Printable View
1. Tyson Fury
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Oleksandr Usyk (but he better do something soon)
4. Dillian Whyte
5. Andy Ruiz Jr
6. Deontay Wilder (his loss was more decisive than Ruiz, who wasn't stopped)
7. Alexander Povetkin
8. Michael Hunter
9. Joseph Parker
10. Daniel Dubois or Filip Hrgovic
If Dubois beats Joyce, he'll be ahead of Hrgovic (who is fighting someone not as good as Joyce).
I'd go
1. Fury
2. Joshua
3. Wilder
4. Whyte
Then whoever you like. No issue with Fury at 1. Now that he's beaten Wilder convincingly twice, he's rightfully top dog and even without AJ coming a cropper against Ruiz he'd still probably be consensus number 1. Joshua or Wilder at 2. Probably most will have Joshua leapfrog Wilder into second. Although I always find it a bit rough on a beaten fighter to plummet down the rankings. Fury Wilder 2 was the right to be top dog among most. Wilder is or should literally be 2nd best. But again I appreciate that the beaten man takes a hit. Of the following pack Whyte has the best claim and the best record. Usyk we all think will wipe the floor with most until he runs into the top three then we'll see what's what. Until then his exploits at Cruiser earn him a spot from 5 - 10 wherever you like.
Fury
Joshua
Wilder
Whyte
Ruiz
A prime Fury has no trouble with any of the other 4 either.
None of the other current crop matter in my opinion
** still undecided re Usyk, he needs to convince he can challenge at this weight.
Fury
Joshua
Wilder
Ruiz
https://media0.giphy.com/media/l1J3Q...&rid=giphy.gif
The Rest
1. Tyson Fury
2. Anthony Joshua
3. Deontay Wilder
4. Dillian Whyte
5. Joseph Parker
6. Alexander Povetkin
7. Andy Ruiz Jr
8. Joe Joyce
9. Daniel Dubois
10. Michael Hunter/Oleksandr Usyk
Fuck me, you put Joyce & Dubois above Hunter & Usyk?Quote:
Originally Posted by Master
Not putting in Ortiz into your lists is ridiculous. Especially when someone like Povetkin is in there along with up and comers who haven’t been tested at all.
This is harder than it looks as it's a cluster.
Fury
Joshua
Whyte
Ruiz Jr
Wilder
HellifIknow
Parker
Ortiz
Povetkin
Hunter
Holyfield
Lewis
Tyson
Bowe
Foreman
Moorer
Mercer
McCall
Ruddock
Cooper
Just having flashbacks ;D
Add to that Kubrat Pulev as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
For a couple of years I considered Anthony Joshua to be the best heavyweight.
But after his masterful performance against Deontay Wilder, I consider Tyson Fury to be #1 and Joshua #2.
just wondering how many of these top ten fighters are still undefeated apart from Tyson
There's at least 10 good, undefeated heavyweights coming up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
The best of them from what I've seen are Hrgovic and Dubois.
Joyce, Romanov, Sanchez, Milas and Yoka are some of the others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreedomThere's at least 10 good, undefeated heavyweights coming up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
The best of them from what I've seen are Hrgovic and Dubois.
Joyce, Romanov, Sanchez, Milas and Yoka are some of the others.
I got my eyes on Tony Yoka. That man stepped up beating Dave allen and Dimitrenko in just 5 pro fights.
Just reading about him. Showing potential but a drugs ban already?
Fury
Joshua
Ruiz
Wilder
Pulev
Whyte
Parker
Usyk
Ortiz
Hunter
Yoka is a pampered Frenchman that is being fluffed to be a media darling like Anthony Joshua was coming out of the Olympics. I am waiting for him to be exposed.Quote:
Originally Posted by KickMuckQuote:
Originally Posted by FreedomThere's at least 10 good, undefeated heavyweights coming up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
The best of them from what I've seen are Hrgovic and Dubois.
Joyce, Romanov, Sanchez, Milas and Yoka are some of the others.
I got my eyes on Tony Yoka. That man stepped up beating Dave allen and Dimitrenko in just 5 pro fights.
yoka did step up quickly, but he has the missed tests hanging over his head, leaves a question markQuote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamajaYoka is a pampered Frenchman that is being fluffed to be a media darling like Anthony Joshua was coming out of the Olympics. I am waiting for him to be exposed.Quote:
Originally Posted by KickMuckQuote:
Originally Posted by FreedomThere's at least 10 good, undefeated heavyweights coming up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark TKO
The best of them from what I've seen are Hrgovic and Dubois.
Joyce, Romanov, Sanchez, Milas and Yoka are some of the others.
I got my eyes on Tony Yoka. That man stepped up beating Dave allen and Dimitrenko in just 5 pro fights.
Povetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.
Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.
1. Fury
2. AJ
3. Whyte
4. Wilder
5. Ruiz
6. Povetkin
7. Hunter
8. Parker
9. Ortiz
10. Rivas
This about now and not their career.Povetkin hasn’t really beaten anyone of note for years and hasn’t looked eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterPovetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.
Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.
Ortiz has never beat anyone of note. That's the point. Hunter is better than anyone Ortiz has faced (barring Wilder, of course). Ortiz lofty status is a bigger smoke and mirrors job than Wilder's 40-0 KO's.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherThis about now and not their career.Povetkin hasn’t really beaten anyone of note for years and hasn’t looked eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterPovetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.
Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterOrtiz has never beat anyone of note. That's the point. Hunter is better than anyone Ortiz has faced (barring Wilder, of course). Ortiz lofty status is a bigger smoke and mirrors job than Wilder's 40-0 KO's.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherThis about now and not their career.Povetkin hasn’t really beaten anyone of note for years and hasn’t looked eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterPovetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.
Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.
Comparing resumes has always been subjective. I'd agree that Povetkin's resume is better than Ortiz's, but not by the huge stretch you imply. Two things though...
Ortiz's resume would've had more big names had he not been pretty much avoided during his prime. Again somewhat subjective, but the generally accepted truth. He's always been viewed as a high-risk, low-reward opponent.
Second... why the lofty status for Hunter? Frankly, if you're going to lift up Hunter while downgrading Jennings (an Ortiz opponent), I'm pretty sure the opposite case could be made.
In fact, if we're comparing resumes, Jennings runs rings around Hunter. Why you have Hunter as your own #7 is puzzling to say the least.
Let’s go back 5 years and compare. I’ll be honest though, the HW division is not good so it’s hard for most anyone to have a good resume in that division.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterOrtiz has never beat anyone of note. That's the point. Hunter is better than anyone Ortiz has faced (barring Wilder, of course). Ortiz lofty status is a bigger smoke and mirrors job than Wilder's 40-0 KO's.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherThis about now and not their career.Povetkin hasn’t really beaten anyone of note for years and hasn’t looked eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterPovetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.
Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.
The names of note that Ortiz has beaten I would say are Jennings, Thompson, Scott, Kaufman, Hammer. Again, I realize that this isn’t saying much. These fighters overall aren’t that good. Jennings is probably his best win since he had just given Wlad some trouble in their previous fight.
Povetkin has beaten since then Perez, Wach, Duahapas, Price, Hammer, and Fury (Hughie obviously). Again, not really great competition. I think that Perez is probably the best win out of those.
I would say it’s pretty even on resume on who they have beaten. Both lost to the top fighters in the division while Povetkin had a draw with Hunter who I don’t necessarily rate that highly. I think that Ortiz has also much more easily beaten his competition too. Even with Wilder, he was winning both fights until the knockout.
With all of that said, ratings usually qualify within the last fight or two or maybe even a year or two. If you look at the last few fights, Ortiz would seem to have the upper hand. Povetkin has shown that he can get outboxed. Ortiz hasn’t shown that. He has shown that he could get knocked out which Povetkin has also shown.
My main point at the beginning though was that pushing Ortiz out of the top 10 Because of two losses to Wilder seems ridiculous since he has proven to be a good boxer and has at least proven himself to be able to beat some of the upper echelon of HWs while other up and coming fighters have not.
I thought Hunter beat Povetkin. Add in Kiladze, Bakole, Ustinov and Kuzmin and it's not a bad run so far since moving up from Cruiser.Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterOrtiz has never beat anyone of note. That's the point. Hunter is better than anyone Ortiz has faced (barring Wilder, of course). Ortiz lofty status is a bigger smoke and mirrors job than Wilder's 40-0 KO's.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncherThis about now and not their career.Povetkin hasn’t really beaten anyone of note for years and hasn’t looked eitherQuote:
Originally Posted by FensterPovetkin has a million times better resume than Ortiz.Quote:
Originally Posted by powerpuncher
Ortiz best win = Jennings? Thompson? Hammer? Best he faced = Wilder.
Povetkin best win = Byrd? Chagaev? Huck? Chambers? Takam? Perez? Hunter? Best he faced = Wlad and AJ.
Comparing resumes has always been subjective. I'd agree that Povetkin's resume is better than Ortiz's, but not by the huge stretch you imply. Two things though...
Ortiz's resume would've had more big names had he not been pretty much avoided during his prime. Again somewhat subjective, but the generally accepted truth. He's always been viewed as a high-risk, low-reward opponent.
Second... why the lofty status for Hunter? Frankly, if you're going to lift up Hunter while downgrading Jennings (an Ortiz opponent), I'm pretty sure the opposite case could be made.
In fact, if we're comparing resumes, Jennings runs rings around Hunter. Why you have Hunter as your own #7 is puzzling to say the least.
Hunter's draw with Povetkin is stronger form than anything Ortiz has done. He's in his prime, just held his own with a former "champ" and perennial top 10 heavyweight and gave Uysk (P4Per) his most competitive fight to date (IMO).
Ortiz best win - Jennings - has just been schooled by a prospect and prior to that ironed out by Rivas (10th). Ortiz fought him on the back of a loss. Ortiz best recent victory is over Hammer (a man Povetkin beat with ease who wouldn't rank in his top ten best wins). So whether we use recent form or backdated stuff Povetkin trumps Ortiz at every turn... unless, of course, we are crediting Ortiz for being Wilder's claim to fame (which is obvious).
So lets play that game.
Ortiz - best fighter faced = Wilder
Povetkin - best fighter faced = Wlad/AJ
Hunter - best fighter faced = Uysk (Povetkin at heavy)
Jennings - best fighter faced = Wlad
You see? We have a pattern forming here where Ortiz and Wilder are isolated whilst the others have all competed against first ballot HOF-ers and genuine champs.
My argument isn't about "what could have been" or "should have been" it's purely about "what has happened." Fact. And guess what? If you disagree with my reasoning that's cool and the gang. :)
And yet Jennings had just given Wlad a credible challenge the fight before Ortiz. So it's hardly fair to compare that Jennings to the one who has obviously faded and is on his way out, isn't it.
Not to mention that Jennings was the one who handed Perez his first loss. The very same Perez you tout as one of Povetkin's best wins.
The Povetkin win over Byrd was good, no doubt about that. But let's not forget that Byrd was two fights away from the end of his career and he was never truly a legitimate HW no matter how much some fans may have wished him to be. So you had a young, hungry prospect beating an old, overblown cruiser masquerading as a HW, while outweighing him by nearly 20 pounds and almost 10 years age difference.
Byrd is just a name on Povetkin's resume.
Again... I'm not arguing that Povetkin's resume isn't better than Ortiz's. Only that it's not the wide chasm you're making it out to be.
But like you said.... we can obviously disagree.
Perez was "robbed" against Jennings... knocked unconscious in a round by Povetkin. The manner of victory is a factor in the way we rate careers, right?
I haven't compared the "faded" Jennings with the "non faded" version. You have that impression because - @TitoFan - you've butted into a discussion I was having with Powerpuncher, who is arguing Ortiz current form is superior to Povetkin's. You are bringing up points that strengthen my argument whilst weakening his. I was disproving your claim that Jennings should be above Hunter.
I'm happy to debate any opinions but it needs to be kept in context because I have no interest in tantrums and tiaras.
It doesn’t matter so much “who” they faced if they lost. To an extent it does, but as I mentioned before, Ortiz’ only losses were against a top HW who he was beating before getting knocked out both times. Povetkin got schooled by AJ. It wasn’t close. And Hunter still easily got beat by Usyk. It’s not like he gave him a competitive fight. So again, we need to look at their wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Ortiz has basically easily outboxed anyone he has faced (including in his losses). It’s not like Povetkin or Hunter looked that impressive against each other. Hunter is still an unknown at HW while Povetkin has seen better days. Ortiz maybe too, but nobody has proven to make him look bad yet. The same can’t be said for Povetkin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Nor do I.
In fact, I have no interest in continuing our dialogue period. ;)
fenster is right, ortiz hasn't done shit
I see Briedis as Usyk’s toughest fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
If we go back to 2015 (even that is generous for a current evaluation of ranking), we have Ortiz with wins over Jennings, Thompson, Scott and Hammer. Povetkin has Perez, Wach, Duhaupas, Hammer, Price and Hughie Fury. You could give Povetkin the slight edge there. Ortiz has suffered 2 losses to Wilder in that time and Povetkin has the loss to Joshua and the draw with Hunter (which I felt he lost). Most here would still rate Wilder highly in the division. So, for me the ‘loss’ to Hunter (who was more than likely outside most top 10s coming into the Povtkin fight) just keeps Ortiz above Povetkin. I'm not disagreeing with your thought process, just giving my own considerations.
Good argument, it makes sense. I don't agree but it makes sense. If only everyone could stick to the debate instead of putting words in others mouths and inventing arguments never made. Unfortunately some here get a kick out of causing trouble and ruining threads, they have no real interest in debating boxing, just forum wars. Shame. :)
What a surprise. In future try to understand what is being debated before sticking your oar in. If you claim Jennings resume "runs rings" around Hunter's then provide some evidence/reasons. I would gladly have explored that debate. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanNor do I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
In fact, I have no interest in continuing our dialogue period. ;)
((stick to boxing on the boxing board, there's plenty of other boards for you to have your flame wars. thanks))
Tantrums? Tiaras? Flame wars? Oh my! :D Someone got up a little cranky this morning.Quote:
Originally Posted by FensterWhat a surprise. In future try to understand what is being debated before sticking your oar in. If you claim Jennings resume "runs rings" around Hunter's then provide some evidence/reasons. I would gladly have explored that debate. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFanNor do I.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
In fact, I have no interest in continuing our dialogue period. ;)
((stick to boxing on the boxing board, there's plenty of other boards for you to have your flame wars. thanks))
You would've gladly "explored that debate"? Me too. Would it have killed you to say that nicely? ;D
For the record, I seriously doubt you have any interest in debating anything with me.
Tantrums, tiaras, and flame wars. Hmm... pray tell what about my previous post brought this on?
"Butting in"? I was under the impression this was a public boxing board. I would think one can only "butt in" on a private conversation. But you tell me.
By the way, I DID stick to boxing on the boxing board. My argument was all about boxing.
Please show me one word I addressed to you here that was not about boxing.
Thanks.
My post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitoFan
Civil... non-combative. All about boxing.
Your response:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
Insulting, and provocative.
Again.... show me where it says I can't enter a discussion about boxing in a boxing board.
Also, show me where ANYTHING I SAID warranted your mention of tantrums, tiaras and flame wars.
Thanks.
@Spicoli
@Master
@Memphis
@Andre
I keep my dislike of you out of the boxing board. Can't you have the courtesy with everyone of doing the same?
this thread went gay.
Just Titofan being Titofan. As I predicted he'd throw a tantrum and not make one boxing related argument, just rant and rave at me then cry for help whilst playing the victim. Rinse and repeat, same MO on every board. If he was really interested in boxing talk he'd have explained why Jennings "runs rings" around Hunter but no, he was obviously never interested in anything but hysterically ranting at Fenster.
C'est la vie :)
One more chance, sport?
Totally. Let's keep it to boxing only and nothing personal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
Precisely. Anymore posts aimed at me instead of the topic will be deleted. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterTotally. Let's keep it to boxing only and nothing personal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ykdadamaja
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenster
No thanks. I'll pass.