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Wilder came in at 211 pounds. WAY too light against a HW. Yes, he wanted to go a longer distance, but at the end of the day when your muscles tire out due to lack of having enough of them, then what do you do?
Wilder should just focus on cardio and weight training, forget whatever that stupid diet was he had- EAT LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING, and then run to get your lungs up. It was clear he had no zip and zap after he loaded up. He had no muscles.
I thought that before the fight , but after watching that, he could come in 30lbs heavier and it wouldn’t make any difference. HE CANNOT BOX.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
I can’t find anything you wrote that makes any sense. His muscles tired out due to not having enough of them? He should just focus on cardio and weight training? He’s very fit, or he wouldn’t continuously bail himself out in the late rounds. having extra muscle mass would only make his punches even easier to see coming, and he was never going to be a guy who grinds someone down on the inside. It might well be too late entirely, but what he should have been focusing on exclusively for years is actually learning to box, to feint himself, use his feet properly, throw straight punches without giving such massive tells on his right hand, etc. His weight had absolutely nothing to do with that fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
Wilder must be hollow to weigh as little as he does for his height. He was tired, bruised and outboxed against Fury.
Tyson caught him numerous times with right hands but the weight was not a big factor as I thought it would have been. Fury kept it at distance.
So I guess you have NO CLUE about muscle mass and having better, more responsive twitch fibres in your muscles? Why do guys take PED's then?Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pkingI can’t find anything you wrote that makes any sense. His muscles tired out due to not having enough of them? He should just focus on cardio and weight training? He’s very fit, or he wouldn’t continuously bail himself out in the late rounds. having extra muscle mass would only make his punches even easier to see coming, and he was never going to be a guy who grinds someone down on the inside. It might well be too late entirely, but what he should have been focusing on exclusively for years is actually learning to box, to feint himself, use his feet properly, throw straight punches without giving such massive tells on his right hand, etc. His weight had absolutely nothing to do with that fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
The man took off too much weight along with muscle mass- Like how Stiverne came in against Wilder the first time and get got zapped by the 5th round.
Wilder was too light to land hard punches all night- Literally after every swing, even the one that floored Fury in the 12th, he was zapped.
Shut up and listen, or read, next time.
As a trainer my professional opinion is he was right and everything you’ve said is wrong. Perhaps you should shut up and listen, or read next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaSo I guess you have NO CLUE about muscle mass and having better, more responsive twitch fibres in your muscles? Why do guys take PED's then?Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pkingI can’t find anything you wrote that makes any sense. His muscles tired out due to not having enough of them? He should just focus on cardio and weight training? He’s very fit, or he wouldn’t continuously bail himself out in the late rounds. having extra muscle mass would only make his punches even easier to see coming, and he was never going to be a guy who grinds someone down on the inside. It might well be too late entirely, but what he should have been focusing on exclusively for years is actually learning to box, to feint himself, use his feet properly, throw straight punches without giving such massive tells on his right hand, etc. His weight had absolutely nothing to do with that fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
The man took off too much weight along with muscle mass- Like how Stiverne came in against Wilder the first time and get got zapped by the 5th round.
Wilder was too light to land hard punches all night- Literally after every swing, even the one that floored Fury in the 12th, he was zapped.
Shut up and listen, or read, next time.
Muscle uses ATP which is replaced by the ATP cycle, more muscle, more used, faster fatigue. As the Krebs cycle can’t turn ADP back into ATP for more energy fast enough. Never seen a muscle bound marathon runner have you?
I am a fitness coach, an MMA one at that, sir. Been one for the better half of 10 years. A former fighter, albeit Amateur level boxing and exhibition kickboxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonAs a trainer my professional opinion is he was right and everything you’ve said is wrong. Perhaps you should shut up and listen, or read next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaSo I guess you have NO CLUE about muscle mass and having better, more responsive twitch fibres in your muscles? Why do guys take PED's then?Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pkingI can’t find anything you wrote that makes any sense. His muscles tired out due to not having enough of them? He should just focus on cardio and weight training? He’s very fit, or he wouldn’t continuously bail himself out in the late rounds. having extra muscle mass would only make his punches even easier to see coming, and he was never going to be a guy who grinds someone down on the inside. It might well be too late entirely, but what he should have been focusing on exclusively for years is actually learning to box, to feint himself, use his feet properly, throw straight punches without giving such massive tells on his right hand, etc. His weight had absolutely nothing to do with that fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
The man took off too much weight along with muscle mass- Like how Stiverne came in against Wilder the first time and get got zapped by the 5th round.
Wilder was too light to land hard punches all night- Literally after every swing, even the one that floored Fury in the 12th, he was zapped.
Shut up and listen, or read, next time.
Muscle uses ATP which is replaced by the ATP cycle, more muscle, more used, faster fatigue. As the Krebs cycle can’t turn ADP back into ATP for more energy fast enough. Never seen a muscle bound marathon runner have you?
For a heavy weight, Wilder was too small and lacked muscle stamina. His muscles could not take him up a hill. He needed to be STRONGER, not leaner in that fight.
He made Fury look like a marathon runner. Which it should not be.
Thin does not mean strong or healthy. But you should know this, trainer!
He obviously knows a bit more than you do, you probably teach pilates for old folks at a local rec centre. It’s clear as day that the fight had everything to do with wilders technique and nothing to do with weight or the condition he was in.
I never said his technique was not a problem as well. Dolt. lol... (And actually, I am learning yoga but NOT pilates)Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pking
With that being said: Wilder was not in shape for this fight. He lost too much muscle mass and could not compete consistently in the exchanges. Fury, even a tad bit soft, could have because he was not weak as a kitten. That's why he got up too!
I bow to you guys (well two of you anyway) superior knowledge on muscles and how they work.
But for me, and what generally gets overlooked, is the mental side of the game. Fury burned Wilder up mentally to the point of him not knowing where his success was going to come from. Wilder threw some great punches in the fight, but he also threw some absolutely terrible ones out of desperation, ones that would have been laughed at on the playground. The distance, the timing, the feints, all had Wilder second guessing himself, asking if it's OK to punch now. Fury might not look like much of an athlete, but he is a fighting man and completely at one in the ring doing his thing, mentally fights don't take much of a toll on him. Wilder is not, he's a very gifted athlete no doubt about that, but Fury made him think and he's just not equipped to do that.
Wilder does need to work on his stamina though. He wasn't the one running around the ring and only threw 400 punches. He should not have been gassed and did seem spent after both KD's. He hasn't had a lot of long tough fights. It showed a bit. Maybe this experience will be a good one for him.
Dodged the question though didn’t you, I don’t blame you because it shows that what you are saying is wrong. If you just answer the question...Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaI am a fitness coach, an MMA one at that, sir. Been one for the better half of 10 years. A former fighter, albeit Amateur level boxing and exhibition kickboxing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonAs a trainer my professional opinion is he was right and everything you’ve said is wrong. Perhaps you should shut up and listen, or read next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaSo I guess you have NO CLUE about muscle mass and having better, more responsive twitch fibres in your muscles? Why do guys take PED's then?Quote:
Originally Posted by p4pkingI can’t find anything you wrote that makes any sense. His muscles tired out due to not having enough of them? He should just focus on cardio and weight training? He’s very fit, or he wouldn’t continuously bail himself out in the late rounds. having extra muscle mass would only make his punches even easier to see coming, and he was never going to be a guy who grinds someone down on the inside. It might well be too late entirely, but what he should have been focusing on exclusively for years is actually learning to box, to feint himself, use his feet properly, throw straight punches without giving such massive tells on his right hand, etc. His weight had absolutely nothing to do with that fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
The man took off too much weight along with muscle mass- Like how Stiverne came in against Wilder the first time and get got zapped by the 5th round.
Wilder was too light to land hard punches all night- Literally after every swing, even the one that floored Fury in the 12th, he was zapped.
Shut up and listen, or read, next time.
Muscle uses ATP which is replaced by the ATP cycle, more muscle, more used, faster fatigue. As the Krebs cycle can’t turn ADP back into ATP for more energy fast enough. Never seen a muscle bound marathon runner have you?
For a heavy weight, Wilder was too small and lacked muscle stamina. His muscles could not take him up a hill. He needed to be STRONGER, not leaner in that fight.
He made Fury look like a marathon runner. Which it should not be.
Thin does not mean strong or healthy. But you should know this, trainer!
Edit-for the record I agree he came in too light. Just not the details around that statement. He lost the fight because Tyson fought a better fight, had Deontay befuddled, overreacting, and over shooting.
You're thinking about this purely as a physical pursuit, it isn't. Physically Wilder was capable of nearly decapitating a 19 stone bloke in the 12th round. Look at Wilder's behaviour when he knocked Fury down and seemingly out in the 12th. It's over, I can do my goofy dance across the ring with a spring in my step and a smile on my face, I'm good. Oh no he's up, I'm therefor fucked again. Emotionally drained. Look at Joshua against Wlad or Whyte, or David Price Versus anyone that's twatted him out (Povetkin aside). Joshua is as fit as a fiddle, yet against Wlad and Whyte he hit crisis. Not because he hadn't put enough time in on the spin bike or in the sand pit, but because mentally he couldn't cope with the picture that was being painted around him. This guy is fighting back, what now? I thought I had this guy beat, he's getting up, what now? The Povetkin fight for both Joshua and Price was an interesting one. Price, who'd burned up many times before, all of a sudden managed to dump his baggage at the gate, and just come and fight, weirdly against the best opponent he's ever faced and by rights the one time he should have been royally shitting himself. Instead he makes a good fight of it before getting nailed. Joshua too seemed to be at one with himself in the Povetkin fight, at ease with the prospect of losing a few early rounds when Povetkin was lively, all the while implementing his game plan which worked a treat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
These problems people speak of cant be fixed with a bit more cardio, it has to come from upstairs. Wilder has had plenty of bruising fights, long physically demanding fights and he's come through. But there's no real thought process involved, we're fighting, it's physical, that's the game. Fury offered him a completely different aspect and whilst not as physically demanding as some of his other fights, the psychological toll was huge and it manifests itself in the physical form, it almost always does.
Allow me to simplify, Wilder cannot box for shit, Fury can. Its called the noble art.
Fantastic postQuote:
Originally Posted by MemphisYou're thinking about this purely as a physical pursuit, it isn't. Physically Wilder was capable of nearly decapitating a 19 stone bloke in the 12th round. Look at Wilder's behaviour when he knocked Fury down and seemingly out in the 12th. It's over, I can do my goofy dance across the ring with a spring in my step and a smile on my face, I'm good. Oh no he's up, I'm therefor fucked again. Emotionally drained. Look at Joshua against Wlad or Whyte, or David Price Versus anyone that's twatted him out (Povetkin aside). Joshua is as fit as a fiddle, yet against Wlad and Whyte he hit crisis. Not because he hadn't put enough time in on the spin bike or in the sand pit, but because mentally he couldn't cope with the picture that was being painted around him. This guy is fighting back, what now? I thought I had this guy beat, he's getting up, what now? The Povetkin fight for both Joshua and Price was an interesting one. Price, who'd burned up many times before, all of a sudden managed to dump his baggage at the gate, and just come and fight, weirdly against the best opponent he's ever faced and by rights the one time he should have been royally shitting himself. Instead he makes a good fight of it before getting nailed. Joshua too seemed to be at one with himself in the Povetkin fight, at ease with the prospect of losing a few early rounds when Povetkin was lively, all the while implementing his game plan which worked a treat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandalf
These problems people speak of cant be fixed with a bit more cardio, it has to come from upstairs. Wilder has had plenty of bruising fights, long physically demanding fights and he's come through. But there's no real thought process involved, we're fighting, it's physical, that's the game. Fury offered him a completely different aspect and whilst not as physically demanding as some of his other fights, the psychological toll was huge and it manifests itself in the physical form, it almost always does.
Fury was the better boxer and fighter. But Wilder did not have it physically and it showed- both in technique and physicality.