marciano doesnt belongin the same breath as ali

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

WELL I WOULDNT GO THAT FAR BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT ONE DOESNT COMPARE TO THE OTHER. ALI WOULD GIVE MARCIANO THE BEATING OF HIS LIFE. ALI FOUGHT WITH SKILL AND SPEED HENCE "THE GREATEST" MARCIANO FOUGHT ON PURE GRIT, POWER AND HEART. NO LEGIT SKILL OR SPEED. BUT YOU CANT LOOK DOWN ON HIM FOR THE PEOPLE HE FOUGHT. THERE WAS NOONE ELSE AROUND. THE HWD WAS AS DEVOID OF TALENTED FIGHTERS AS IT IS RIGHT NOW... AND REMEMBER. THAT LOSLESS RECORD LOOKS GREAT ON A RESUME.

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Originally Posted by 71HOOKS

WELL I WOULDNT GO THAT FAR BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT ONE DOESNT COMPARE TO THE OTHER. ALI WOULD GIVE MARCIANO THE BEATING OF HIS LIFE. ALI FOUGHT WITH SKILL AND SPEED HENCE "THE GREATEST" MARCIANO FOUGHT ON PURE GRIT, POWER AND HEART. NO LEGIT SKILL OR SPEED. BUT YOU CANT LOOK DOWN ON HIM FOR THE PEOPLE HE FOUGHT. THERE WAS NOONE ELSE AROUND. THE HWD WAS AS DEVOID OF TALENTED FIGHTERS AS IT IS RIGHT NOW... AND REMEMBER. THAT LOSLESS RECORD LOOKS GREAT ON A RESUME.

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thats fine but lets not make him out to be more than what he was----a pug who was lucky ebnough to be around when the division really stunk

THATS VALID. I CAN LIVE WITH THAT.

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

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well ernie terrel, chuvalo, cooper, jimmy young, ellis, folley, joe bugner and chuck wepner weren't exactly world beaters either.....

CHUCK WEPNER...HA... GUY HAD HEART, THOUGH. ALI TURNED "THE BEYONE BLEEDER'S" FACE TO HAMBURGER. REMEMBER WHEN HE KNOCKED ALI DOWN AND HE TURNED AROUND LIKE HE WON THE FIGHT. IT WAS LAUGHABLE. THEN HE PROCEEDED TO EAT PUNCH AFTER PUNCH... ALI WAS NOT HAPPY. FUNNY THOUGH.

Yeah, your right.. But I dont think many people would disagree with you. Ali was just miles ahead of Rocky in every aspect, including who he fought.

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Originally Posted by p4pking

Yeah, your right.. But I dont think many people would disagree with you. Ali was just miles ahead of Rocky in every aspect, including who he fought.

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i still think people tend to overate Ali's opposition in the 60's though....It was only through the seventies where Ali showed his true self in the ring.

THERE SHOULDNT EVEN BE A ?.. I MEAN, I LOVE MARCIANO... HE WAS JUST A GRITTY PUNCHER WHO COULD TAKE PUNISHMENT. ALI PRETTYMUCH REINVENTED THE SPORT AT THE TIME. A HEAVYWEIGHT WITH THAT KIND OF RING PRESENCE AND SPEED. NOT JUST A HOUSE THAT STANDS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE RING AND DROPS BOMBS. SHOULDNT BE A ?

i ain't disputing anything, Ali imo was the better fighter

AND HE WAS

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Originally Posted by 71HOOKS

WELL I WOULDNT GO THAT FAR BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT ONE DOESNT COMPARE TO THE OTHER. ALI WOULD GIVE MARCIANO THE BEATING OF HIS LIFE. ALI FOUGHT WITH SKILL AND SPEED HENCE "THE GREATEST" MARCIANO FOUGHT ON PURE GRIT, POWER AND HEART. NO LEGIT SKILL OR SPEED. BUT YOU CANT LOOK DOWN ON HIM FOR THE PEOPLE HE FOUGHT. THERE WAS NOONE ELSE AROUND. THE HWD WAS AS DEVOID OF TALENTED FIGHTERS AS IT IS RIGHT NOW... AND REMEMBER. THAT LOSLESS RECORD LOOKS GREAT ON A RESUME.

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Just because he says he's the greatest doesn't make it so...that why it's called "self proclaimed"....oh yeah he would kick marciano's ass though....

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Originally Posted by The_One77

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

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well ernie terrel, chuvalo, cooper, jimmy young, ellis, folley, joe bugner and chuck wepner weren't exactly world beaters either.....

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They would have been in Marciano's time.

also didn't Jimmy Young beat Foreman, and should have won the fight with Ali?

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

---

You must note though thatAli got alot of altered judging in his fights... some fights there is no way he won(Ken Norton) and he won on name alone... Also against Henry Cooper he was knocked out, and they had to rip his glove so he would have more time to recuperate. Foreman states that he was drugged during their fight which no1 really knows but with all the other conspiracies behind Ali its plausible.

If you want to have this argument name a fighter that belongs in the same breath as Ali. I am not argueing that Marciano does belong, but he fought at a different time. Ali revolutionized the sport of boxing, there had not been anybody around that came close to him. There certainly have been imposters since, but nobody the same. They are both great fighters, they both were the man to beat of their time, but you can not compare them.

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Originally Posted by JonesJrMayweather

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Originally Posted by 71HOOKS

WELL I WOULDNT GO THAT FAR BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT ONE DOESNT COMPARE TO THE OTHER. ALI WOULD GIVE MARCIANO THE BEATING OF HIS LIFE. ALI FOUGHT WITH SKILL AND SPEED HENCE "THE GREATEST" MARCIANO FOUGHT ON PURE GRIT, POWER AND HEART. NO LEGIT SKILL OR SPEED. BUT YOU CANT LOOK DOWN ON HIM FOR THE PEOPLE HE FOUGHT. THERE WAS NOONE ELSE AROUND. THE HWD WAS AS DEVOID OF TALENTED FIGHTERS AS IT IS RIGHT NOW... AND REMEMBER. THAT LOSLESS RECORD LOOKS GREAT ON A RESUME.

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Just because he says he's the greatest doesn't make it so...that why it's called "self proclaimed"....oh yeah he would kick marciano's a** though....

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IT MAY BE SELF PROCLAIMED BUT THERE IS NO DOUBTING THAT THERE IS EMENSE AMOUNTS OF TRUTH TO THAT.

I think Marciano resembles Joe Frazier. A little less speed, equal power, and at least if not better chin. Granted, his comp. might not have been as good, and Ali would beat him 6 of 10 for sure, maybe more, but You can't discredit Marciano like he was a bum. He would have given Frazier fits, and beat him a few. And we know what Frazier did to Ali.

Ali is better IMO, but to say Marciano was not in the same breath, is a strong statement.

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

---

This shows you know very little about boxing with a statement like this, Marciano was perhaps the best conditioned fighter to ever step into the ring, not to mention freakish strength and punching power for 184ibs, a will and determination to win beyond human capicity and tenacity second to none. Marciano would have needed a shopping cart to push his heart around. And as far as Walcott and Charles being washed up, your crazy, Walcott was champion, Legendary trainer Eddie Futch said Walcott was one of the hardest punchers ever and that he (Walcott) could knock you cold just by hitting you on top of your head. Walcott himself said that Marciano was a much harder puncher then the great Joe Louis. And Marciano ruined Charles in there 2 epic battles, check how Charles career went downhill after the last fight with Marciano. Archie Moore said nobody hit him as hard as Marciano and that the only man that could have beaten Foreman in a SLUGFEST was Marciano. Look at some of the Rock's opponents records after he was finished with them, Roland LaStarza who was considered the next Gene Tunney, was ruined by Marciano, so was Rex Layne. And as far as calling Marciano's opponents bums....check Ali's record.. Brian London, Alfredo Evangalista, Jean Pierre Coopman, Richard Dunn...should I go on? And Ali got some gift decisions also Jimmy Young, Doug Jones, and IMO Norton beat Ali all 3 times , whupped him in their 3rd fight at Yankee Stadium. And alot of his fights were BORING!!!! And according to people who were there when Marciano and Ali taped there superfightback in 68, Ali was on the set talkin S*** as usual, and Angelo Dundee said Maciano said to him "I DON'T LIKE HIM , HE TALKS TO MUCH!! So Dundee says give him a chance. So during filming Ali tries to knock off Marcianos hairpiece, so Marciano stars throwing hard punches at Ali, Ali's blocking the punches on his arms and starts complaining to the people on the set that Marciano hitting him hard, so Dundee says at the end of the day Ali's arms are bruised and sore, so Marciano comes over to Dundee and says, " He's a nice kid, but I would have murdered him when I was fighting. As my father told me "Marciano was tough son of a bitch!!

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

---

You must note though thatAli got alot of altered judging in his fights... some fights there is no way he won(Ken Norton) and he won on name alone... Also against Henry Cooper he was knocked out, and they had to rip his glove so he would have more time to recuperate. Foreman states that he was drugged during their fight which no1 really knows but with all the other conspiracies behind Ali its plausible.

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Foreman was not drugged lol, he just didn't know how to take it...
he sure as hell didn't look drugged neither when he was pounding the hell outta Ali against the ropes

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Originally Posted by atomic bull

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

---

This shows you know very little about boxing with a statement like this, Marciano was perhaps the best conditioned fighter to ever step into the ring, not to mention freakish strength and punching power for 184ibs, a will and determination to win beyond human capicity and tenacity second to none. Marciano would have needed a shopping cart to push his heart around. And as far as Walcott and Charles being washed up, your crazy, Walcott was champion, Legendary trainer Eddie Futch said Walcott was one of the hardest punchers ever and that he (Walcott) could knock you cold just by hitting you on top of your head. Walcott himself said that Marciano was a much harder puncher then the great Joe Louis. And Marciano ruined Charles in there 2 epic battles, check how Charles career went downhill after the last fight with Marciano. Archie Moore said nobody hit him as hard as Marciano and that the only man that could have beaten Foreman in a SLUGFEST was Marciano. Look at some of the Rock's opponents records after he was finished with them, Roland LaStarza who was considered the next Gene Tunney, was ruined by Marciano, so was Rex Layne. And as far as calling Marciano's opponents bums....check Ali's record.. Brian London, Alfredo Evangalista, Jean Pierre Coopman, Richard Dunn...should I go on? And Ali got some gift decisions also Jimmy Young, Doug Jones, and IMO Norton beat Ali all 3 times , whupped him in their 3rd fight at Yankee Stadium. And alot of his fights were BORING!!!! And according to people who were there when Marciano and Ali taped there superfightback in 68, Ali was on the set talkin S*** as usual, and Angelo Dundee said Maciano said to him "I DON'T LIKE HIM , HE TALKS TO MUCH!! So Dundee says give him a chance. So during filming Ali tries to knock off Marcianos hairpiece, so Marciano stars throwing hard punches at Ali, Ali's blocking the punches on his arms and starts complaining to the people on the set that Marciano hitting him hard, so Dundee says at the end of the day Ali's arms are bruised and sore, so Marciano comes over to Dundee and says, " He's a nice kid, but I would have murdered him when I was fighting. As my father told me "Marciano was tough son of a bitch!!

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Cool Click for a great arguement mate, IMO rockys style would of given Ali alot of trouble, and im sick of all the hating he gets.

Marciano would have never gassed like Foreman did, and he was more of a bull than Frazier. Remember, he hit fighters where ever the hell he could. He wouldn't have had to rock his jaw to slow him down.

Exactly Marciano had style, grace, and class...and was unbeaten so yeah he doesn't deserved to be mentioned with Ali

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Exactly Marciano had style, grace, and class...and was unbeaten so yeah he doesn't deserved to be mentioned with Ali

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Good way to look at it mate, i wanted to click ya but as yano karma cannot be repeated etc lol.

grace? maybe the wrong word, raw power and strength in an abundance without a shadow of a doubt. I think he could have been right up there in the top 5 heavy weights of all time including the monsters of todays era.He would look like a toothpick up against some of the fellas like Klitchsko and Lennox Lewis but the power and speed were unquestionable and could take anyone out, and i think he would have given Ali all sorts of trouble as he was very similar in style to Frazier.Against a prime time Foreman who i think looking at old tapes against Norton and Frazier twice was the most formidable heavyweight of all time in any era at this time in his career. He looked untouchable and physically too big for the likes of a Marciano who probably weighed 70 pounds less.In response to the posting i think it a bit disrespectful to Marciano to say he was not in the same class as Ali, i personally think it would have been a great match up.

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Originally Posted by i suck

grace? maybe the wrong word, raw power and strength in an abundance without a shadow of a doubt. I think he could have been right up there in the top 5 heavy weights of all time including the monsters of todays era.He would look like a toothpick up against some of the fellas like Klitchsko and Lennox Lewis but the power and speed were unquestionable and could take anyone out, and i think he would have given Ali all sorts of trouble as he was very similar in style to Frazier.Against a prime time Foreman who i think looking at old tapes against Norton and Frazier twice was the most formidable heavyweight of all time in any era at this time in his career. He looked untouchable and physically too big for the likes of a Marciano who probably weighed 70 pounds less.In response to the posting i think it a bit disrespectful to Marciano to say he was not in the same class as Ali, i personally think it would have been a great match up.

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Coolclick mate, a fair assessment, and faught your corner well.

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

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i agree marciano should have chose to b born in a different era--the fact that marciano chose to be born when he was born--shows he was a coward---he should have chose to be born around the same time as ali---

ALI CHOSE A MUCH BETTER TIME 2B BORN AT!!!!

patterson cant take a punch--marciano woulda ko'd him
wepner so great? marciano woulda ko'd him in 4
chuvalo was the EASIEST target in boxing history--never moves just stands there!
quarry --marciano woulda ko'd in 3
FOLLEY was old and past his prime when when ali beat him--
ALI got 2 gift decisions against young and norton 3



look ali's the greatest---but your post is ignorant----y dont u attack joe louis?? he beat a 37 old man 2 get his title---if ali was holding tha title instead of braddock louis woulda lost and ali woulda never let louis be a champion. but LOUIS WAS IN A VERY WEAK ERA --JUST LIKE MARCIANO--IF YOUR GONNA ATTACK BOXERS ABOUT "HORRIBLE OPPOSITION" INCLUDE LOUIS, TYSON, AND DEMPSEY

SO WHAT U MEANT TO SAY IS ROCKY, JOE ,MIKE AND JACK arent good enough to hold ali's towel oh yeah and throw floyd in there 2, he fought nobodys as well


but u wont cuz your biast

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Originally Posted by atomic bull

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

---

This shows you know very little about boxing with a statement like this, Marciano was perhaps the best conditioned fighter to ever step into the ring, not to mention freakish strength and punching power for 184ibs, a will and determination to win beyond human capicity and tenacity second to none. Marciano would have needed a shopping cart to push his heart around. And as far as Walcott and Charles being washed up, your crazy, Walcott was champion, Legendary trainer Eddie Futch said Walcott was one of the hardest punchers ever and that he (Walcott) could knock you cold just by hitting you on top of your head. Walcott himself said that Marciano was a much harder puncher then the great Joe Louis. And Marciano ruined Charles in there 2 epic battles, check how Charles career went downhill after the last fight with Marciano. Archie Moore said nobody hit him as hard as Marciano and that the only man that could have beaten Foreman in a SLUGFEST was Marciano. Look at some of the Rock's opponents records after he was finished with them, Roland LaStarza who was considered the next Gene Tunney, was ruined by Marciano, so was Rex Layne. And as far as calling Marciano's opponents bums....check Ali's record.. Brian London, Alfredo Evangalista, Jean Pierre Coopman, Richard Dunn...should I go on? And Ali got some gift decisions also Jimmy Young, Doug Jones, and IMO Norton beat Ali all 3 times , whupped him in their 3rd fight at Yankee Stadium. And alot of his fights were BORING!!!! And according to people who were there when Marciano and Ali taped there superfightback in 68, Ali was on the set talkin S*** as usual, and Angelo Dundee said Maciano said to him "I DON'T LIKE HIM , HE TALKS TO MUCH!! So Dundee says give him a chance. So during filming Ali tries to knock off Marcianos hairpiece, so Marciano stars throwing hard punches at Ali, Ali's blocking the punches on his arms and starts complaining to the people on the set that Marciano hitting him hard, so Dundee says at the end of the day Ali's arms are bruised and sore, so Marciano comes over to Dundee and says, " He's a nice kid, but I would have murdered him when I was fighting. As my father told me "Marciano was tough son of a bitch!!

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this is a good post CC---2 many marciano haters out there---marciano could have beaten his opponents with 1 arm and 1 leg and still not get credit

Different times...cannot compare the two....Rocky got out in his prime....Had pressure coming at him from both ends to retire constantly (wife and mother). Hard to keep winning when those close to you oppose everything you're about. Had Rocky had the training of boxers during Ali's time and Ali had the training of Rocky's time, who knows, we may never have heard of either of them or the both could have still ruled their respective era's. Cannot compare the two. There was no rope-a-dope back then. and the gloves were definitely light years behind.

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Originally Posted by atomic bull

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

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This shows you know very little about boxing with a statement like this, Marciano was perhaps the best conditioned fighter to ever step into the ring, not to mention freakish strength and punching power for 184ibs, a will and determination to win beyond human capicity and tenacity second to none. Marciano would have needed a shopping cart to push his heart around. And as far as Walcott and Charles being washed up, your crazy, Walcott was champion, Legendary trainer Eddie Futch said Walcott was one of the hardest punchers ever and that he (Walcott) could knock you cold just by hitting you on top of your head. Walcott himself said that Marciano was a much harder puncher then the great Joe Louis. And Marciano ruined Charles in there 2 epic battles, check how Charles career went downhill after the last fight with Marciano. Archie Moore said nobody hit him as hard as Marciano and that the only man that could have beaten Foreman in a SLUGFEST was Marciano. Look at some of the Rock's opponents records after he was finished with them, Roland LaStarza who was considered the next Gene Tunney, was ruined by Marciano, so was Rex Layne. And as far as calling Marciano's opponents bums....check Ali's record.. Brian London, Alfredo Evangalista, Jean Pierre Coopman, Richard Dunn...should I go on? And Ali got some gift decisions also Jimmy Young, Doug Jones, and IMO Norton beat Ali all 3 times , whupped him in their 3rd fight at Yankee Stadium. And alot of his fights were BORING!!!! And according to people who were there when Marciano and Ali taped there superfightback in 68, Ali was on the set talkin S*** as usual, and Angelo Dundee said Maciano said to him "I DON'T LIKE HIM , HE TALKS TO MUCH!! So Dundee says give him a chance. So during filming Ali tries to knock off Marcianos hairpiece, so Marciano stars throwing hard punches at Ali, Ali's blocking the punches on his arms and starts complaining to the people on the set that Marciano hitting him hard, so Dundee says at the end of the day Ali's arms are bruised and sore, so Marciano comes over to Dundee and says, " He's a nice kid, but I would have murdered him when I was fighting. As my father told me "Marciano was tough son of a bitch!!

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Finally someone with real life accounts...Most people today have no knowledge of the HISTORY of Marciano or Marchegiano for youse that didn't know....Unbelieveable power....

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Originally Posted by bigragu

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Originally Posted by atomic bull

so Dundee says at the end of the day Ali's arms are bruised and sore, so Marciano comes over to Dundee and says, " He's a nice kid, but I would have murdered him when I was fighting. As my father told me "Marciano was tough son of a bitch!!

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Finally someone with real life accounts...Most people today have no knowledge of the HISTORY of Marciano or Marchegiano for youse that didn't know....Unbelieveable power....

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If by "real life accounts" you mean some self-interested thing that Rocky said to Angelo Dundee. . . . Who cares? The guy was a good brawler, and would probably do well in today's division, but it really is ridiculous to act like he's in the same league as Ali, who would have gotten out of the way of almost all of Rocky's slow reckless punches and battered Rocky's face for the bulk of the fight. I don't see it even being close--Rocky had no more than a puncher's chance (and didn't punch nearly as hard as Foreman, so....).

I always get the feeling that people would be way less fan-boy about Rocky if he hadn't been white.

Ali had good skill, a novel fighting style for a heavyweight BUT

1. He was obnoxious and has begot more obnoxious fighters look at James Toney
2. He was all about civil rights yet called people uncle toms at the drop of a hat
3. He was BORING AS ALL HELL!!!

Yall have fun blowing him out of proportion people consider him the greatest only because of 2 things.
1. He wouldn't shut up about it
2. His stance on Vietnam

Joe Louis is the real #1 greatest of all time, Marciano is #2

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

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You must note though thatAli got alot of altered judging in his fights... some fights there is no way he won(Ken Norton) and he won on name alone... Also against Henry Cooper he was knocked out, and they had to rip his glove so he would have more time to recuperate. Foreman states that he was drugged during their fight which no1 really knows but with all the other conspiracies behind Ali its plausible.

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Foreman has retracted his statement about being drugged and has accepted he lost fair and square. He stated more than once that his biggest regret in his boxing career was making up excuses for his loss in the jungle, when he should have admitted there and then that Ali had out-witted him and taken away his heart by not folding under the barrage of punches. Big big respect for George, great man in and out of the ring, fucking legend.

As for Marciano, I've stated before that its difficult to compare fighters of different era's as boxing is an ever evolving sport, and different attributes are required to succed in different era's. Marciano certainly succeeded in his era, he had a solid chin, coupled with an unparalleled determination and heart, so does deserve to be mentioned with the other greats.

If you were to pluck a prime Marciano from his era, and stick him in the ring with Ali, I am confident that Ali would have administered a boxing lesson, with marciano's determination keeping him on his feet til the last bell.
Marciano's one punch power is overrated IMO also. While his punch on walcott was huge, it was a combination of the hayemaker thrown and the fact that Walcott was throwing his face right into it that made it so effective. Many of his other knockouts came from volume punching (with the odd illegal one here and there).
An excellent example is the Cockell fight, who was a limited fat middleweight. Rocky threw dozens and dozens of wild hooks putting everything into them, and nearly every one of them was landing cleanly through Don's non-existent defence, yet he stayed up for some time. I find it very hard to believe that he could have stayed on his feet for so long if he was fighting big hitters from later era's such as Foreman, frazier and Tyson. But this shouldn't take away from rocky's status as he did what he had to do, and came out on top every single time.

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Originally Posted by Bomp

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

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You must note though thatAli got alot of altered judging in his fights... some fights there is no way he won(Ken Norton) and he won on name alone... Also against Henry Cooper he was knocked out, and they had to rip his glove so he would have more time to recuperate. Foreman states that he was drugged during their fight which no1 really knows but with all the other conspiracies behind Ali its plausible.

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Foreman has retracted his statement about being drugged and has accepted he lost fair and square. He stated more than once that his biggest regret in his boxing career was making up excuses for his loss in the jungle, when he should have admitted there and then that Ali had out-witted him and taken away his heart by not folding under the barrage of punches. Big big respect for George, great man in and out of the ring, F****** legend.

As for Marciano, I've stated before that its difficult to compare fighters of different era's as boxing is an ever evolving sport, and different attributes are required to succed in different era's. Marciano certainly succeeded in his era, he had a solid chin, coupled with an unparalleled determination and heart, so does deserve to be mentioned with the other greats.

If you were to pluck a prime Marciano from his era, and stick him in the ring with Ali, I am confident that Ali would have administered a boxing lesson, with marciano's determination keeping him on his feet til the last bell.
Marciano's one punch power is overrated IMO also. While his punch on walcott was huge, it was a combination of the hayemaker thrown and the fact that Walcott was throwing his face right into it that made it so effective. Many of his other knockouts came from volume punching (with the odd illegal one here and there).
An excellent example is the Cockell fight, who was a limited fat middleweight. Rocky threw dozens and dozens of wild hooks putting everything into them, and nearly every one of them was landing cleanly through Don's non-existent defence, yet he stayed up for some time. I find it very hard to believe that he could have stayed on his feet for so long if he was fighting big hitters from later era's such as Foreman, frazier and Tyson. But this shouldn't take away from rocky's status as he did what he had to do, and came out on top every single time.

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His chin was far better then sold. And he had amazing power, maybe only foreman topps him.

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Originally Posted by shza

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Originally Posted by bigragu

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Originally Posted by atomic bull

so Dundee says at the end of the day Ali's arms are bruised and sore, so Marciano comes over to Dundee and says, " He's a nice kid, but I would have murdered him when I was fighting. As my father told me "Marciano was tough son of a bitch!!

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Finally someone with real life accounts...Most people today have no knowledge of the HISTORY of Marciano or Marchegiano for youse that didn't know....Unbelieveable power....

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If by "real life accounts" you mean some self-interested thing that Rocky said to Angelo Dundee. . . . Who cares? The guy was a good brawler, and would probably do well in today's division, but it really is ridiculous to act like he's in the same league as Ali, who would have gotten out of the way of almost all of Rocky's slow reckless punches and battered Rocky's face for the bulk of the fight. I don't see it even being close--Rocky had no more than a puncher's chance (and didn't punch nearly as hard as Foreman, so....).

I always get the feeling that people would be way less fan-boy about Rocky if he hadn't been white.

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u can say that, i have a feeling ali would have a different fanbase if he were white
-u would probably say the same statemant above about ali

Whilst I agree that Ali was clearly a better boxer than Marciano and achieved more in the sport I cannot see how anybody who has actually studied Ali's career could possibly think that Ali would destroy Marciano.

Ali destroyed two great fighters Liston (twice) and Foreman. The former was seemingly in controversial circumstances, I'm not at all convinced on that 'phantom' punch and there was a real cock up between Wallcot and the time keeper in the second fight.

Anyway even crediting Ali fully for those victories, against everybody else he never looked the greatest.

Cooper came so close to beating him, Frazier did once, as did Norton and some say he got him the second time as well. He struggled to get rid of Patterson first time round even though Patterson had a serious back problem. He struggled to get past Chuvalo,Ron Lyle and Jimmy Young, all fighters (with the exception of Young) who were beaten soundly by Foreman and Liston.

On the basis of that how could anyone seriously suggest he would blow Marciano (one of the toughest, most tenacious champions ever) away?

Marciano would have one hell of a chance against Ali. Ali wasn't strong enough to get rid of fighters like Frazier, Chuvalo and Norton and he wouldnt have the strength to blow Marciano away either. 50/50 fight in my opinion.

However, Marciano would not have fared well against Lennox Lewis or Foreman, (maybe Liston) in my opinion because his size would be too much of a disadvantage.

I'll let ya know when Ali or Rocky belong in the same breath as Roy Jones :)

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Originally Posted by Lyle

Ali had good skill, a novel fighting style for a heavyweight BUT

1. He was obnoxious and has begot more obnoxious fighters look at James Toney
2. He was all about civil rights yet called people uncle toms at the drop of a hat
3. He was BORING AS ALL HELL!!!

Yall have fun blowing him out of proportion people consider him the greatest only because of 2 things.
1. He wouldn't shut up about it
2. His stance on Vietnam

Joe Louis is the real #1 greatest of all time, Marciano is #2

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What about his boxing skills and performances?? You criticise the man but I think he should be measured on his boxing.

He shaped boxing as we know it, through not only hype but backing it up in the ring.

Marciano was tough had a lot of heart, but he is definitely not number 2 g.o.a.t. He didn't have a long enough reign as champ (a similar length of time to Tyson) and his opponents, although good were not at their peak, Moore, Louis etc. He should be respected for being unbeaten but this shouldn't automatically give him such a high rating. On that basis Valuev could very shortly be rated as an ATG. ;)

Joe Louis dominated the weakest Heavyweight era . Marciano dominated the second weakest. Ali is the best ;)

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Originally Posted by Bomp

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Originally Posted by Taeth

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Originally Posted by LawHoops

all he did after missing 3years of his physical prime was come back and beat joe frazier and ken norton two out of three (the loss to norton he fought the majority of the fight with a busted grille), knocked george foreman out when george was in his prime and seemingly indestructible (that was after ali had already lost to frazier and norton and was thought to be thru)

he also had wins over quality guys like floyd patterson (twice), jerry quarry (twice), cleveland williams, ernie terrell, oscar bonavena, george chuvalo, ron lyle, henry cooper (twice overall--once pre liston, once post liston), jimmy ellis, zora folley, buster mathis, joe bugner (twice), chuck wepner, and jimmy young (who ended foremans first career with a legit win over him remember).

oh yeah and rocky marciano beat --in his absolute prime mind you ---thouroghly washed up versions of joe louis, ezzard charles, and joe walcott---oh and dont forget thoise world beaters donny cockell and roland lastarza---two househole names

marciano wasnt good enough to be ali's towel boy............

---

You must note though thatAli got alot of altered judging in his fights... some fights there is no way he won(Ken Norton) and he won on name alone... Also against Henry Cooper he was knocked out, and they had to rip his glove so he would have more time to recuperate. Foreman states that he was drugged during their fight which no1 really knows but with all the other conspiracies behind Ali its plausible.

---

Foreman has retracted his statement about being drugged and has accepted he lost fair and square. He stated more than once that his biggest regret in his boxing career was making up excuses for his loss in the jungle, when he should have admitted there and then that Ali had out-witted him and taken away his heart by not folding under the barrage of punches. Big big respect for George, great man in and out of the ring, F****** legend.

As for Marciano, I've stated before that its difficult to compare fighters of different era's as boxing is an ever evolving sport, and different attributes are required to succed in different era's. Marciano certainly succeeded in his era, he had a solid chin, coupled with an unparalleled determination and heart, so does deserve to be mentioned with the other greats.

If you were to pluck a prime Marciano from his era, and stick him in the ring with Ali, I am confident that Ali would have administered a boxing lesson, with marciano's determination keeping him on his feet til the last bell.
Marciano's one punch power is overrated IMO also. While his punch on walcott was huge, it was a combination of the hayemaker thrown and the fact that Walcott was throwing his face right into it that made it so effective. Many of his other knockouts came from volume punching (with the odd illegal one here and there).
An excellent example is the Cockell fight, who was a limited fat middleweight. Rocky threw dozens and dozens of wild hooks putting everything into them, and nearly every one of them was landing cleanly through Don's non-existent defence, yet he stayed up for some time. I find it very hard to believe that he could have stayed on his feet for so long if he was fighting big hitters from later era's such as Foreman, frazier and Tyson. But this shouldn't take away from rocky's status as he did what he had to do, and came out on top every single time.

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always very difficult comparing eras in any sport. whose to say marciano might not have worn ali down? im not saying he would but you cant say ali would annihilate marciano because its never happened