Fights "won" BEFORE the fight

This may have been done before, but...

There would appear to be several ways a fighter can accumulate so many advantages before the actual fight, that he's got the proverbial deck stacked in his favor even before the opening bell.


1. Head games - What fights have occurred where one fighter has gotten so much into the other guy's head that it totally wins the first guy the fight. (One maddening example to me would be Fury-Wlad. Another was Mike Tyson vs Seldon, although you could probably put several Iron Mike fights here. I think Ricardo Mayorga tried real hard to use head games, but most of the time they didn't work out.)

2. Weight games - What fights have occurred where one fighter has totally drained the other fighter to the extent that the other guy comes in at less than 100%. Also, what fights have occurred where, despite the weigh-in attempts at a level playing field, one fighter enters the ring a full 20-30 pounds heavier than the other.... definitely not the intent of weigh-ins. Either that, or the guy shrunk himself, legally or not, to make weight and then ballooned by 20-30 pounds himself.

3. Judges games - What fights have occurred at a location or with appointed judges where it's practically guaranteed that fighter "X" will win, barring a knockout loss.

4. PED games - What fights have occurred where PEDs have pretty much decided the outcome of a fight, or at least made it 10 times more likely.

5. Rules games - My choice of ring size.... my choice of gloves... etc, etc. Any famous fights where this was a factor?


What other ways are there that fighters have sought an advantage before the fight that couldn't be overcome.

Head games – Hopkins v Tito regarding the gloves,

Weight games – Canelo v Floyd that pound made a difference?

Judges games – Canelo v anyone he fought near his adopted hometown.

PED games – Most Manny Pac fights?

Rules games – Oscar v Floyd when he had all the choices including weight, gloves but did not work and lost

Leonard v Hagler when he gave everything else away but wanted 12 rounds and won

Ward vs Kovalev I

It was decided before the fight that the 3 American judges were not going to permit a Russian-born boxer to win a decision over an American boxer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoH_X1n9z4g

Good examples ;D

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Originally Posted by Master

Head games – Hopkins v Tito regarding the gloves, Good one. I've always thought Hopkins definitely got inside Tito's head.

Weight games – Canelo v Floyd that pound made a difference? Both Canelo and JCC Jr. have been notorious for using weight games to their advantage.

Judges games – Canelo v anyone he fought near his adopted hometown. Yes.... Canelo's the king at judges and venues games.

PED games – Most Manny Pac fights? I like Manny, but it's hard not to suspect, what with all the weight divisions Manny successfully jumped.

Rules games – Oscar v Floyd when he had all the choices including weight, gloves but did not work and lost Yeah. This is usually the territory of prima donnas. They demand and demand and demand. That "A side" bullsh*t.

Leonard v Hagler when he gave everything else away but wanted 12 rounds and won That one fight has always been a mystery to me.

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I bet there are 2 things Hagler regrets in that fight with Leonard, fighting orthodox in the first few rounds and not having those extra 3 rounds to beat Ray up.

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Originally Posted by Master

I bet there are 2 things Hagler regrets in that fight with Leonard, fighting orthodox in the first few rounds and not having those extra 3 rounds to beat Ray up.

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BTW if Douglas v Tyson went to points, Tyson would have got the decision.

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Originally Posted by Master

I bet there are 2 things Hagler regrets in that fight with Leonard, fighting orthodox in the first few rounds and not having those extra 3 rounds to beat Ray up.

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I would add a third one. Not pressing Leonard from the opening bell and trying to be too "cute." The Hagler that destroyed Hearns would've probably beaten Leonard.

Of course Tyson vs Spinks... Just on pure FEAR!

Spinks had no business in the ring... lololol....

Holmes vs Tyson. In Larry's biography stated, it was the only fight where he wanted to call it off; while in the dressing room. But also said King lured him into the fight by offering millions.

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Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Holmes vs Tyson. In Larry's biography stated, it was the only fight where he wanted to call it off; while in the dressing room. But also said King lured him into the fight by offering millions.

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I can believe that. Holmes was humiliated in that fight but I am sure he could have done a lot better in that fight.

Cassius Clay's mental demolition of Sonny Liston was truly amazing.

Most of Joe Louis' title defences were won before the first bell rang, as were most of Mike Tysons defences.

Floyd and Canelo stacked the odds in their favour beforehand, but that's not quite the same

The Mob fix was really in during the 1950's, but we won't ever know the true extent of that!

Duran V Leonard 1 : Leonard at the referee instructions is looking down and sideways and has a look that says "what the hell am i doing here in the ring with this mad man"? Duran isn't sweating, he's intense and is totally focused on a worried Leonard! Leonard is trying to remain calm, but he knows all hell is about to break loose and it did! This was the last time we saw Roberto Duran at his absolute frightening peak!

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Duran V Leonard 1 : Leonard at the referee instructions is looking down, sideways and has a look that says "what the hell am i doing here in the ring with his mad man"? Duran isn't sweating, he's intense and is totally focused on a worried Leonard! Leonard is trying to remain calm, but he knows all hell is about to break loose and it did! This was the last time we saw Roberto Duran at his absolute frightening peak!

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Good one. And credit to Leonard for making a good fight out of it. But he was clearly..... awed, shall we say..... by Duran prior to the fight.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

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Originally Posted by THE THIRD MAN

Duran V Leonard 1 : Leonard at the referee instructions is looking down, sideways and has a look that says "what the hell am i doing here in the ring with his mad man"? Duran isn't sweating, he's intense and is totally focused on a worried Leonard! Leonard is trying to remain calm, but he knows all hell is about to break loose and it did! This was the last time we saw Roberto Duran at his absolute frightening peak!

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Good one. And credit to Leonard for making a good fight out of it. But he was clearly..... awed, shall we say..... by Duran prior to the fight.

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All credit to Leonard too, he was also at his peak and fought well and matched it with Duran who was a fighter possessed that night! Leonard learned an invaluable lesson.

Everyone knew that Douglas would lose to Holyfield when they saw what he weighed before their fight.

Tyson V Bruno 2 - Bruno virtually wet himself on the way to the ring & he just did not want to be there.

Holyfield V Tyson 2 - Tyson is a student of the game & no-one knows other fighters better than him & he knew deep down that he could not beat Holyfield, hence what transpired subsequently.

Mayweather v Marquez was pretty absurd. As was Canelo v Khan, we all knew 'what' we just didn't know the 'when'. I remember Camacho, RIP, trying to yuk it up before he got in with Chavez but quickly found the left hook to the body of Chavez becoming a permanent part of his anatomy. Camacho always had tons of charisma and he took a pounding that night. Chavez right up there with guys like Tyson early on in terms of sheer intimidation and having this cold quite malice about him. Big round of applause for the head games that backfired, Haye v Wlad. Silly dude even made t shirts ;D.

Camacho took a beating from Oscar, so fighters that are past their prime is another category.

Tyson v Lewis was inevitable.

Khan v Alvarez and Crawford

Larry Holmes vs Muhammad Ali
Ali’s medical pre-Holmes fight reported:
- A small hole/perforation in the brain
- Issues completing hand-to-nose test
- Tingling in his hands
- Slurred speech, memory issues
He was licensed & fought
Source: The Life and Crimes of Don King: The Shame of Boxing in America

I think everyone involved in that fight actually "lost"... including Holmes. He couldn't turn down the money and decided to beat up on an old man.

I recently saw the 2009 documentary "Facing Ali", and there are some sad video clips of this fight, as well as his needless two fights against Leon Spinks BEFORE fighting Holmes.

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Originally Posted by TitoFan

I think everyone involved in that fight actually "lost"... including Holmes. He couldn't turn down the money and decided to beat up on an old man.

I recently saw the 2009 documentary "Facing Ali", and there are some sad video clips of this fight, as well as his needless two fights against Leon Spinks BEFORE fighting Holmes.

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I am glad Ali avenged his loss against Leon Spinks.

Worse than that -- why oh why the absolute F&^% did Ali then wait ANOTHER YEAR and then decide to do The Drama in The Bahamas? I recently watched that painful fight to watch, and holy hell did Berbick put a beating on Ali's head & body in that fight. It is horrific to watch and Berbick unlike Holmes did not pull any punches, he let him have it almost as if to say 'hey old man, f&^% you I dont care who you are/used to be, I'm gonna smash you". It is sickening but it is part of the sport and nobody forced Muhammad to do such a thing. YOU WOULD REALLY THINK WOULD YOU NOT that after getting thrashed by Larry Holmes that he would NEVER get in the ring again. Why did he fight Trevor??????

Ali just could not say no. Just shows you how durable Ali was that a young hungry contender could not stop him.

In retrospect, WHEN should have Ali retired?

IMO, and with the benefit of hindsight... it should've been after Shavers.

Ali had fought "The Thrilla in Manila" two years prior to Shavers. Then he fought Ken Norton a THIRD time. Then came the murderous puncher Ernie Shavers.

Ali should've retired right then and there. WTF did he need to fight Spinks for?? Spinks was a relative nobody. Ali at even 80% of his peak self would've wiped the floor with Spinks. But he lost. Then he avenged the loss.

Then the spent shell of Ali fought Holmes in 1980, and Trevor Berbick in 1981. Stupid fights... both of them.

Holmes was a greedy bastard who was paid blood money to beat the crap out of an already sick old man.

Berbick added insult to injury.

Shame on both of these dudes! As well as the organizations that allowed the fights.

I find his best years to be from 1964 to 1967. Amazing how well he fought on March 8, 1971. He was IMO already just 85% of the boxer who fought Liston 6-7 years earlier. Understandably.

So I feel after ANOTHER loss (Norton 1), it is beyond amazing he whipped Foreman THREE AND A HALF YEARS after the first Frazier fight. I can then see him avenging Frazier and Norton but that should have been it. So I'd say he shoulda hung the gloves up after beating Norton and Joe in the rematches. No rubber matches, tho we'd've then missed The Thrilla.

The Foreman fight would have been a crowning moment to go out on
At the very least The Thriller in Manila. Neither boxer should have fought again after that fight

1. Head Games: Some of my favorite examples of this are Liston vs Patterson (Floyd had a disguise in his bag to wear while leaving the building after the fight), Foreman vs everyone pre-Ali, Tyson vs Spinks, Riddick Bowe vs Larry Donald, and Steve Collins vs Chris Eubank (Eubank was rattled by Collins’ claim of hypnosis use).

2. Weight Games: Andre Ward vs Chad Dawson, Oscar vs Arturo Gatti, Gatti vs Joey Gamache, G-Man vs middleweights, and Ray Leonard vs Donny Lalond (won belts in two weights for one fight).

3. Judges Games: I feel like every boxing “cash cow” gets favor from judges so Canelo, Oscar, Ray Leonard, JCC…etc, all have some questionable wins. The interesting exception to me is Manny- he actually had some blatant robberies vs Tim Bradley and Jeff Horn while he was a cash cow.

4. Rules Games: Adding to the Hagler v Leonard regrets- DEFINITELY a mistake to allow Ray to get the bigger ring. Taking a different spin- prime BHOP was the master at using the rules to his advantage by fouling while the ref was out of position. I loved his tactic of using his left hand to position his opponents body between himself and the ref and then hitting low before maneuvering the opponent out of the way so the ref could clearly see the retaliatory low blow from the opponent.

I think with Hagler v Leonard, Ray wanted 12 rounds not 15.

Ray conceded everything else including ring size just so he could have 12 rounds. It worked in his favour as the last 3 rounds probably would have been decisive for Hagler to win.

Hagler fighting orthodox for the first few rounds did not work either. He knew Ray had been practicing for a southpaw all year round.