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Wow... what a battle. Gone are the days when true champions would travel anywhere to either win or defend their titles. Now it's just a giant pissing contest as to where this long awaited rematch will finally be held. Just read something about Saudi Arabia being in the running. Joshua of course wants the UK. Ruiz says Mexico. So where will the rematch finally occur?
I think as champion Ruiz should have the fight wherever he wants it to be. Mexico is a bit unusual, but anywhere in the US sounds reasonable. I wouldn't take a fight in the UK knowing the history of early stoppages and Barrera/Khan style fights. Fight somewhere neutral and keep it fair. Joshua as champ chose the venue, so be a gentleman and oblige Ruiz in return.
Well said Miles. But here's something else that hasn't been said yet and I feel bears mentioning.
Prior to venturing out to MSG, Joshua had fought exclusively in the UK. First time he leaves the friendly confines of home and he gets splattered by Ruiz.
Does Joshua want to be known simply as a former champion who only time he peeked out from home gets blasted and then proceeds to turn down all offers to fight abroad?
I would hope not.
Exactly, if you are confident then go and do a number on the stand in who nobody gave a chance on his own territory. Joshua is talking tough, so why the need to stay home? Go to the Champion and beat him up. Ruiz is the man and Joshua does not call the shots now.
I voted Las Vegas, but really any US venue sounds fair and New York perhaps a nicer compromise for any traveling Brits. However, I am sure Las Vegas is a lot more fair to Mexicans.
It will be in a neutral location like Cardiff. :)
So sad, so true. Few dare to become a road warrior.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
I look at it like this.
If you are the heavyweight champion of the WORLD, that means you are the champion of everywhere.
When Joshua was the titleholder .... he was already heavyweight champion of the US and also Mexico (and even Azerbaijan).
Manoevering for home advantage by either guy is just unseemly.
When Ali fought Juergen Blin in Germany, he was heavyweight champion of Germany. When Tyson fought Tony Tubbs in Tokyo he was heavyweight champion of Japan.
Very true. Boxing history would be a whole lot different if greats like Floyd and Roy and Oscar and Leonard and Hopkins etc were forced on the road. Home advantage is clearly a huge factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeSo sad, so true. Few dare to become a road warrior.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Fighters like Winky and Froch and Martinez and Golovkin don't get the credit they deserve for fighting all over the world.
What was different in those days to this? Tyson-Tubbs was in Tokyo because they (Don King) was paid absolute fortunes to have the fight there (it was to promote the opening of the Tokyo Dome).Quote:
Originally Posted by X
I don't know about Ali's day, but why did he defend his title in the European champions country if it wasn't for the payday?
Both Tubbs and Blin were labeled "bums" by the boxing press.
Yes, but the point I'm making is that they defended their world titles in countries other than their own one .... because they were WORLD champs and thought of themselves as such
There's ALOT of talk this might happen in Saudi Arabia ££££$$$$
Hope not as the atmosphere Will be like a morgue!
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxin...thony-18861608
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterVery true. Boxing history would be a whole lot different if greats like Floyd and Roy and Oscar and Leonard and Hopkins etc were forced on the road. Home advantage is clearly a huge factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeSo sad, so true. Few dare to become a road warrior.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Fighters like Winky and Froch and Martinez and Golovkin don't get the credit they deserve for fighting all over the world.
Someday you will get that careers aren’t about race or country, they’re about opponents. Of course that means changing your entire MO but it’s so painfully obvious that eventually you’ll get it.
Do I have permission to reply? (honestly, dude, I don't want to upset you)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron SwansonQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterVery true. Boxing history would be a whole lot different if greats like Floyd and Roy and Oscar and Leonard and Hopkins etc were forced on the road. Home advantage is clearly a huge factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimTraeSo sad, so true. Few dare to become a road warrior.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Fighters like Winky and Froch and Martinez and Golovkin don't get the credit they deserve for fighting all over the world.
Someday you will get that careers aren’t about race or country, they’re about opponents. Of course that means changing your entire MO but it’s so painfully obvious that eventually you’ll get it.
We can say where we want it to be, where we think it will be, but ultimately whether we like it or not, the rematch will be where Eddie says it’ll be.
They made the contract with the clauses and Ruiz signed it.
Yep, we can cry that’s it’s not fair and all that, but it is what it is.
As long as a champion is meeting nearly all top challenges and unifying I can't knock a guy for not traveling for the sake of traveling. Roy should have traveled or at least attempted Benn or Michalczewski. But he was spoiled a bit on a HBO contract that gave green lights to 101 random mandatories. Hopkins had it locked down at 160 with top 10 basically all American. Who was he supposed to chase McCracken? Times are different now, the sport and media exposure has exploded Globally. Shoot he went to Ecuador for a strap and had one of the toughest wars of his early career thanks largely to massive elevation and cutting corners :-X. Grabbed his 'real' 175 up in ol Canada. Twice if you count the bs "draw" call. Have to remember also that the U.S isn't tiny, there are massive historical rivalries East to West coast where some Cities and venues are arguably hostile and foreign enough ;D. Ruiz holds the belts, Joshua wants them back. I still think the longer it's haggard the stripping starts. Do think Andy and Joshua may be cutting off their noses to spite their faces if they stay so grounded on Mexico or U.K rather than anywhere U.S.A. I get it money talks but fans travel too.
To each his own I guess. Say what you will about Wlad (I was never a fan), but the guy did travel quite a bit. Fought a lot in Germany yes.... but also did plenty of time in the States, and would fight anywhere it seems. Contrast this with Joshua, who has fought exclusively in the UK save for that one time he ventured out to MSG and got his ass handed to him. At least from here it looks like the kid who beckons to the bully from behind his parents' skirts. To those who say home advantage is not a factor I say good for you. I think it definitely plays a role. If you're a real champ you go anywhere and get it.
Spicoli - the all-time-great, B-Hop, was knocked down twice and scraped a draw with a man who never got close to the top, before or after (nobody would ever believe Mercado not only beat Hopkins but stopped him). Imagine the stick Golovkin or Canelo would get for Mercado?
The very fact Hopkins dominated the rematch, back home in the USA, which he wouldn't leave again for 20 years, and the "excuses" for Ecuador were all about the "climate," alien conditions and surroundings is a perfect example of exactly why home advantage is so important to fighters.
Imagine if Floyd fought Castillo in Mexico? He'd almost definitely have one loss on his record, probably two. And would never have generated the stardom or money his "0" allowed them to exploit.
Wlad was knocked out in his 25th fight to journeyman Ross Purity, he had 10 more fights before challenging for the WBO title, the few times he fought in America were "off-TV," undercard bouts.
Joshua has had 23 fights and just headlined the biggest heavyweight fight in America for over a decade.
((before you start screaming i'm a "fanboy" and "cocksucker" and have my "head up his arse" i'm merely highlighting the comparison doesn't fit, not that Joshua deserves any special treatment or I even think he's anything special, I don't and never have. Fact.))
The fact that Wlad was knocked out by Puritty (and Sanders.... and Brewster) just strengthens my argument. Thanks.
Immediately after losing to Brewster, his next fight was in the States. From there on out it seems every other fight was in the States. He goes back to being champion and continues fighting in the States.
Comparing number of fights is meaningless. Wlad took a lot longer to fight for a championship, is all. Once he became champion, he fought as much outside Germany as he did in Germany.
He didn't cower in Germany after the first time he got knocked out.
In comparison, Joshua became champion rather quickly, the whole time in the comfort of home. The first time he ventures outside..... BAM!
Now he refuses to leave the UK and wants Ruiz to come to him.
Fact.
Anyway...... back on topic 👍🏻
Saudi Arabia is 2 hours ahead of the UK and 7 hours ahead of New York City.
Midnight in Saudi gives us 5pm USA & 10pm in the UK
That works for me 😎
Quote:
Originally Posted by smashup
Thanks.
BTW, I think you had mentioned something about the crowd. Curiously, I myself have a problem imagining a screaming crowd of fans in a Saudi venue. Neutral, but blah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by smashup
Thanks.
BTW, I think you had mentioned something about the crowd. Curiously, I myself have a problem imagining a screaming crowd of fans in a Saudi venue. Neutral, but blah.
It'll be worse than Tyson v Douglas, no UK fans will go due to the fact there's no chance of fucking any women and a strict no alcohol policy in the entire country.
I morally oppose it. Would prefer the States tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by smashup
AJ's lost a LOAD of muscle, hopefully less of the weights and focusing on speed for the rematch.
He looks like a cruiserweight in this pic.
https://www.worldboxingnews.net/2019...-loss-rematch/
Saudi Arabia just announced.
Joke ffs but this will be the future for the big ones.
Shades of Ali-Foreman in Zaire. Ultimate neutral place if there ever was one. Although Ali and Foreman were both Americans, any venue in the States would've probably leaned one way or the other depending on where the fight was held. So Ali and Foreman went to frigging Zaire to fight. Now Ruiz and Joshua will get it on in Saudi Arabia. At least in Zaire the crowd was excited and acted as such. Still don't know about the excitement level in Saudi Arabia, not exactly a hotbed for sports. ;D
BTW..... I should've made the poll shorter ;D ;D
I see a late vote for Saudi Arabia. :D
They'll be having the world Cup in Qatar next at this rate
TIC has no shame indeed!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
100% it Will, bottomless pit of money that every fighter will want to get a piece of.
Shit for fans great for the fighters.
Imagine a fight arena with no booze; no atmosphere and "ring men" between rounds"
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only disapponted i wasn't the firstQuote:
Originally Posted by palmerqTIC has no shame indeed!Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
But honestly man, why leave for the sake of leaving if a guy is taking care of business and at the very top. As I said who was he to leave for as a multi champion???. AJ wanted to introduce himself to a new market, new fans and expand upon future champs and threats he was already riffing with. Now he doesn't care to return once it went busto. Ah well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
I can't imagine GGG taking too much stick off a disputed rough draw had he gone onto a record title run. Not to mention then moving up in weight, reinventing his style and skill and competing beating some of the best there too. Fans put that into perspective over time. No one pretends Mercado was anymore than his shining night and was also the beneficiary of a missed call or two by the ref :-X. Young Hopkins had a tough obscure fight in a Country that has only 2 title fights in it's history and dominated the championship rounds. Annnd brutalized Mercado if immediate rematch. Then he became legend.
On a side note Saudi Arabia is horrible. All about the bills and bank with that location and there will be many fans who miss it. Much rather across the pond or in the States but this is like pawning out a pristine attraction to someone who has no idea they have before them.
Quito is at a very high altitude, it's more of an oddity. I don't think it's the fairest comparison of how fighters do.. Quito is around 700 meters higher up than the big bear gym. :S
They're purpose building a 12 - 16 thousand outdoor arena for this one andclassing it as an "event" with live acts like David Guerra djing over the weekend.
70% of Saudi Arabia's 45 million population is aged under 24 so you can see exactly who they're aiming this "event" at.
With all this money being thrown at this Sky Sports should have made it free to air which could have brought in viewing figures of 4-5 million easily (probably more).
Hearn saying the crowd will be "Vibrant" and people are "Naive towards Saudi Arabia" is utter bullshit!
The recent Amir Khan fight had fuck all atmosphere throughout the entire event.
Will be an interesting spectacle with amazing production levels but fights in the places like Saudi Arabia will never draw UK fans to fly over.
Where's all this "no atmosphere" stuff coming from? Who was cheering and clapping all through the Khan fight then? And what about the Groves-Smith WBSS final?
Did they use photoshop and fake clapping for the TV? (:D)