed and recovered from the knock down with.
The legal weight made a difference? This is absurd. Are you all just trolling?
Your martyr got the victory FFS, stop crying for him
#MastersMartyrs bwaaaaHAHAHA 😂 😂
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Re: Was Canelo's legacy tainted by beef?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
brocktonblockbust
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ron Swanson
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Master
The weight must have made a difference the punches that Jacobs absorbed and recovered from the knock down with.
The legal weight made a difference? This is absurd. Are you all just trolling?
Your martyr got the victory FFS, stop crying for him
#MastersMartyrs bwaaaaHAHAHA 😂 😂
There you have the evidence I am right with this wally agreeing to with you
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by DRAW + LOSS?
How was GGG's performance against MUCH-SMALLER Canelo?
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Re: Was GGG's legacy tainted by DRAW + LOSS?
Why would I believe Jacobs fibbing for the second time when I didn't believe him the first. It's understandable that Jacobs fans don't believe Abel Sanchez on his weight but even victor Conte who Jacobs was working with, predicted he would weight between 178-180.
“I predict Danny will be between 178-180 when he steps into the ring. He was at 176 at 8 a.m. this morning. Don’t be surprised if Danny does very well this evening. He had a tremendous training camp on the west coast. He spent the last four weeks of his training camp at my SNAC training facility in San Carlos, California. He is in the best shape of his life. He will be huge tonight when he steps into the ring! Danny will be big, fast and powerful. We will soon see how this all plays out.”
Conte said he knew Friday night Jacobs would not be doing the morning of weight check, for the record.
https://www.ringtv.com/489972-victor...-fight-weight/
