What is the Art of boxing?

What is the Art of Boxing to you?

I appreciate the rough and tumble fighters like everyone else and love a good scrap..but like fine wine or a priceless painting what is the essence of boxing?

What fight, boxer or event set the scene to you and made you realise this is a professional sport with so many fundamentals..how can throwing x6 different punches be so special?

My heart strings will always pull on any boxer that has the ability to hit and not get hit and when watching in slow motion you can see the true beauty of boxing..

What makes it special for you?

boxing is this: punches are just shapes moving through space in the same way that chess pieces are just representations of shapes moving on a chess board. these shapes join up and form into patterns, and, these patterns too, form into shapes. those patterns, and the shapes they take on, merge and mesh with other patterns and their shapes to occasionally produce collisions. to box is to take all of your shapes and all of your patterns and design out of them all a collision course. done properly, you will only need to make one.

Just watch Ali, Robinson, or Monzon. they will show you what art is.

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

John T Ochs wrote a fabulous trilogy documenting the life of boxing legend Jack Hurley. The first book, The Fargo Express, focuses on Hurley and his most notable fighter, Billy Petrolle.
Towards the end of his career Petrolle fought a young guy that was known for his powerful right hand. The plan was to lure the guy into throwing his best punch, making him miss and countering with a right.
In the first round the plan worked and Petrolle scored a knockdown. After that the other guy boxed carefully, and was very careful about how he used his right hand. Until the 7th round when he saw an opening and fired one.
Petrolle slipped the punch and knocked the guy out.

After the fight Petrolle went to the other fighter's dressing room and found him crying. Petrolle consoled him, telling him it had been a good fight and that the Garden would have him back. The other fight shook his head.
"Its not that", he said."I feel so stupid because I knew all the time that you were trying to bait me into throwing a right hand. But you made it look so good I couldn't help it."

That is the art of boxing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

---

Yeah, the art of boxing was on display by Moorer against Foreman until...;D
To this day I say Rumble in the Jungle would never be duplicated-laying on the ropes waiting to tire a foe out isn't really that scientific.
I also think Leonard vs Duran wasn't so much about the art or science-as he never forced a guy to walk away after that.

Another great example of the art of boxing for me is Winky Wright vs Sam Soliman. After winky decimated a great of his era (Tito) with just a jab...by the end of his fight with Soliman, Winky was swollen red, much to Larry Merchant's chagrin, "Winky...you look like you've been in a fight":rolleyes:

Of all the guys that made him look normal was a guy who seemed to fall into landing punches and fall out of the way of getting hit.

Another one for me is when Nate Campbell was commentating an Ali Funeka fight...he cracked me up when he stated- "See guys like him, long and wiry looking, it looks like he is falling out of the way of a punch, not some specific move you can pinpoint. When I fought him it look like he would throw a punch way out of range, then somehow lands it, not because he is skilled. Guys who don't throw straight punches are hard to predict where it will land, based on where he launches his punches.- or guys who don't really master the art.

As far as the phrase itself, I'm ok with it. Guys like Floyd Mayweather overall is a textbook fighter who does it (everything) with precision, accuracy, timing, footing. He knows distance, can gauge his foe's speed, positioning. Which punches his foes throws that generates power- is it his hook or his uppercut.

I think Floyd is a computer-thinker in that sense which I could say he is an example of a fighter who knows the art of boxing.
To counter, so, too, does Bernard Hopkins, but he know some shady shit to do that -if done at the right time and position out of range for the ref-to see...well could that be called the art of boxing as well?:rolleyes:


Final example for me of a fighter who knows the art-but doesn't always translate to victories is Tim Bradley What a great Ring IQ he has, balance, speed. Yet all those muscles...and no one fears getting in the trenches to which is why Provodnikov to him to the brink...workman like performance put the ARTIST in his bathroom urinating blood.

Glencoffe is probably my All time favorite -in terms of a guy who can spoil a boxer's technique, by outworking, outhustle.

Heck I think a 190lb Marciano beats the highly skilled Usyk-by blue-collar beatdwon. Sometimes skills, talent aint enough.
Sometimes the art of boxing is spoiled by intangibles. O0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

---

Yeah, the art of boxing was on display by Moorer against Foreman until...;D
To this day I say Rumble in the Jungle would never be duplicated-laying on the ropes waiting to tire a foe out isn't really that scientific.
I also think Leonard vs Duran wasn't so much about the art or science-as he never forced a guy to walk away after that.

Another great example of the art of boxing for me is Winky Wright vs Sam Soliman. After winky decimated a great of his era (Tito) with just a jab...by the end of his fight with Soliman, Winky was swollen red, much to Larry Merchant's chagrin, "Winky...you look like you've been in a fight":rolleyes:

Of all the guys that made him look normal was a guy who seemed to fall into landing punches and fall out of the way of getting hit.

Another one for me is when Nate Campbell was commentating an Ali Funeka fight...he cracked me up when he stated- "See guys like him, long and wiry looking, it looks like he is falling out of the way of a punch, not some specific move you can pinpoint. When I fought him it look like he would throw a punch way out of range, then somehow lands it, not because he is skilled. Guys who don't throw straight punches are hard to predict where it will land, based on where he launches his punches.- or guys who don't really master the art.

As far as the phrase itself, I'm ok with it. Guys like Floyd Mayweather overall is a textbook fighter who does it (everything) with precision, accuracy, timing, footing. He knows distance, can gauge his foe's speed, positioning. Which punches his foes throws that generates power- is it his hook or his uppercut.

I think Floyd is a computer-thinker in that sense which I could say he is an example of a fighter who knows the art of boxing.
To counter, so, too, does Bernard Hopkins, but he know some shady shit to do that -if done at the right time and position out of range for the ref-to see...well could that be called the art of boxing as well?:rolleyes:


Final example for me of a fighter who knows the art-but doesn't always translate to victories is Tim Bradley What a great Ring IQ he has, balance, speed. Yet all those muscles...and no one fears getting in the trenches to which is why Provodnikov to him to the brink...workman like performance put the ARTIST in his bathroom urinating blood.

Glencoffe is probably my All time favorite -in terms of a guy who can spoil a boxer's technique, by outworking, outhustle.

Heck I think a 190lb Marciano beats the highly skilled Usyk-by blue-collar beatdwon. Sometimes skills, talent aint enough.
Sometimes the art of boxing is spoiled by intangibles. O0

---

Precisley. And exactly my point. Intangibles. Beautiful post bro.

And yes, 190 Blockbuster gives a BLUE COLLAR BEATDOWN (what a phrase!) to Usyk and everybody else at that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imp

What is the Art of Boxing to you?

I appreciate the rough and tumble fighters like everyone else and love a good scrap..but like fine wine or a priceless painting what is the essence of boxing?

What fight, boxer or event set the scene to you and made you realise this is a professional sport with so many fundamentals..how can throwing x6 different punches be so special?

My heart strings will always pull on any boxer that has the ability to hit and not get hit and when watching in slow motion you can see the true beauty of boxing..

What makes it special for you?

---

The art of boxing to hit and not to be hit sums it up spot I would say.👍

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

---

prediction is faster than handspeed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

---

Sensing in the split second not to get hit and then counter to hit your opponent is capitalising on their mistake.

Tell Mayweather that’s corny..Duh

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about what the art of boxing Is but try not to over think things?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuzo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

---

prediction is faster than handspeed.

---

That is what they say, timing beats speed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Master

That is what they say, timing beats speed.

---

thats right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuzo

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Master

That is what they say, timing beats speed.

---

thats right.

---

That's why Marciano was 49-0.
Slowest guy I ever saw, shortest reach I ever saw, but he landed, and landed I would say pretty well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

---

Sensing in the split second not to get hit and then counter to hit your opponent is capitalising on their mistake.

Tell Mayweather that’s corny..Duh

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about what the art of boxing Is but try not to over think things?!

---

What I meant by corny is that we should try to use our own words to describe that strategy rather than just repeat the same old words we have always heard about it and not get hit

Perhaps I was not clear enough. I am not over-thinking anything I am saying to think less is better. as Mike Tyson famously said all the best laid strategies and plans and techniques in the world go right out the window the minute the first punch is landed

@imp that's what I was saying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

---

Sensing in the split second not to get hit and then counter to hit your opponent is capitalising on their mistake.

Tell Mayweather that’s corny..Duh

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about what the art of boxing Is but try not to over think things?!

---

What I meant by corny is that we should try to use our own words to describe that strategy rather than just repeat the same old words we have always heard about it and not get hit

Perhaps I was not clear enough. I am not over-thinking anything I am saying to think less is better. as Mike Tyson famously said all the best laid strategies and plans and techniques in the world go right out the window the minute the first punch is landed

@imp that's what I was saying.

---

Cool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

---

Sensing in the split second not to get hit and then counter to hit your opponent is capitalising on their mistake.

Tell Mayweather that’s corny..Duh

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about what the art of boxing Is but try not to over think things?!

---

What I meant by corny is that we should try to use our own words to describe that strategy rather than just repeat the same old words we have always heard about it and not get hit

Perhaps I was not clear enough. I am not over-thinking anything I am saying to think less is better. as Mike Tyson famously said all the best laid strategies and plans and techniques in the world go right out the window the minute the first punch is landed

@imp that's what I was saying.

---

Cool.

---

A now elderly british boxing trainer told me years ago , boxers are born, not trained, all a trainer does is to make sure they are fit. I believe that, just look at Naz.

I am definitely staying away from the dictionary lest I put anyone to sleep by mistake but art is described as human creativity so are boxing moves, it's a skill. In order to make boxing art, you have got to be cunning, sly, tricky and make your application stick. Punches have to be delivered with a methodology that makes the winning fighter look dominant. He is in shape like Ishmael Laguna when he out sped Mando Ramos and when Kenny Buchanan out speed the speedster he was stop by hands of stone who worked the speedbag with his head and jumped rope from a squatted position and was underrated by other opponents with boxing skills that rivaled Ray Leonard in the beginning and then after a short losing streak came back with more movements. Ray Robinson had a left hook lead faster than anyone's jab in his era. Muhammed Ali danced the night away but really good dancing as per Gene Kelly and Fred Astaire was followed by a jab. Earl Spence fought his hardest fight with Shawn but choregraphed his response under extreme pressure and had his hand raised. When you talk about art it is a finished product but in boxing you are only as good as your last fight. So put it together and do it again.

James Buddy McGirt beating Simon Brown was pure art.

McGirt put on a master class in that one

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

---

Topic sentences from this thread really stand out for me come from the opener.

1. while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear,
2. The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit"


on #1. That is EXACTLY what comes to mind when I hear a fighter say they took their time and looked for openings -To me that is a lot of shit that has to happen. You pointed it out, what if the foe is in range from U landing but he is in range for him to land? (Think Paul Williams reach) that tells me if a sweet science fighter doesn't see ALL the necessary things to throw, land without being hit in response..well hell...he aint takin it then...We got the right to call it a boring chess match.

But:o….what if the Artist in the ring is Juan Manual Marquez? He isn't the fastest, the strongest, yet he is a sweet science mofo that makes me think in order for him to perform the art of boxing....he KNOWS he has to take one- to land, SO he has to find...or as you stated- be patient and wait for the opening that he can be hit with the least impact- countering with the greatest impact.
That can happen by timing a fighter or...patient in hoping the boxer makes a mistake- that a quick enough sweet science fighter can take advantage of- if/when the moment presents itself.

2. The Art of boxing -sounding corny is indeed a cliché. My example is Leonard vs Benitez or Leonard vs Hearns by way of my own eyes watching and Ray who detailed both fights.
We know Ray has stated- fighting Wilfredo was like looking in a mirror- so the only way he could win,...was to say F' the boxing...we are near equal so lets go mano y mano.
IMO -I define that as he threw the art of boxing book out the window in order to beat Wilfredo Benitez and Tommy Hearns.

With Hearns ---the KO artist using the art of jabbing his eye to a puffy-greyed mess -forcing Dundee to say "Ya blowin it kid So Ray...a sweet science fighter found no openings to hit---without getting hit.
So F' it take the fight to Tommy!!;D


It was Ali himself who said the rope-a-dope was invented on the spot- playing to your words of:
random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, in Africa with torrid humidity on both they asses!
Well damn, George the Mummy was slow, but never out of range to counter. Wasn't a fighter with bad balance, so Ali's Einstein idea was....lay on the ropes and HOPE;) this fool tires out from the humidity that is about to bring the storms.

I wager to say every art has a similarity- when it is done in reel time that is. Sometimes it requires what is said in American football as an audible (sometimes what was practiced against sparring aint gonna work come gametime).

And even if an art form is mastered, doesn't mean something intangible cant impede one from making use of it- I know that's what a black man said & felt on dancing to white art form. His name is Floyd Mayweather when asked on Dancing with the stars -what was most difficult that prevented him from winning- he said the rhythm. White folk got rhythm, but he experienced great difficulty in mastering it. It as in the art of that particular dance.

That means if he was in competition against a white woman in her near 50s...named Tony Basil who could do ballet, folk dance, pop dance...and helped get some bruthas on the camera by popping and locking...;D

Floyd had an artform...but was limited. Many blacks dont know it -cause we never tried their many art forms of dancing. He had the art of soul dancing, get ya boogie on, but wasn't versed with white rhythm the way Tony Basil was with blacks. Tony Basil's artform was more dominant....doesn't mean someone from the Lord of the Dance -shows her limits.:rolleyes:

To me that is the art of boxing- a (combination) of skills and (patience) to enact= what was learned in preparations...and sometimes it is on the spot- as with Leonard vs Hearns or Pryor who said he switched up midrounds because he said he knew he could NOT beat Arguello just slugging toe to toe...artform-that required an adjustment....

random,
lucky,
spontaneous openings that appear,
and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position
or on the wrong foot, which allows one...to implement the corny phrase of "hit and not get hit

and if one can't use their art form, because their foe is just as artistic...well dam! Holyfield-Bowe, Ali-Frazier, Castillo-Corrales, Marquez-Pacquiao...fuck the art...Let a fight break out!;D

https://youtu.be/NwAZoce7QHY
da' white woman gets her boogie on 2min into the 1975 clip!:dancer:O0

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dark Lord Al

James Buddy McGirt beating Simon Brown was pure art.

---

Excellent example Dark Lord.

Not all world champions make great trainers..Buddy did both.

https://youtu.be/7GlUPntOBbA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SlimTrae

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NoSavingByTheBell

For me, the Art of boxing is overrated; while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position or on the wrong foot, which allowed you to score a KO when it never wouldve happened had you been in the "correct" position at that moment. I have seen far too many flukes/miracles/inexplicable, beauteous, spontaneous actions and reactions in fights, that there would be NO WAY to practice it or plan for it. THAT is what boxing is for me, not so much an art (of course I am not discouraging the fundamentals of defense and footwork and training and learning the combinations or how to throw/adjust a jab, feints, etc.) but all that goes out the window "the minute the first punch is thrown" (I think we remember which all time great said that!)

The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit" (it's like telling someone the secret of success is to save money.......duhhh......Captain Obvious there), but rather it is SENSING IN THE SPLIT SECOND WHAT IS UNFOLDING, and CAPITALIZING ON IT. And THAT, my buddies, cannot be TAUGHT.

---

Topic sentences from this thread really stand out for me come from the opener.

1. while it is an art (think Ali, Robinson, Leonard, Mayweather) it is far too often random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear,
2. The Art of Boxing for me is not a corny "to hit and not get hit"


on #1. That is EXACTLY what comes to mind when I hear a fighter say they took their time and looked for openings -To me that is a lot of shit that has to happen. You pointed it out, what if the foe is in range from U landing but he is in range for him to land? (Think Paul Williams reach) that tells me if a sweet science fighter doesn't see ALL the necessary things to throw, land without being hit in response..well hell...he aint takin it then...We got the right to call it a boring chess match.

But:o….what if the Artist in the ring is Juan Manual Marquez? He isn't the fastest, the strongest, yet he is a sweet science mofo that makes me think in order for him to perform the art of boxing....he KNOWS he has to take one- to land, SO he has to find...or as you stated- be patient and wait for the opening that he can be hit with the least impact- countering with the greatest impact.
That can happen by timing a fighter or...patient in hoping the boxer makes a mistake- that a quick enough sweet science fighter can take advantage of- if/when the moment presents itself.

2. The Art of boxing -sounding corny is indeed a cliché. My example is Leonard vs Benitez or Leonard vs Hearns by way of my own eyes watching and Ray who detailed both fights.
We know Ray has stated- fighting Wilfredo was like looking in a mirror- so the only way he could win,...was to say F' the boxing...we are near equal so lets go mano y mano.
IMO -I define that as he threw the art of boxing book out the window in order to beat Wilfredo Benitez and Tommy Hearns.

With Hearns ---the KO artist using the art of jabbing his eye to a puffy-greyed mess -forcing Dundee to say "Ya blowin it kid So Ray...a sweet science fighter found no openings to hit---without getting hit.
So F' it take the fight to Tommy!!;D


It was Ali himself who said the rope-a-dope was invented on the spot- playing to your words of:
random, lucky, spontaneous openings that appear, and the dumb luck of being, say, in Africa with torrid humidity on both they asses!
Well damn, George the Mummy was slow, but never out of range to counter. Wasn't a fighter with bad balance, so Ali's Einstein idea was....lay on the ropes and HOPE;) this fool tires out from the humidity that is about to bring the storms.

I wager to say every art has a similarity- when it is done in reel time that is. Sometimes it requires what is said in American football as an audible (sometimes what was practiced against sparring aint gonna work come gametime).

And even if an art form is mastered, doesn't mean something intangible cant impede one from making use of it- I know that's what a black man said & felt on dancing to white art form. His name is Floyd Mayweather when asked on Dancing with the stars -what was most difficult that prevented him from winning- he said the rhythm. White folk got rhythm, but he experienced great difficulty in mastering it. It as in the art of that particular dance.

That means if he was in competition against a white woman in her near 50s...named Tony Basil who could do ballet, folk dance, pop dance...and helped get some bruthas on the camera by popping and locking...;D

Floyd had an artform...but was limited. Many blacks dont know it -cause we never tried their many art forms of dancing. He had the art of soul dancing, get ya boogie on, but wasn't versed with white rhythm the way Tony Basil was with blacks. Tony Basil's artform was more dominant....doesn't mean someone from the Lord of the Dance -shows her limits.:rolleyes:

To me that is the art of boxing- a (combination) of skills and (patience) to enact= what was learned in preparations...and sometimes it is on the spot- as with Leonard vs Hearns or Pryor who said he switched up midrounds because he said he knew he could NOT beat Arguello just slugging toe to toe...artform-that required an adjustment....

random,
lucky,
spontaneous openings that appear,
and the dumb luck of being, say, out of position
or on the wrong foot, which allows one...to implement the corny phrase of "hit and not get hit

and if one can't use their art form, because their foe is just as artistic...well dam! Holyfield-Bowe, Ali-Frazier, Castillo-Corrales, Marquez-Pacquiao...fuck the art...Let a fight break out!;D

https://youtu.be/NwAZoce7QHY
da' white woman gets her boogie on 2min into the 1975 clip!:dancer:O0

---

Slim, these Mega-Cluster posts contain so many GEMS, I cant even begin to shine more light on them. First, lets start with the 'Train. Yeah. I watched that show eveery Saturday morning for years, my initials are actually S.T., so my neighborhood stickball buddies would call me Soul Train when I was like 12 years old haha.

2;08 to 2;12 that woman sure puts on some slick, Im guessin she's Hispanic or Italian, ..... and my man at 5:38 HAHAHA aint that some cool the way cool USED to be.

On to boxing: #1--- SRL is an awesome example you used: I also hate it when the snobbery gets to "I took my time and looked for openings" like hell you did Sugar! Sugar Man just threw caution to the wind and went BOTH BARRELS BLAZING like the Great Marciano: BOTH BARRELS BLAZING. SRL took TH out of there man, no damn practiced nuances in any of that. I def relate to your "IF A SWEET SCIENCE FIGHTER DOESNT SEE ALL THE NECESSARY THINGS IN ORDER TO THROW......" hell yeah we have a boring ass snooze fest. BUT as you stated with Marquez, definitely..... take a lighter shot to counter with a heavier shot. :)

#2: the art of jabbing the eye til puffy and grey hahaha LMFAO and then Sugar justs.....BAM BAM BIFF!!!! Good night Tommy. Oh and Benitez too.

and hahaha LMAO HOPE-A-Dope punches himself out, as you say both they asses sweatin in Kinshasa with the Lumumba Boys right behind .....

Man you nailed what I was trying to say about intangibles Slim. Come gametime, ya better keep 3 eyes out, cuz dem 2 you used in sparring are gonna be cockeyed and crisscrossed the minute something goes wrong. IN other words, its random ad lib think on ya feet, get ready to rumble type stuff. Yet as you pointed out, it doesnt mean you cant roll with it USING what you practiced.

Hope a Dope...I'm steallin' that one!