Others not on the video:
Kovalev-Ward I
Castillo-Mayweather I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCy2gN8s7VE
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Others not on the video:
Kovalev-Ward I
Castillo-Mayweather I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCy2gN8s7VE
I'm going to quickly List the 10 off the top of my head and then I'm going to watch the video to see how many I named. Here's what comes to mind off the top of my head:
Oscar Dela Hoya Felix Trinidad
George Foreman Shannon Briggs
Earnie Shavers Muhammad Ali
Ken Norton Muhammad Ali 3
Campillo vs Cloud
Holyfield vs Valuev
Also you're an actual casual if you think Manny was robbed against Bradley in their first fight
That Toney robbery got me mad sad tho
Toney didn't even want to celebrate it
Haven't watched the vid yet but a few I'd have:
Hagler vs Antuofermo
Santa Cruz vs Casamayor
Zarata vs Pintor
Ali vs Young
There are so many.
About half the examples in the video are good ones. Almost everything added by others were just close fights that could be scored differently.. Cloud vs campillo WAS a robbery, It’s hard to have Trinidad winning more rounds than Oscar of course, but a guy who literally refuses to fight in every championship round, being so sure that he had 4 in a row he could just completely piss away, is hard to feel sorry for. Whittaker vs Chavez and Ramirez were robberies. Chisora vs helinius was a robbery.
Canelo v GGG at least once.
Typically young guy can't even dig back into the 90s or 80's to find an example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis 1
And ALMOST 2....I thought Evander did MUCH better in the rematch and the stats prove that out, but not a "robbery" just figured I'd give a shoutout to the more competitive of the two matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
De la Hoya - Trinidad
De la Hoya - Mosley 2...at the VERY least Oscar won the rematch watch the fight, look at the stats, how it's any other way just shows you the judging is imperfect
Lyle, post the sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAnd ALMOST 2....I thought Evander did MUCH better in the rematch and the stats prove that out, but not a "robbery" just figured I'd give a shoutout to the more competitive of the two matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
De la Hoya - Trinidad
De la Hoya - Mosley 2...at the VERY least Oscar won the rematch watch the fight, look at the stats, how it's any other way just shows you the judging is imperfect
Just stirring the turd ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by brocktonblockbustLyle, post the sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by El KabongAnd ALMOST 2....I thought Evander did MUCH better in the rematch and the stats prove that out, but not a "robbery" just figured I'd give a shoutout to the more competitive of the two matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chino
De la Hoya - Trinidad
De la Hoya - Mosley 2...at the VERY least Oscar won the rematch watch the fight, look at the stats, how it's any other way just shows you the judging is imperfect
Not sure if it is a robbery, but I thought Whitaker beat Chavez. It wasn’t the most blatant robbery, but difficult for me to see that one being a draw.
I thought Hagler beat Leonard pretty bad in that fight. Leonard has his moments, but they were not consistent, especially throughout the round itself.
I feel that BHop won both fights vs Jermain Taylor and thought at worst he deserved a draw vs Calzaghe. His style had become “boring” by then, and he tended to try and shut the other guy’s offense down and do just enough to steal the round. That being said, I felt he beat both of those guys.
Oscar vs Tito was pretty bad. I like Tito, and think the weight hurt him in that one, but Oscar won that night.
I’m a huge Evander fan. I thought he lost the first fight to Lewis, but thought he won the rematch. He lost one and drew one with Ruiz and I thought he deserved both of those. He outright lost one to Ruiz as well.
I thought Gatti deserved at least one of those fights vs Robinson.
Jeff Fenech won the first fight vs Azumah Nelson.
I’m gonna go with some amateur bouts.
1984 - Tyrell Biggs v Francesco Damiani
1988 - Roy Jones Jr. V the Korean guy
2012 - Savón v Joshua
2012 - Cammarelle v Joshua
@El Kabong Lyle knows that the reason I said that is because somebody asked him for sources on another thread. I was just doing a parody of that. Lyle please fill in Primo car near about this stuff so that we don't have another inadvertent scenario
Foreman v Briggs up there. I think Randall was robbed in Chavez rematch. Eder Gonzalez wasn't just robbed v Juan M Coggi 1, the ref was basically a felony conspirator. Beasley was robbed when the ref wouldn't get off his chest. Mo Harris robbed v Larry Holmes. Sturm robbed v Oscar. Adolpho Washington robbed v Orlin Norris I. Lamar Murphy robbed v Miguel A Gonzalez. Sergio Martinez robbed twice..of a ko and a decision v Kermit Cintron. Manny v Mayweather was plenty of robbery.
There are bad decisions and then there are robberies. Bad decisions are like the GGG and Canelo fights. You could score it for Canelo but most people had it for GGG. Bad decision but not a robbery.
The biggest robbery I’ve seen was Lara vs Williams. That was a completely one sided fight and Williams somehow won. Also, De La Hoya easily beat Tito and lost the decision. I consider it a robbery because I don’t know how you could have scored it for Tito.
There are other ones too but that’s all I can think of at the moment. I’ve seen plenty of bad decisions, but robberies are more rare.
When discussing robberies we usually focus on bad judges, but what about referees that have inserted themselves into fights to the point that they decided the outcomes? Some examples I can think of:
1. G-Man vs. Benn: Don’t want to offend my British friends so I will admit potential bias, but I remember the ref literally holding McLellan back after putting Benn through the ropes and providing Nigel with a few crucial extra seconds to clear his head. I also felt Benn got away with a ridiculous number of rabbit punches throughout the fight.
2. Floyd vs. Ricky Hatton: I feel that Ricky’s best chance was to fight inside and maul Floyd, not the prettiest tactic but his only shot at winning. I remember the ref constantly admonishing/warning Ricky and affecting the way he fought.
3. Chavez vs. Meldrick Taylor: I think Richard Steele was a great ref and I don’t think his last second stoppage was ill intentioned. That being said, that call cost Taylor more than just his belt and that fight. Maybe Meldrick ends up damaged goods regardless, but he at least deserved to have that win after leaving such a big part of himself in that ring.
Benn fell through the ropes so G Man had to be held back.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
It’s weird because when I posted I was thinking the same thing about bad referees.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Rocky Juarez was infamous for having judges on his side. I never thought he was good or even that popular, yet they tried to push him so hard. When he fought Raheem, the referee wouldn’t let Raheem do anything and kept deducting points for no reason. It was so bad. Then Raheem still won most rounds and even with the point deductions should have won the fight, but the judges gave it to Juarez. Awful all around.
If you watch the fight again you will see that Benn is back in the ring but still out of it. Gerald continually tries to go after him and finish him off and the ref pushes him back multiple times while looking back to make sure Benn has his wits about him. Even the commentators mention it. One of them aka what the hell the ref is doing....Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBenn fell through the ropes so G Man had to be held back.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I may be biased though, so watch for yourself and make up your own mind.
Just watched it again, definitely not biased. He holds G-Man back twice to give Benn more time. Disgraceful.
Yes he did get in the way 3 times which was more incompetence and nerves than helping Benn. It was fraction of seconds and G Man was given enough chance to finish Benn off. The ref split them very quickly which favours G Man as Benn would have preferred tying him up him to survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeodIf you watch the fight again you will see that Benn is back in the ring but still out of it. Gerald continually tries to go after him and finish him off and the ref pushes him back multiple times while looking back to make sure Benn has his wits about him. Even the commentators mention it. One of them aka what the hell the ref is doing....Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterBenn fell through the ropes so G Man had to be held back.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
I may be biased though, so watch for yourself and make up your own mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
1. Agreed, if that fight was in the US it would have been a TKO 1. Props to Benn for mounting the come back the very next round. The fight should have been stopped when G-Man couldn't hold his mouthpiece in properly. A ringside doctor would have probably taken a close look these days (I would hope)
2. You have to fight/play the way the ref calls it...it happens in every sport and the absolute BEST fighters are the ones who can adapt and make the ref work for them, the worst is Andrew Golota handsdown because a ref would warn him and then he'd be all "Ya mean like this?" (repeats foul) "So you're saying I can't do this right here?" (repeats foul)....my word that guy. Lots of promise as a boxer, not much as a thinker ;D
3. Meldrick Taylor did himself and IMO the boxing world a disservice by becoming a Philly Brawler. He was SUCH a promising fighter, handspeed like nobody else, but I guess Lou Duva and being from the Smokin' Joe Frazier Gym he ended up being more of a pressure fighter instead of a pure boxer....nothing wrong with being a pressure fighter, but he would have lasted longer and done better in his career had he been punched less. In the fight vs Buddy McGirt Lou Duva told Taylor to fight like Hank Armstrong....a very tall order for any fighter...I think there was this idea that he could walk through everyone like that just because of his handspeed, power, and stamina and that was NEARLY true, but hell as a fighter you have to be able to find multiple routes to your end destination it's not good just to have 1 path to victory which is what they did for JCC...but who knows if the judges would have scored it for him had he coasted for the final rounds.
I'm not much of a Lou Duva fan at all
That crooked ref Cortez must have been paid off by Mayweather's management.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Hatton appeared to be winning until he was deducted a point for nothing, after that the dodgy ref was in his face repeatedly for no good reason and Ricky became frustrated. He was fighting two men in there that night.
Cortez did a lot of shady stuff in other fights, I remember one time the HBO commentators called him out for it.
Andre Ward has always been far dirtier than Hatton ever was, but his scumbag home referees let him get away with it.
What about the extra time Wilder received vs Ortiz?
Or Bute vs Andrade.
Not just the fan speaking and with mass respect to both Benn and McClellan but I always felt G Man had his fair share of shots behind the ear back of the head as well. Not that either were malicious or looking to build a foul with it but that was an absolute free swinging exchange market as long as it lasted. Benns ducking and weaving in 1st on the ropes saw two arcing McClellan bombs also catch him on the back-top of head to help him out of the ropes. Tremendous onslaught regardless and frankly shocked Benn made it back in under 10 seconds. McClellan was meant to be something special and the amount both took from flush shots really cut them short. G Mans after care and tragic quality of life can indict the sport and it's officials. Good mention on the mouthpiece and even early with McClellan motioning to his head you started to get a feeling he was a fighter in distress but it all caught up in the worst way.
Have to admit didn't care for Cortez and his love to be a part of the action. Reminded of the Humberto Soto "L" to Francisco Lorenzo by DQ. Lorenzo gets battered from bell 1 but puts on an Oscar winning performance on after thought pulled punch from Soto and Cortez loses the plot.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomThat crooked ref Cortez must have been paid off by Mayweather's management.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeeod
Hatton appeared to be winning until he was deducted a point for nothing, after that the dodgy ref was in his face repeatedly for no good reason and Ricky became frustrated. He was fighting two men in there that night.
Cortez did a lot of shady stuff in other fights, I remember one time the HBO commentators called him out for it.
Andre Ward has always been far dirtier than Hatton ever was, but his scumbag home referees let him get away with it.